9.0 General Discussion

[Makabreska]

Sylvanas and Nathanos are definitely some kind of social experiment by Blizz to create very personal, hateable villains. You saw it a little bit with Gul'dan (arrogant, escaped his fate once, killed Varian) but the undead pair are that idea on steroids.

Arrogant x5, abusive or manipulative to the player character, huge death counts, insult all sides nd the players were unable to lay a finger on them or deal with them properly aside from kicking them out of the Horde. They're written as so horrible and temporarily untouchable that players think they're self inserts/Blizzard stand ins for abusing the player (or in the case of Sylvanas, some people GENUINELY believe she's a girl power "SJW" character and that's why she can't be touched and is so powerful).

They are absolutely being coy about how they're dealt with in Shadowlands, which has led to doomsaying about Kerrigan or Sylvanas winning somehow, but I think it's much more likely that they are treating fighting Nathanos and Sylvanas as huge events for the playerbase. And if Nathanos can be killed by the players in the first launch raid you know that that's going to make headlines.

They didn't spend so much money on these characters bullying players and making them unhappy irl to forget them and or redeem them. They're emotionally charged punching bags and players will absolutely celebrate the chance to kill them.

Amen that.

[Raetary]

I can see why Bwonsamdi would want to live in Ardenweald. It's beautiful! Are the Priest animations available yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imj89L1BbAM

The current animation is pretty meh.

But considering it's lacking the night fae color scheme and it's lack of quality, i imagine it's just a placeholder.

[Celvira]

I made a post a few days ago in the Paladin thread regarding Ashen Hallow, but thought I'd share in the 9.0 thread too just to get more feedback. But yeah, I'm basically hoping Paladin's Ashen Hallow gets a CD reduction to be more in line with the other, longer class covenant cooldowns (such as Demon Hunters "The Hunt" having a 3 min long CD). 4 minutes is an insane amount of time to wait to use a signature covenant ability, which is made all the worse when it has a cast-time on top of its lengthy timer.

Please Blizzard, reduce its CD to 3 minutes or at the very least remove the cast-time on Ashen Hallow!

[LemonDemonGirl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imj89L1BbAM

The current animation is pretty meh.

But considering it's lacking the night fae color scheme and it's lack of quality, i imagine it's just a placeholder.

Yeah it's not very good.

Looks kind of looks like a Druid's Faerie Fire, but less green. Hopefully they'll change it and make it more blueish

[tristannarutofan]

You know I don't have an idea what Ion could be revealing on the 9th aside from maybe Nathanos as a boss in Nathria. Everything else for launch seems kind of out in the open.

Maybe they're making a big change to Covenant abilities or removing Torments? I assume it's only getting a livestream if it's good news (they've been careful about that this time around).

blue post said they were looking deeper into stuff, not revealing anything new or special, i believe*

* i mean i know it for a fact, but maybe somewhere else they said something different?

[Sondrelk]

Honestly if the covenant abilities are meant to add flavour to classes, none of them should be on very long cooldowns to begin with.

I think they should have a fairly hefty cooldown, the biggest tuning issues for abilities is not the bability on its own, but rather how they interract with certain abilities. And letting the Covenant ability cooldowns get too short means that you start running into those issues where you have to integrate it into your cooldown, which is problematic when it comes to creating a build around it.

4 minutes is definitely too long though. 3 minutes is already pushing it with the DH one, but honestly, no covenant ability should probably have a cooldown longer than 2 minues unless it is literally one meant to only be used once a fight, like the old Hunter Stampede.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Here's the new house and barn models.





Doesn't look specific enough to be Elwynn or Andorhal, but I think someone mentioned that there's a Silver Hand insignia somewhere? Could be Andorhal: there is a piece of data in Alpha that mentions an item that teleports you to Uther's Tomb.

*Hope for a 10.0 revamp intensifies*

[Sondrelk]

Here is the thing. Am I meant to be a paladin when playing in Shadowlands or am I meant to be a Kyrian Paladin or a Venthyr Paladin? Covenants seem to be the gameplay focus, it is a big deal how it will be hard to shift between them so if they are to be impactful then they should impact gameplay in a transformative way rather than just having a numeric advantage in a specific situation. If they are not to do so, why make such a fuss about them in the first place.

I would say that you would be a Paladin that chose to side wit hthe Venthyr, or whatever have you. Changing your gmaeplay based on your alignment isnt really that strong an idea in lore. The version where you get a fitting ability "on-loan" from the covenant is far more fitting I feel. Afterall, it isnt like the covenants give you training in using your ability to its fullest potential necessasrily, it is more that they give you an ability that is powerful to use.

Secondly, if the abilities are mostly disconnected from the rest of the rotation then they are easier to tune, and therefore it is easier to prevent the discussion regarding some of them being OP. Or at least, harder to argue that stance, which is more conducive to making the choice interesting.

[Dracullus]

*Hope for a 10.0 revamp intensifies*

I said many times that Cata style revamp is pointless, but I wouldn't mind if EK revamp would be 'new' continent for 10.0 content. It would be something like this:

- Outland->Draenor style revamp, all build from scratch
- massive changes to zones and their borders (mostly join small zones)
- around 60% on launch, rest as patch zones
- Stormwind as Alliance hub
- Silvermoon as Horde hub
- Ironforge as neutral hub in last big patch
- old EK available through caverns of time portal.

[Lahis]

- Ironforge as neutral hub in last big patch

Why would Dwarves betray the Alliance?

[Lahis]

What I'd have done is not add new abilities but rather have the Covenant somewhat alter a core ability instead so that it can be transformative, then use the relics to balance things out. As I've said elsewhere, lateral instead of vertical changes to gameplay.

Some covenants do alter existing abilities for some classes. Others add a new ability of questionable usefulness.

It is a mess that is all over the place.

[Sondrelk]

Some covenants do alter existing abilities for some classes. Others add a new ability of questionable usefulness.

It is a mess that is all over the place.

The ones that alter your rotation in any way are the ones that should be changed ideally. Because any future bonuses, interesting set pieces or whatever will now have to be made in such a way to keep in mind that it will benefit some covenants more than other.
Take the Venthyr Hunter one. The only one that actually changes your rotation by giving you a chance to get a free Kill Shot. Because of that ability you now have to consider the talent that buffs Kill Shot, as well as any future intentions to buff Kill Shot, or otherwise create interesting rotational changes around it. Whereas the Night Fae one can easily be tune higher or lower.

[Dracullus]

Why would Dwarves betray the Alliance?

Who the hell said anything about betraying. It would just fit I they want to do whole EK expansion. Same could be done to Thunder Bluff in potential Kalimdor expansion. Or they could be raids or something. For sure I doubt Blizzard would make 1 hub for one faction and 2 for another.

[Lahis]

Who the hell said anything about betraying. It would just fit I they want to do whole EK expansion. Same could be done to Thunder Bluff in potential Kalimdor expansion. Or they could be raids or something. For sure I doubt Blizzard would make 1 hub for one faction and 2 for another.

There is zero reason to let Horde into Ironforge, or Alliance into Thunderbluff.

So why would Dwarves and Taurens betray their respective factions to turn their cities into neutral hubs?

[literallysame]

Who the hell said anything about betraying. It would just fit I they want to do whole EK expansion. Same could be done to Thunder Bluff in potential Kalimdor expansion. Or they could be raids or something. For sure I doubt Blizzard would make 1 hub for one faction and 2 for another.

But like why not give the Forsaken Stratholme then to even out the hubs? 2 for Horde, 2 for Alliance.

[Hellspawn]

We still have said giant sword in Silithus, so how about a Kalimdor expansion.
* Hyjal as Alliance Mainhub (Ogrimmar for Horde)
* Saberons/Botani as potential Allied races or new enemies
* Mag'har and their Gron placed in Stone Talon Hills.
* Changes to lots of area due to healing or the sword
* Kultiran Station in Dustwallow Marshes (with Boralus assets)

[Sondrelk]

We still have said giant sword in Silithus, so how about a Kalimdor expansion.
* Hyjal as Alliance Mainhub (Ogrimmar for Horde)
* Saberons/Botani as potential Allied races or new enemies
* Mag'har and their Gron placed in Stone Talon Hills.
* Changes to lots of area due to healing or the sword
* Kultiran Station in Dustwallow Marshes (with Boralus assets)

Could see that, though I think it would definitely be too early, specifically because of Silithus acutally. Needs time to let that wound heal and for people to resettle it unless you want to make it the main story.

For an EK kingdom I always envisioned something like:
* Easter Plaguelands mostly cleansed, and the story of that and Western Plageulands concerning the Forsaken and their differing beliefs in whether to reocncile with the Lordaeron refugees that also want to return there, or whether to attempt laying claim to it by virtue of Stratholme being abandoned.
* Focus on rebuilding the various settlements after the recent disasters, specifically things like Westfall being ravaged by the Legion.
* Dark Iron civil war between thsoe loyal to Moira/Dagran II, and those who want a return to Ragnaros.


Though I guess there might not be as much fertile ground for growth as there is in Kalimdor, mostly because that is the area both the Alliance and Horde can have loads of interesting stories, as well as there being more untamed lands that could be filled with the enemies that escaped from Draenor.

[Halfaheart]

I thought we were going to be dealing with Nathanos prepatch or hes dying in the book. Doesn't seem to really be room for him in Shadowlands

[Nagawithlegs]

Besides the Night Elves existing, Gorribal (the giant sword) and the potential plot hook of the Botani and Saberon, there really isn't that much pointing to Kalimdor being relevant to the story.

I guess you could say Azshara running around could lead to a Naga invasion on Highborne areas. And maybe Night Fae (+other Shadowlands people) could come visit and do something... but the majority of plotlines and focus seems to be in EK for the future.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought we were going to be dealing with Nathanos prepatch or hes dying in the book. Doesn't seem to really be room for him in Shadowlands

His data was listed as a boss (like in a dungeon or raid) and Castle Nathria is currently 9/10 bosses (and has been for a while). Considering his theme of looking like Dracula/Van Helsing he'll probably be there.

[Cosmic Janitor]

His data was listed as a boss (like in a dungeon or raid) and Castle Nathria is currently 9/10 bosses (and has been for a while). Considering his theme of looking like Dracula/Van Helsing he'll probably be there.

My guess is something happens to him in the book and they keep it out of the client to not spoil it.