9.0 General Discussion

[Marlamin]

Mildly relevant to the current discussion, I started mapping out a timeline of when zone work started on an expansion vs what patches were currently receiving public builds. I can't measure ideas/concepting and stuff so it is likely that actual work started on these before the first bar in the graph, but still interesting.

https://wow.tools/pub/timeline.php

Will be interesting to see where 9.0 starts!

[Dioporco]

Considering Wrath through MoP all fall in the ~7 months from early alpha to release range I'm not sure this theory really has anything to back it up.

Considering we are talking about the last 2 exp, since Ion said they want to make short expac, I dont see why looking and the "previous mindset" xpac will be usefull.

Also


Wrath of The Lich King

Beta Start : July 2008 ~~~ Release Date : Nov 2008


5 months between Beta and Release

Dunno when alpha started i found articles saying April 2008, if it is true so

Alpha Start : April 2008 ~~~~ Release Date : Nov 2008

8 months between Alpha and Release


Cataclysm

Alpha Start : May 3rd 2010 ~~~ Release Date : Dec 2010

8 months Cycle between Alpha and Release


So 8 months cycle






BFA got like 6 months cycle.


Seems pretty obvious that short xpac and frequent release can make rushed trashy game.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think he's gonna listen.

There is no need to listen when people cannot understand.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So 8 months cycle

And people were upset with that expansion and it had the most cut stuff(Wod being compared to it). So I don't think the more months just always means better.

Azerite

There's not much you could do with the Azerite system unless you get rid of it(Azerite Armor). You'd then have to rework the reward system because some of the rewards offered were some azerite armor.

[Dioporco]

The issue is that 8.3 is the last patch.

So we have to stick with this "mess" until pre patch, now obv they will not make a draught like SoO, but even from March to August, it is like 6 months of this, we are not in Legion were people could spend time gearing alt for the Tower Mage or min max gold profit from the table.


Vision are a joke for some classes, and others only need talent and gear. Once you have done Mad World you have done the "tower mage" and no need to do on other char afaik.

So assuming they want to release the xpac in the same period of Legion and BFA, August/Sept is the best bet, and so are 5 or 6 months of testing, they even have to do from scratch since nobody will play Shadowlands with Azerite System still in game at this point.

So the release has to be in Fall 2020 to have a chance to not be rushed like BFA.

[Kaesebrezen]

Wrath of The Lich King

Beta Start : July 2008 ~~~ Release Date : Nov 2008


5 months between Beta and Release

Dunno when alpha started i found articles saying April 2008, if it is true so

Alpha Start : April 2008 ~~~~ Release Date : Nov 2008

8 months between Alpha and Release


Cataclysm

Alpha Start : May 3rd 2010 ~~~ Release Date : Dec 2010

8 months Cycle between Alpha and Release


So 8 months cycle

Both of these are 7 months, not 8... MoP had 6 months of Beta (without alpha), and legion 9 months (though 8 is more accurate due to christmas/new year where alpha was offline)... Sure, BfA had "only" 6 months, but i'd argue one month more wouldn't have changed anything.

[Craaazyyy]

And people were upset with that expansion and it had the most cut stuff(Wod being compared to it). So I don't think the more months just always means better.

well they made a lot of changes in Cata.. lots of changes. Whether you liked them or not is a different question

[Nyel]

Of course we do, but that can also change (look at WC3R). Even still, not knowing how far the game is along currently and making assumptions based knowing little is incredible dense. 6-7 months of testing is absolutely plenty, and like i said, it goes on how they utilise that time. Biggest issue with BfA having a bumpy start was them pretty much ignoring a large chunk of the feedback, so we'll see how it goes this time around.

6-7 months of testing is indeed what we're heading towards which puts the release date to October / November which is realistic. Anything before that date is not going to happen either. Q4, not Q3.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

well they made a lot of changes in Cata.. lots of changes. Whether you liked them or not is a different question

A lot of things good some were iffy. It was a big expansion considering what it was doing.

[Nyel]

A lot of things good some were iffy. It was a big expansion considering what it was doing.

If 4.3 wouldn't have been such a sh*tshow Cataclysm would have been fondly remembered. For me it's on par with Legion, just slightly below TBC. Cataclysm itself was pretty... good. 4.3 was not. And 4.1 was neither, but 4.0 and 4.2 were great imho.

[EbaumsTipster]

The issue is that 8.3 is the last patch.

So we have to stick with this "mess" until pre patch, now obv they will not make a draught like SoO, but even from March to August, it is like 6 months of this, we are not in Legion were people could spend time gearing alt for the Tower Mage or min max gold profit from the table.


Vision are a joke for some classes, and others only need talent and gear. Once you have done Mad World you have done the "tower mage" and no need to do on other char afaik.

So assuming they want to release the xpac in the same period of Legion and BFA, August/Sept is the best bet, and so are 5 or 6 months of testing, they even have to do from scratch since nobody will play Shadowlands with Azerite System still in game at this point.

So the release has to be in Fall 2020 to have a chance to not be rushed like BFA.

They really don't care about the last patch not being able to sustain players. See Year of Siege and HFC, both were similar.

They arent' going to ruin yet another expansion just to get some more players sooner, they already did that with BFA.

[EbaumsTipster]

You lists of false hot takes is ever growing, thoght you learned your lesson after eternally btfo with your BfA predictions and how blizzard would fix everything in "beta"

I seriously don't care, lol.

[razorpax]

If the Covenant races would later on become allied races Blizzard would have already announced that because it would have drastically increased pre-orders and sparked a lot more interest in Shadowlands overall. Additionally it doesn't make that much sense to bring anything from Shadowlands over to the "real" world. Plus why would you distribute the Covenants between factions in the end? Three huge Nos for Covenants as allied races imho.

because blizzard totally did not say "vulpera arent going to be allied races"

[EbaumsTipster]

If the Covenant races would later on become allied races Blizzard would have already announced that because it would have drastically increased pre-orders and sparked a lot more interest in Shadowlands overall. Additionally it doesn't make that much sense to bring anything from Shadowlands over to the "real" world. Plus why would you distribute the Covenants between factions in the end? Three huge Nos for Covenants as allied races imho.

If Blizz announced them as ARs then people would complain that they are not there at launch. As well as the faction thing you mentioned, it would screw up expectations for them.

Better to surprise release them onto the factions and get some rage there, but not as much as if you said "yeah they'll be ARs" and then tell people LATER that they'd be divvied up between factions.

Though anyone that thinks the blue spirit healer angels lead by Uther are going to go on Horde is actually an idiot.

[THEORACLE64]

are you a joke account or something? you need to shut up because people told them azerite is shit and they didnt chang it, bootlicker

If you care to read anything I've posted you'll see that's exactly what I've said in regards to the length of this alpha + beta test (if it's going to be around ~6 months). One thing they lacked during the BfA test was listening to player feedback and managing their time better i.e. putting the major systems to the forefront.

My point at the moment is towards the naysayers, in that people are talking like they know every single detail about this expansion and the new systems when we know very little currently (which is normal between announcement > alpha and is something that'll change soon). Overall point about people complaining that ~6 months isn't long enough (without even knowing the release date) is that if they learn from their mistakes during the BfA test then it'll be fine, bc it's not about the amount of time it's how it's utilised.

[Onikaroshi]

If you care to read anything I've posted you'll see that's exactly what I've said in regards to the length of this alpha + beta test (if it's going to be around ~6 months). One thing they lacked during the BfA test was listening to player feedback and managing their time better i.e. putting the major systems to the forefront.

My point at the moment is towards the naysayers, in that people are talking like they know every single detail about this expansion and the new systems when we know very little currently (which is normal between announcement > alpha and is something that'll change soon). Overall point about people complaining that ~6 months isn't long enough (without even knowing the release date) is that if they learn from their mistakes during the BfA test then it'll be fine, bc it's not about the amount of time it's how it's utilised.

Problem with azerite in general is they got it to us too late on Beta to change anything and oversold it. They sold it as a replacement for artifacts and it was nowhere near close to that.

[Sondrelk]

Problem with azerite in general is they got it to us too late on Beta to change anything and oversold it. They sold it as a replacement for artifacts and it was nowhere near close to that.

They sold them as replacements to the Legiondary idea of equippable talents. Which it kinda is, though not as powerful or meaningful as that system, which some might argue is a good thing.
There is also the problem of what in the world Blizzard could possibly do to actually attempt to fix Azerite. The problems with them are not things that can be changed by balancing numbers or teaking droprates. Fixing it would essentially require development on them to almost start over completely.

[EbaumsTipster]

They shat out Azerite because they need a fast way to give players extra abilities while underestimating RNG and systems fatigue settling in. They simply didn't give enough of a shit about BFA.

[Onikaroshi]

They sold them as replacements to the Legiondary idea of equippable talents. Which it kinda is, though not as powerful or meaningful as that system, which some might argue is a good thing.
There is also the problem of what in the world Blizzard could possibly do to actually attempt to fix Azerite. The problems with them are not things that can be changed by balancing numbers or teaking droprates. Fixing it would essentially require development on them to almost start over completely.

They actually sold it as a replacement to both the artifact AND the legendaries, which it really fell flat on. At least until 8.2.

They even said that the Powers we got in beta where "just leveling powers" and the raid ones would be better, they weren't.

[TomatoBisque]

They actually sold it as a replacement to both the artifact AND the legendaries, which it really fell flat on. At least until 8.2.

They even said that the Powers we got in beta where "just leveling powers" and the raid ones would be better, they weren't.

Did they actually say this, or is this just something the community came up with so they could be mad about it later?

[EbaumsTipster]

I liked Legion well enough but I really don't like the precedent it set. If an expansion now doesn't feature a trillion new features it's a flop and filler like SL, while ignoring how BFA failed because it was bloated with fundamentally shit features.

We can't get another expansion like TBC or Mists again without it being called boring because they aren't "Legion level".