9.0 General Discussion

[Revaniter92]

Yup. I guarantee you the majority of the playerbase was more excited to see Bolvar than Sylvanas, who we have already seen entirely too much of in recent times. And then he gets taken out like a chump without landing a single hit on Sylvanas. It reeks of terrible writing.

I just wonder how the entire story will be told. He is surely prepared for her, having undead ready to fight, wearing armour and having the lovely mace right there. Probably raising the new DKs before these events.


Btw Saurfang above Bolvar? Really?

[Raetary]

I mean, look how easily she took out Saurfang, who probably is more than a few levels above Bolvar.

Are you actually serious?
Saurfang above the fucking Lich king?

[ercarp]

I mean, look how easily she took out Saurfang, who probably is more than a few levels above Bolvar. The only reason he got a hit in is because 1.) she clearly was holding back and 2.) surprise split attack.

Its not "terrible writing", its people overinflating the power level of Bolvar. Having Bolvar kicking her ass would be terrible writing.

Saurfang is easily several levels below the Lich King, which is all the more reason why Bolvar should've at least landed a few hits on Sylvanas. The fact that she's walking away from that completely unscathed is unacceptable. I could literally write a better fanfiction than whatever the hell I just saw.

[Makorus]

Saurfang is easily several levels below the Lich King, which is all the more reason why Bolvar should've at least landed a few hits on Sylvanas. The fact that she's walking away from that completely unscathed is unacceptable. I could literally write a better fanfiction than whatever the hell I just saw.

Are you actually serious?
Saurfang above the fucking Lich king?

Yes. It is never stated that the Lich King is overtly powerful. Hell, it wouldn't even make sense for the Lich King to be powerful to begin with, because it was a originally a punishment. The main power of the Lich King is control over the Scourge, simple as that.

Arthas was insanely powerful because he had Frostmourne and absorbed millions of souls. Thats why the original plan is to steal Frostmourne away from him instead of just fighting him head on.

Thats why he literally just keeled over after Tirion shattered Frostmourne. Additionally, Bolvar has been sitting on the throne for 10 years now and didnt move until very recently. (He was still throne-bound in Legion).

[ercarp]

Yes. It is never stated that the Lich King is overtly powerful. Hell, it wouldn't even make sense for the Lich King to be powerful to begin with, because it was a originally a punishment. The main power of the Lich King is control over the Scourge, simple as that.

Arthas was insanely powerful because he had Frostmourne and absorbed millions of souls. Thats why the original plan is to steal Frostmourne away from him instead of just fighting him head on.

Thats why he literally just keeled over after Tirion shattered Frostmourne.

Then they shouldn't have made him look so badass. And they definitely shouldn't have sold fine prints of him looking badass. Who the hell is going to want to buy a fine print of a guy who gets taken out by a god-emoting emo banshee roleplayer?

[Raetary]

We literally saw what Bolvar was capable of cinematic, he doesn't need to be on Arthas' power lvl to be deemed powerful.
Saurfang would literally just die getting hit by the rocks Bolvar threw at Sylvanas.

[BarelyLegalBear]

I think that is a fair assessment of what will happen. The devs are not complete idiots, they know that a large majority of players cannot stand Sylvanas. And that even if they changed their mind they have completely written themselves into a position where the only way out for Sylvanas is dying.

To be specific, Sylvanas is basically Kerrigan and at the end when we realize she did everything for the greater good, Tyrande is going to assassinate her Arya style.

[Sondrelk]

Then they shouldn't have made him look so badass. And they definitely shouldn't have sold fine prints of him looking badass. Who the hell is going to want to buy a fine print of a guy who gets taken out by a god-emoting emo banshee roleplayer?

Definitely. If Blizzard wanted to make it more realistic like that just show that Bolvar's power is over the Necromantic, and just have him send wave after wave of undead after her, and then be more or less unable to fight back after she defeats them.

[Revaniter92]

Throwing rocks really looked like Star Wars Yoda vs Palpatine or anime style xd proving that Bolvar is powerful. Maybe not as much as Arthas, but still.

[Sondrelk]

To be specific, Sylvanas is basically Kerrigan and at the end when we realize she did everything for the greater good, Tyrande is going to assassinate her Arya style.

Nothing so far point ot a Kerrigan style twist though. And even then, Kerrigan got the free redemption card when we learned that she was under mind control and her expansion was all about realizing she had to stop the zerg from being evil, meaning that by the end of the Protoss expansion she was pretty close to antihero status.

Sylvanas is constantly stressed as being in control of her actions, and each one seems more heinous than the last. Her stated goal at the moment is literally killing everyone and then send them to hell. She has not had a single redeeming moment the entire expansion outside her love with Nathanos, and even that makes us like her less since Nathanos is such an unlikeable jerk.

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Throwing rocks really looked like Star Wars Yoda vs Palpatine or anime style xd proving that Bolvar is powerful. Maybe not as much as Arthas, but still.

What i would have done personally is have something where Sylvanas is using clones or something, and then show Bolvar defeat her several times in that form. That way you show Bolvar is awesome, and you get to eat you Sylvanas is OP cake too.

[Nyel]

Okay, the Covenant class specific skills are just glorified Essences. For some classes they are even almost identical and vary only slightly. The list for the Kyrian class specific skills is available and leaves me completely unimpressed. I hope their talent trees are worth more than that if not... I mean we don’t even get a new talent row.

[Sondrelk]

Okay, the Covenant class specific skills are just glorified Essences. For some classes they are even almost identical and vary only slightly. The list for the Kyrian class specific skills is available and leaves me completely unimpressed. I hope their talent trees are worth more than that if not... I mean we don’t even get a new talent row.

Still 15 more per class all counted, so i wouldnt think about it too much yet. For all we know that one is the boring levelling trait.

[Byzantium]

What i would have done personally is have something where Sylvanas is using clones or something, and then show Bolvar defeat her several times in that form. That way you show Bolvar is awesome, and you get to eat you Sylvanas is OP cake too.

You don't think the shitstorm would be even worse if Sylvanas started using kage bushin no jutsu all of a sudden?

[ercarp]

Okay, the Covenant class specific skills are just glorified Essences. For some classes they are even almost identical and vary only slightly. The list for the Kyrian class specific skills is available and leaves me completely unimpressed. I hope their talent trees are worth more than that if not... I mean we don’t even get a new talent row.

Didn't they say Legion Legendaries are making a return? I don't really care if the Covenants suck if the legendaries are fun.

[Nyel]

Still 15 more per class all counted, so i wouldnt think about it too much yet. For all we know that one is the boring levelling trait.

What do you mean? I thought the ones you get via pledging allegiance to a Covenant are the same you encounter while you’re leveling in that zone.

I mean it’s still 4 x 12 skills but they’re not gameplay changing as Ion mentioned. I really hope there’s more to it and to the class revamp than this.

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Didn't they say Legion Legendaries are making a return? I don't really care if the Covenants suck if the legendaries are fun.

They did but did they say Legendaries are class specific? If not and they are the same for everyone a la increase damage of skill x instead of some mechanical changes that Legion Legendaries offered it’s just another pretty generic addition.

[Raetary]

Didn't they say Legion Legendaries are making a return? I don't really care if the Covenants suck if the legendaries are fun.

They did.

They are gonna be progressed towards this time around instead of being rng drops.

[Makorus]

What do you mean? I thought the ones you get via pledging allegiance to a Covenant are the same you encounter while you’re leveling in that zone.

I mean it’s still 4 x 12 skills but they’re not gameplay changing as Ion mentioned. I really hope there’s more to it and to the class revamp than this.

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They did but did they say Legendaries are class specific? If not and they are the same for everyone a la increase damage of skill x instead of some mechanical changes that Legion Legendaries offered it’s just another pretty generic addition.

Didnt they literally say "Oh, we liked what the Legendaries did, but we hated how you acquired them, so we are going to make them craftable".

He specifically mentioned the Fire Mage Bracers.

Apparently its gonna be similar to the Mechagon Punchcards.

[Nyel]

Didnt they literally say "Oh, we liked what the Legendaries did, but we hated how you acquired them, so we are going to make them craftable".

He specifically mentioned the Fire Mage Bracers.

Apparently its gonna be similar to the Mechagon Punchcards.

I know that he used the Fire Mage bracers as an example. I’m impressed if we have a pool of like 5-10 real legendary effects to choose from akin to the Legion Legendaries. I’m still not sure if that’s the case or if we just get class unspecific Legendaries that improve our combat power but are not really gameplay changing. Maybe we’ll get more info today.

[Revamp Man]

They definitely have been busy, in any case. There's a crapton of new art in Shland.

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Now if only my sleep cycle wasn't completely effed to Hel and i only slept 3h tonight. Watching the Deep Dive is gonna be trying.

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Largely sounds like back to Legion to me, to be honest. Though there might be a weekly cap this time.

so it's not a form of azerite power per se but I feel like it's going to cost a ton of anima to switch covenants and to unlock different hero abilities

we will have to wait and see about the system but I am cautiously optimistic

On a slightly better note the monk ability from the covenant seems like it will be extremely powerful for single-target burst and the holy paladin ability is interesting the ret paladin ability will probably be 4 when a bunch of ads spawn to help out

[Sondrelk]

Also, isnt it nice to know that the faction war that was hyped up so much in BfA in the end turned out to be completely pointless. The expansion could have started just as easily with Old god shenanigans, and then have Sylvanas' plan to unleash N'zoth and his minions to cause death.
Blizzard could not even be bothered to tie in the faction war to the final boss thematically. They just gave up on it.

And the real kicker we just learned is that the faction war is not even conclusively over, we are back to exactly the same spot we were before Sylvanas started killing people.