9.0 General Discussion

[Grimbold21]

Buy it and sell with a profit.

That's the risk with that tactic. You do it once and the fuckers come back and do it again.

[Nathanyel]

But then it couldn't be about the player escaping either. Because the Jailer could have just casually waved his hand to stop us.

So why didn't Denathrius kill us once we're in Revendreth? As the ruler of the realm, it would have been easy to pin this on the Devourers, or simply on the Rebels - after all, Draven "attacked" our carriage.
Us being able to leave the Maw is part of the Jailer's (revised) plan.

There's no way in hell that the Jailer, one of the oldest and most powerful beings in the Shadowlands that was likely there where the obelisk was made (or at least was familiar with the beings that created it), didn't know what it was for.

Obviously the purpose of the Waystone wasn't unknown. But how to use it.

Also, by the same logic the Jailer should have seen plenty Light users as strong or stronger than Anduin over the eons. It's not his individual powers that are relevant here.

[Dracullus]

That's the risk with that tactic. You do it once and the fuckers come back and do it again.

Then do it again. But you must know market value on your server to know if YOUR price isn't too high, undermine journal and tsm are good help for that.

[Verdugo]

So why didn't Denathrius kill us once we're in Revendreth? As the ruler of the realm, it would have been easy to pin this on the Devourers, or simply on the Rebels - after all, Draven "attacked" our carriage.

Do you know what game you are playing? Bad guys dont act logicaly.

[huth]

Obviously the purpose of the Waystone wasn't unknown. But how to use it.

Probably not even that. It just didn't work for anybody for eons, so it was assumed to be kaputt. Then this weird mortal comes saundering over and activates it without any knowledge or information beyond its position. It would be stranger if that didn't raise some attention.

For that matter, wouldn't Light fanatics actually be pretty common in the Maw? Being utterly convinced of your righteousness seems a good way to get the Venthyr to kick you down. Especially when you're also a Light worshipper.

[razorpax]

You're conflating multiple events. There are three distinct actions; having the Waystone react; having the waystone charge up; and using the Waystone to teleport out. You assume for no reason that being able to do one automatically confers the ability to do the other two. I could easily get some mechanism to react without being able to actually make it work. Just take a locked PC: Even if you don't know the password, you certainly can get it to react. Probably in the "wrong password" manner. For that matter, it's often still possible to get a broken machine to start up and then break down without getting any actual work done.

You're right that it is no big reveal that it can be used to get out of the Maw, as that was its purpose. But you're missing two things: a) It's supposed to be broken and unusable and b) being able to get a reaction and being able to activate it is not the same thing.

The Jailer flat-out states his surprise that we get any reaction at all and proceeds to take things in his own hands. He is then further intrigued when we cannot only get it to budge, but can actually get it to start up and work fully, if only for ourselves.



Wrong. The quote happens only seconds after the use, because the actual use is the teleportation, not the chargeup. It's made rather explicit that nothing except us can get through later as well, with it even being shown that the Jailer continuously attempts to send probes through that keep getting shot down. (You can just go to the Maw and wait a little near the Waystone. Look for the small eyes.)

On the other hand, Anduin's lightshow should be something he has already seen. They've been there for a while already, and Jaina explicitly states that wasn't her first escape.

That wasn’t her first escape
It wasn’t thrall’s first escape

Anduin was still locked up and getting banshee visits

Possible he didn’t have to use barrier until that and that’s the first time the jailer saw something counter HIS death magic

Also he used special chains on Anduin instead of generic debuff (it’s definitely intentional on blizz’s part)

[Sarethion]

he clearly both has the power to completely crush Anduin's lightshow easily

Sure, but if the Jailer is so powerful, why does he even need to use someone uncooperative as a weapon?

My theory is that whatever Zovaal wants to do requires powers different than his own death-based ones and if so, it's irrelevant how strong he is or whether he could easily overpower Anduin or not - he might still not have what it takes to do what he wants to do.

Which actually suggests that not only was he perfectly aware of Anduin's abilities, he was fully expecting him to pull that move.

Yes, Sylvanas probably told the Jailer about Anduin's abilities, but... you're assuming way too much saying that the Zovaal was "fully expecting" to see them used. We don't know how cosmic powers work and it's totally possible that if you go to a realm ruled by one force, your access to powers from a different one becomes harder.

If so, even if the Jailer knew about Anduin's powers, he might have been in the dark whether Anduin was strong enough to use them in the Maw or Shadowlands in general to the same extent as on Azeroth. And that could have been the reveal that happened in the cinematic - that yes, he can.

The 4 have been stuck in the Maw for what to them was apparently an extended period of time, with Jaina outright stating that she had repeatedly staged escapes, only to get recaptured over and over.

We don't know how many attempts there were or how many Anduin was a part of or what powers any of our friends called upon, thus... It's totally possible that Anduin didn't use the light shield move (or any more serious powers) until our encounter with the Jailer at the obelisk.

P.S. Merry Christmas

[huth]

Sure, but if the Jailer is so powerful, why does he even need to use someone uncooperative as a weapon?

Because despite all his power he's still stuck in the Maw. That was the entire point of putting him there to begin with, after all.

[Sarethion]

So why didn't Denathrius kill us once we're in Revendreth?

For the same reason he didn't kill Renathal after their enounter at the end of the campaign - he's arrogant and he probably didn't think that we're a threat. Also, we have no idea what would have happened if the Accuser didn't show us the truth during the Penitent Hunt or how long we'd stay alive if we hadn't switched sides.

Also, by the same logic the Jailer should have seen plenty Light users as strong or stronger than Anduin over the eons. It's not his individual powers that are relevant here.

True, but how many of them he had access to? How many were available to him when he was as close to escaping as he is now? I'd wager a guess that Anduin is likely the first potent light-user that meets both of these cryteria, which might be what makes him special to the Jailer.

Because despite all his power he's still stuck in the Maw. That was the entire point of putting him there to begin with, after all.

He's stuck, but his minions or allies aren't - if he was able to empower Sylvanas on Azeroth, he probably could buff any of them too.

So why not do that?

[Revamp Man]

Because despite all his power he's still stuck in the Maw. That was the entire point of putting him there to begin with, after all.

but the fact he has enough influence to send his forces out of the maw through other means makes his immediate escape a goal sure but he was searching for something in the leaders he took from azeroth (his line to baine) to help him with a bigger goal that has something to do with that which the first ones kept hidden. getting the key to leaving the maw is important but it is pointless without having the power needed to overthrow the other eternal ones.

anduin is going to be used possibly for making his own key?? i mean think about it
he has the loa
he has the dread lords
he has KT
he did have forsworn
he has the 4 powers of the eternal ones and might make a sort of key

i think he did plan this for arthas but got wrekt by him not being a goody two shoes like anduin

- - - Updated - - -

So why didn't Denathrius kill us once we're in Revendreth? As the ruler of the realm, it would have been easy to pin this on the Devourers, or simply on the Rebels - after all, Draven "attacked" our carriage.
Us being able to leave the Maw is part of the Jailer's (revised) plan.



Obviously the purpose of the Waystone wasn't unknown. But how to use it.

Also, by the same logic the Jailer should have seen plenty Light users as strong or stronger than Anduin over the eons. It's not his individual powers that are relevant here.

i dont think many users of the light end up in the maw especially those loved by the light like anduin

[Dracullus]

i dont think many users of the light end up in the maw especially those loved by the light like anduin

Currently, of course they do. But they are souls that are likely more vulnerable to Jailer, Anduin and rest were abducted still alive.

[rhorle]

So why didn't Denathrius kill us once we're in Revendreth? As the ruler of the realm, it would have been easy to pin this on the Devourers, or simply on the Rebels - after all, Draven "attacked" our carriage.
Us being able to leave the Maw is part of the Jailer's (revised) plan.

Because we need to stay alive in the story? The same reason why the Jailer didn't kill us all in the maw but kept the leaders alive to be eventually rescued. The same reason why he doesn't personally stand outside the obelisk and kill us for good when we return. Story. He could have been keeping up the act because he wasn't yet ready to reveal he was working with the Jailer. He could have just wanted to toy with us. Who knows.

But you can't read that much intent into actions that are clearly designed around the player staying alive to continue the story. Because sometime it is as simple as that. We had to stay alive.

[Revamp Man]

Currently, of course they do. But they are souls that are likely more vulnerable to Jailer, Anduin and rest were abducted still alive.

well i mean currently what souls do we know of that have a connection to the light like anduin

i have 3 maaaaybe

tyrion
anduin
arthas

1 had tossed the light aside
1 had used the final blessing of the light
1 is in torghast getting visits by the banshee

[Valysar]

So, what can it be ?

- Night Fae campaign's end ?
- 9.1 raid ?

[Monkaliciouz]

So, what can it be ?

- Night Fae campaign's end ?
- 9.1 raid ?

It's part of the Night Fae campaign.

[Varolyn]

One thing I do hope for, when we do eventually fight the Jailer, we fight in a place that is not Torghast. It's not that I mind the aesthetic of Torghast or the Maw, in fact I think it's done really well. It's just that were gonna be spending at least the next year in a half in Torghast, and it would be a little tiring having a whole raid tier dedicated to that aesthetic when we have seen it so much. So perhaps there will be another realm within the Maw that we'll travel to help mix things up a bit.

As for the next raid, I think it could be centered around Ardenweald. I did think at first it would be Maldraxxus... but given what will happen in about a month in that campaign, I think that storyline will be tied up with the sylvanas/Jailer raid. The Forsworn are mostly taken care of after Spires, and the Maw Kyrian can again be dealt with in a Jailer raid. So that leaves Ardenweald, who's storyline appears to be the most separate from the main plot of SL, at least for now.

[Dracullus]

Ardenweald is perfect for Drust mini-raid, but our next main goal is clear - save Anduin. For me anything different than Sylvanas raid in Maw for season 2 would be surprise.

[LemonDemonGirl]

I think Mueh'zala could/should appear in this Drust raid too

[Plehnard]

I think Mueh'zala could/should appear in this Drust raid too

Isn't Mueh'zala neutered by Bwon?

[LemonDemonGirl]

Isn't Mueh'zala neutered by Bwon?

Maybe, but I think he could break free at some point. Zalazane was captured by him, and he eventually did