9.0 General Discussion

[TheFirstOnes]

Ya sorry. My argument was not with you. It was with people saying that this expansion is doomed because one of the biggest selling points is Torghast and people are already getting bored of it. I was explaining why they are getting bored of it, and that it is a little early to say it will be boring when not everything is implemented.

Exactly. Sometimes, the community can be very weird and maddening.

[Vakir]

Tuning is always the last thing on the agenda for the beta though. What is pressing now is more broader changes to talents as a whole, or even base abilities of certain specs.
Talents are rarely, if ever balanced at this point, so I wouldn't focus too much in that.

I'm talking more about mechanics than numbers. Some talents (Demonic is a good example, Breath is a negative example) are so integral to playstyle for certain builds that it means certain talents really should be baseline or will be difficult to part with.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think you either need more sleep or coffee. You're just responding to people with their own points.

Or maybe a Snickers?

(Some people get mad when they're hungry, including me lol)

[Rathwell]

I can't understand the mentality of streamers. A lot of them can say some good criticisms, while others can just complain for the sake of complaining.

Negative opinions are good for your youtube algorithm and gets you clicks.

[gunner_recall]

Imma say, Soulbinds next week with Theater of Pain, followed by the Maw the week after.

Then after a week or 2 testing we enter the beta phase.

I mean...we can also just wait for Wednesday and we'll probably know.

[huth]

Negative opinions are good for your youtube algorithm and gets you clicks.

Don't talk to me if i'm hungry. Especially not if you look appetizing.

[Vynestra]

Many high end streamers are already starting to say Torghast gets boring after a while.

because there is nothing else they're doing on the alpha atm other than playing torghast nonstop, yes itll get boring, esp w/o a reward structure in place.

[kaid]

because there is nothing else they're doing on the alpha atm other than playing torghast nonstop, yes itll get boring, esp w/o a reward structure in place.

They are also running it over and over again with every class to do their streaming. I would be shocked if they did not get a bit bored at this point. The carrot is missing completely right now they are just doing it for the sake of doing it.

[DemonDays]

Ya sorry. My argument was not with you. It was with people saying that this expansion is doomed because one of the biggest selling points is Torghast and people are already getting bored of it. I was explaining why they are getting bored of it, and that it is a little early to say it will be boring when not everything is implemented.

No one said it was doomed? We said we were worried because it seems they're putting all their eggs in one basket.

The concerns about Torghast are completely warranted.


It's also completely warranted to be worried that endgame will just consist of Torghast, Mythic+, a raid and some shitty WQs.




This expansion is LIGHT ON FEATURES. No one can argue that. Most would argue it is a GOOD THING because they can spend their time iterating and improving upon EXISTING FEATURES.

So where are those improvements? Where's the improvements to WORLD CONTENT and WORLD QUESTS?

Hopefully we see some information soon.


Torghast can't carry an expansion.

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I'm talking more about mechanics than numbers. Some talents (Demonic is a good example, Breath is a negative example) are so integral to playstyle for certain builds that it means certain talents really should be baseline or will be difficult to part with.

This.

Far too many mandatory rows.

Talents need a pass over for every single spec. Ion needs to own his promises and baseline talents that are used by the majority.

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You do realize Blizzard's adding a limit towards the usage of this system yes? The "wait a bit" makes every piece of logical sense in context when you know the difference between testing and actually playing the fucking system on live.

Why should we wait a bit when the foundations of a system are completely fucked? (Covenants)

I'm not going to "wait a bit" if the slab on my newly built house is cracked and isn't structurally sound. I'm going to tell the builder it's fucked and to fix it.

The builder(Ion) is NOT going to say to me - "broooo just wait until the roof is on, the roof is going to fix the slab!!!".

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That's why you wait till Blizzard adds in the rewards dude. Come on now. Boredom or not, the whole point of Torghast atm is to test out systems and shit. The actual good shit will come when it's ready.

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The discussion is the lack of rewards for a system that's in its Alpha stage. I think I'm allowed to say "wait a bit" towards this topic.

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Literally this: Also note that NONE of the Max level content has been shown just yet. Idk why people are making stupid assumptions this early on in development.

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An Alpha lasting months should be a good sign dude, cause we're not even in the Beta stages of development yet. Want Blizzard to rush this expansion like they did BFA and WoD? Or do you wanna quiet down a bit and let them develop an actual good expansion like MoP, Legion, and TBC? You're complaining over an expansion that's not even half-way done yet in terms of baseline development.

Hell, we don't even know how the Pre-patch is going to look.

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It's almost as if Torghast is in a "systems" test rn, and that almost NONE of its core reward/lore features are in yet. Quit nitpicking.

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Also note that you're not going to be able to spam Torghast, or go in it as much as you want. You're only allowed to do it like 2-3 times a week, or some shit, I think.

I think you need to chill out and read these things through before you spam reply to everyone.

You seem to be agreeing with most of us or just repeating what we are saying?

I never mentioned that Alpha lasting months is a bad thing? What the fuck are you talking about? I said that people already getting bored of Torghast in 2 months is a bad sign because the content has to last TWO YEARS. Read between the god damn lines.

If now isn't the time to complain and submit feedback. Then when is champ?

Should we wait for launch again like the BfA shit show? Let's just let them spend another 2 years fixing their failures.

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"They don't care" Or its a not a priority, of course they care geez.





Define interesting talents because Its fairly certain people here will feel different on whats "interesting."

They care do they?

Why did BfA go the entirety of it's life cycle with completely dead talents and rows with talents performing 15-20% higher than others.

IE. Zero tuning whatsoever.


Sure sounds like they care hey.

Remember Aeluron, when someone challenges your idea of a perfect little Blizzard. Do try to respond to them.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeesh, this is going to be fun:

"Why should we wait a bit when the foundations of a system are completely fucked? (Covenants)" Not even out for testing yet.

"I'm not going to "wait a bit" if the slab on my newly built house is cracked and isn't structurally sound. I'm going to tell the builder it's fucked and to fix it." Except here the house is still in its early development building mode. AKA The game being in Alpha.

"The builder(Ion) is NOT going to say to me - "broooo just wait until the roof is on, the roof is going to fix the slab!!!"."" Ion is the lead game designer, but he isn't the only guy working on this feature. If you have issues with a system that's not even close to done, report it on the Alpha, or wait till others do so on the Alpha. That's the only way the team working on this is going to respond to these complaints.

"I think you need to chill out and read these things through before you spam reply to everyone." You're late on this by a couple hours, btw.

"You seem to be agreeing with most of us or just repeating what we are saying?" I'm not agreeing with you though.

"I never mentioned that Alpha lasting months is a bad thing? What the fuck are you talking about? I said that people already getting bored of Torghast in 2 months is a bad sign because the content has to last TWO YEARS. Read between the god damn lines." Uhm...

"The Alpha has been out for a few months.

This piece of content has to last 2 years." When you say it like this, you're implying it being in Alpha for this long and that "People are already bored with it" is a bad thing, despite the fact that it's not even close to done yet. Chill out.

"If now isn't the time to complain and submit feedback. Then when is champ?" If you wanna send feedback, report it on the Alpha. Quit doomsaying here.

'Should we wait for launch again like the BfA shit show? Let's just let them spend another 2 years fixing their failures." No one said that. Quit doomsaying a feature that isn't complete yet, however. Report your complaints on the Alpha, wait and test it more till release, and THEN get mad if shit doesn't go the way you or anyone else envisioned it.

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BFA is trash cause a lot of the shit they did was:

1. Rush 3 expansion worthy plot-lines.

2. Not listen to the feedback given. Or, the feedback wasn't actually given to them on the actual Alpha/Beta tests, but were instead shown on the official and fan forums, which is dumb. Report the shit on Alpha/Beta.

And 3. Give up with BFA by giving us Corruption gear.

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Also note that Shadowlands is given a MUCH larger development time than BFA. People have more than enough time to give out feedback for what's "boring", "broken", or just overall dull on the Alpha/Beta.

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"This expansion is LIGHT ON FEATURES. No one can argue that. Most would argue it is a GOOD THING because they can spend their time iterating and improving upon EXISTING FEATURES.

So where are those improvements? Where's the improvements to WORLD CONTENT and WORLD QUESTS?

Hopefully we see some information soon.


Torghast can't carry an expansion."

You just answered yourself there. You have to wait and see what the "improvements" are, because none of those are implemented yet in the Alpha. lmao

Also, Torghast isn't going to carry the expansion anyway. It's a very limited time feature.

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No, pitch black means pitch black. Jesus Christ.

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Ok then 10ch

That doesn't matter. 80% of the casual player-base isn't going to like playing through there, because it's so dark. Does't help that the Maw's terrain is full of ledges and cliffs.

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Or maybe a Snickers?

(Some people get mad when they're hungry, including me lol)

I personally love KitKat's more. But a Snickers will do.

[Yarathir]

That doesn't matter. 80% of the casual player-base isn't going to like playing through there, because it's so dark. Does't help that the Maw's terrain is full of ledges and cliffs.

It wasn't that long ago that you had plenty of people advocating for all zones to be truly dark.

[TheFirstOnes]

It wasn't that long ago that you had plenty of people advocating for all zones to be truly dark.

Outside of wanting a much better day/night cycle, sure. Otherwise, I don't think many would advocate for it outside of mere concept. You basically have Argus like terrain, but much darker. It's bad to make the zone dark asf cause of it.

[tristannarutofan]

This is where I am worried though. There is a lot good improvement but we are really close to Beta and there is still a LOT that needs work...

Classes are better than they are now.

And lets not act like playing the game is painful or something.

Like i wish dps monk had more variety in gsmeplay changed by talents. But that just means i wont have a second dps monk because they will play the same. It doesnt mean i hate dps monk

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In regards to torghast, yea u have to account for the fact ppl will be doing 1 or 2 runs a week on average, only after leveling and be doing dungeons raids pvp and quests in the maw.

Visually...i mean i knew the exact layout of drustvar 8 months ago. Ive done each dungeon in each expansion a hundred plus times. Thats part of an mmo , a new zone is a big deal a new dungeon is a big deal.

Like remember when the game was "good" and ppl would just raid old towns or run ppl through dungeons cus there was nothing to do but the same 4 dungeons and 3 10 player raids.

The fun is in interacting with the stuff the first time, then perfecting it and then u make your own fun. U playa new character or do the other faction or try a new content type or just go play something else.

I dont want to hear "this new feature seems repetative" when thats...like the genre of the game

[DemonDays]

Classes are better than they are now.

And lets not act like playing the game is painful or something.

Like i wish dps monk had more variety in gsmeplay changed by talents. But that just means i wont have a second dps monk because they will play the same. It doesnt mean i hate dps monk

They sprinkled a tiny bit of salt and pepper on the shit sandwich of Class Design.

Let's not pretend that more can't be done.

[Vakir]

They sprinkled a tiny bit of salt and pepper on the shit sandwich of Class Design.

Let's not pretend that more can't be done.

Shit sandwich is a bit extreme. The core rotations of most classes are actually good, but talents are lacking and a lot of mechanics some of those talents give should be mandatory adjustments to those same abilities. Your gameplay is roughly similar across all talent choices with the main differences often being some secondary stats that happen naturally over the course of the fight or cost/throughput changes.

I'd call it a bland sandwich of bread and some lunch meat that really needs toppings and condiments. Some things are coming in Baseline, like Gargoyle, Xuen/Niuzao/Yu'lon, Stampeding Roar, Wake of Ashes and Consec, etc. but the talents replacing them are usually pretty standard, and I don't know if they really need to nerf some things when they come in as baseline, like Wake being 3 HP instead of 5.

[huth]

It wasn't that long ago that you had plenty of people advocating for all zones to be truly dark.

Plenty? You could count them on one hand.

[Krazzorx]

Have there been any leaks or strong hints about the release date is and/or if they will announce it Wednesday? I don’t mean what people speculate what it could be but if there’s been anything on Blizz’s end

[Dracullus]

Have there been any leaks or strong hints about the release date is and/or if they will announce it Wednesday? I don’t mean what people speculate what it could be but if there’s been anything on Blizz’s end

Nothing from Blizzard, it's pure speculation. But it's very likely, Blizzard give this info ~3 months before launch, they know people schedule their vacation around it.

[Krazzorx]

Nothing from Blizzard, it's pure speculation. But it's very likely, Blizzard give this info ~3 months before launch, they know people schedule their vacation around it.

That sounds about right. BfA was announced 4 months before launch. Announced April launch July.

[Vasoka]

Who's hyped for Thursday??? Big announcements inc? Release date + beta maybe?