9.0 General Discussion

[LemonDemonGirl]

Lol

Alright, they are setting up the Arbiter.


Judging from all other lines from that guy, the Arbiter is at least presented as a hardcore dictator.

Oh.... that doesn't sound good to me. Please don't like Bwonsamdi serve her

[Raetary]

Shandris is present in Ardenweald!
Looks like the Night warrior has some grim fate.

We interact with a previous Night warrior.
He died with his partner trying to siphon some of Elunes "dark power" from his body.

The guy says that for whatever-the-fuck-we-doing to work, we gotta and i quote "if we attempt it again, we must disperse the power among several vessels".
And we see the groves where each Night warrior is destined to end up in and we seek their aid.

My guess, we are gonna use them as said 'vessels' to disperse Elunes power into.


And that sums up the voice overs for now.
Nothing particularly interesting comes up after.

[EbaumsTipster]

And with that we have completed the set. There are now none of the main enemies left from TBC that hasnt been somewhat retconned. The only one i can think of that didnt get this treatment is the one-off bosses like Gruul, or Magtheridon.
Kael is redeemed, Vashj is redeemed, Illidan is redeemed. Even Kil'jaeden sorta got his redemption at the end of Tomb of Sargeras.

It's ALMOST LIKE THE WRITERS THINK TBC LORE WAS STUPID AND A MISTAKE...

God, I wish they realized that Cata was dogshit too.

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Existential tyranny is worse than mortal tyranny. If you must commit mortal atrocities to stop existential atrocities, it becomes the moral imperative to do so. It's very basic stuff. It's Illidan territory all over again.

Except that we see that the realms of Shadowlands and Arbiter's ordering thing is good and well purposed, just not without flaws.

[Sondrelk]

Existential tyranny is worse than mortal tyranny. If you must commit mortal atrocities to stop existential atrocities, it becomes the moral imperative to do so. It's very basic stuff. It's Illidan territory all over again.

Ahh, i see. Which is why Sylvanas sending those Nelves to superhell to fuel an anciennt evil that intends to wipe out the universe is the ideal solution.


Wait, I thought you meant that Sylvanas is somehow good, seems to me like her plan is still evil means for evil ends.
Besides, you have yet to give a concrete answer on what exactly she could possibly do at this point to convince you she is evil? Eat puppies? Starve orphans? Would she be evil if she unleashed an undead army on an unsuspecting world? Or maybe if she conspired to release an eldritch abomination to cause mass death? Honestly, what could she possibly do to top what she has already done? Her evil actions are on the level of Warhammer 40k, let alone a story like WoW that runs of cliche.

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It's ALMOST LIKE THE WRITERS THINK TBC LORE WAS STUPID AND A MISTAKE...

God, I wish they realized that Cata was dogshit too.

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Except that we see that the realms of Shadowlands and Arbiter's ordering thing is good and well purposed, just not without flaws.

They definitely do. I mentioned this was a possibility the moment Kael was mentioned in relation ot the Shadowlands, and I guess i was completely correct.
And they have already started retconning most of the egregious parts of Cata, those moments being Thrall and his ascent to green Jesus.

What i would like to see is the return of Yrel with Grommash, and possibly them finally explaining why we are supposed to sympathize with a known warmonger who only seemed interested in stopping his path of bloody conquest when he was personally threatened.

[Kereberus]

Where is Vash in the voice video?

[Raetary]

I demand a Shandris makeover.

NOW!

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Where is Vash in the voice video?

She doesn't have voice lines yet.
None of the prominent characters do.
It's mostly just NPCs pointing out that Vashj 'sent us'.

[EbaumsTipster]

I demand a Shandris make over.

NOW!

Her and Voss are definitely getting a makeover, it's a matter of when.

Rokhan... maybe???

[Sondrelk]

Shandris is present in Ardenweald!
Looks like the Night warrior has some grim fate.

We interact with a previous Night warrior.
He died with his partner trying to siphon some of Elunes "dark power" from his body.

The guy says that for whatever-the-fuck-we-doing to work, we gotta and i quote "if we attempt it again, we must disperse the power among several vessels".
And we see the groves where each Night warrior is destined to end up in and we seek their aid.

My guess, we are gonna use them as said 'vessels' to disperse Elunes power into.


And that sums up the voice overs for now.
Nothing particularly interesting comes up after.

Really looking forward to that plotline, I would guess it is the Night Fae endgame questline so hopefully it gets to eb quite juicy with big story bits. Though not having a dedicated endgame dungeon like what i assume Spires of Ascension is ot the Kyrians is a bit of a downer, though maybe it gets expanded in a future raid considering it is the covenant with the firmest stake on protagonist rights when it comes to defeating Sylvanas.

[Raetary]

There's also a lot of yelling about house "Morgrave" from Mal NPCs.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's lead by Alexandros Morgraine.

[Sondrelk]

Her and Voss are definitely getting a makeover, it's a matter of when.

Rokhan... maybe???

Ahh, Rokhan getting a makeover, always good for a laugh. Good to see this thread has not lost its sense of humor in these dark times.

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There's also a lot of yelling about house "Morgrave" from Mal NPCs.

Wouldn't surprise me if it's lead by Alexandros Morgraine.

I think it is Margrave, which a quick google search revealed to be an archaic title given to the prince of the Holy Roman Empire, so it will likely just be whoever is a leading figure in Maldraxxus.

[Maxilian]

And with that we have completed the set. There are now none of the main enemies left from TBC that hasnt been somewhat retconned. The only one i can think of that didnt get this treatment is the one-off bosses like Gruul, or Magtheridon.
Kael is redeemed, Vashj is redeemed, Illidan is redeemed. Even Kil'jaeden sorta got his redemption at the end of Tomb of Sargeras.

Well... they didn't get reconned, they just are not our enemies in dead.

[Sondrelk]

Well... they didn't get reconned, they just are not our enemies in dead.

Retconned in the sense that they were clearly evil in TBC, and now they are not. Which I first suspected when Illidan got his weirdly sudden redemption in Legion, and mostly got confirmed when i heard mention of Kael.
The implication here is that seeing as TBC is agreed upon to have pretty shoddy writing, especially when it came to using the Warcraft characters, Blizzard might have decided that what happened there isnt really that important, and that redeeming all the villains is the way to go,

[Maxilian]

Leather Nathria raid set (shoulders not yet in the files)

This makes me sad, i really wanted the Witch hunter helmet style for my hunter, though it made sense for Rogues just because of how those armors normally are.

[therumblings]

Existential tyranny is worse than mortal tyranny. If you must commit mortal atrocities to stop existential atrocities, it becomes the moral imperative to do so. It's very basic stuff. It's Illidan territory all over again.

No amount of mental gymnastics will ever be able to justify Sylvanas, your entire argument is dependent on unconfirmed speculation at best.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying Illidan would be a saint if he fed souls to Sargeras in order to break the cycle of the cosmos and reforge it without the void.

Even if your speculation is correct, it still does not even remotely make Sylvanas a hero.

[Maxilian]

Retconned in the sense that they were clearly evil in TBC, and now they are not. Which I first suspected when Illidan got his weirdly sudden redemption in Legion, and mostly got confirmed when i heard mention of Kael.
The implication here is that seeing as TBC is agreed upon to have pretty shoddy writing, especially when it came to using the Warcraft characters, Blizzard might have decided that what happened there isnt really that important, and that redeeming all the villains is the way to go,

Not debating Illidan, that may be a yes.

But Kael and Vashj? That's not a retconn, Kael is literally in a place that exist for evil people to redeem themselves.

Vashj is just not our enemy anymore, that's all, just like Sally Whitemane become our ally after dead. (though IMHO her change was a little more drastric)

And yes, i do agree that TBC story is.... lacking to say the least.

Note: At least evade the use of the word "retconn" cause it's not the right one.

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Ahh, i see. Which is why Sylvanas sending those Nelves to superhell to fuel an anciennt evil that intends to wipe out the universe is the ideal solution.

Do we already know that the Jailer objective is to wipe out the universe?

BTW the whole Sylvanas theme, even if her point is for the "greater good", is a "Means justify the ends" dilemma, and we know that the answer for that is No.

[Sondrelk]

Not debating Illidan, that may be a yes.

But Kael and Vashj? That's not a retconn, Kael is literally in a place that exist for evil people to redeem themselves.

Vashj is just not our enemy anymore, that's all, just like Sally Whitemane become our ally after dead. (though IMHO her change was a little more drastric)

And yes, i do agree that TBC story is.... lacking to say the least.

They are not evil though, despite their actions in TBC clearly being shown as such, meaning that one some level Blizzard decided that what happened in TBC wasnt important.
And yes, Kael is in Revendreth, which is essnetially purgatory. But he seemed quite content being evil in TBC, seeling his people out twice for power.
So yes, not quite a retcon per se, but when you look at it overall it is pretty clear that Blizzard at some point realized that TBC was a hot mess.

[huth]

Retconned in the sense that they were clearly evil in TBC, and now they are not. Which I first suspected when Illidan got his weirdly sudden redemption in Legion, and mostly got confirmed when i heard mention of Kael.

Who said they're not evil anymore? We're just not fighting them anymore.

[Yarathir]

Shandris is present in Ardenweald!
Looks like the Night warrior has some grim fate.

We interact with a previous Night warrior.
He died with his partner trying to siphon some of Elunes "dark power" from his body.

The guy says that for whatever-the-fuck-we-doing to work, we gotta and i quote "if we attempt it again, we must disperse the power among several vessels".
And we see the groves where each Night warrior is destined to end up in and we seek their aid.

My guess, we are gonna use them as said 'vessels' to disperse Elunes power into.


And that sums up the voice overs for now.
Nothing particularly interesting comes up after.

So Tyrande got a "power-up" and they didn't bother actually showing it actually making her more powerful, but they do want to emphasize the risks and probably depower her again as soon as possible.

Laughable.

[therumblings]

Why is it such a hard concept to grasp that Sylvanas is blatantly evil? She commits genocide for no reason other than to feed her evil master souls in order to throw the Shadowlands off balance and free the most horrific and evil beings in all of cosmic existence from hell.

[Yarathir]

This makes me sad, i really wanted the Witch hunter helmet style for my hunter, though it made sense for Rogues just because of how those armors normally are.

One day.. one day we'll get more lenient transmog rules that will allow hunters to use leather armor.

And it will be great.