9.0 General Discussion

[TheFirstOnes]

No, Aggramar made the Breakers to balance out the Botani. Due to this, Orcs are also of Titanic origin, being descendants of the Breakers.

Ah, you're right. Yeah, maybe an over-spread of Life could be an issue. But on Azeroth, and in the main life realm, the Emerald Dream, that's probably not an issue now.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Ah, you're right. Yeah, maybe an over-spread of Life could be an issue. But on Azeroth, and in the main life realm, the Emerald Dream, that's probably not an issue now.

This seemed to be unique to Draenor(Much like life on different planets are different). Doesn't mean Botani are not dangerous, it just means life develops differently on different planets(Argus has the Draenei and well Azeroth has all of us).

[TheFirstOnes]

This seemed to be unique to Draenor(Much like life on different planets are different). Doesn't mean Botani are not dangerous, it just means life develops differently on different planets(Argus has the Draenei and well Azeroth has all of us).

Yeah. It's probably been unique. Kinda didn't help that the Planet was mostly all life when Aggramar found it. Meaning, there was probably a lack of Death there.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Varimathras uprising was before Sylvanas started working with the Jailer (which was after killing herself at the end of WotLK).

You know this brings up an important question.

Who was the voice in Battle for Undercity Wrath Edition? We assumed at the time it was Sargeras but could it have been the Jailer?

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So, basically, here's what's going on:

The Jailer set all of this up, caused the Nathrezim to manipulate every cosmic threat, which lead to the Legion, the Death of the Pantheon, the Light and Void aiming for Azeroth in their conflict, the creation of the Scourge, etc...

We defeated the Scourge, the Legion, and the Old Gods, and now the Jailer is aiming for our world. We beat him (Cause, of course we do), and then we gotta deal with the Light and Shadow...

Light and Shadow are 10.0. Simple.

I say they're 11.0 with a bridge expansion setting up their threat first but either way yeah the writing is pretty clear here. Jailer set up the cosmic powder keg and intended to blow it up to the advantage of Death, but we're gonna kill him and have it blow up in our faces instead.

[Hitei]

You know this brings up an important question.

Who was the voice in Battle for Undercity Wrath Edition? We assumed at the time it was Sargeras but could it have been the Jailer?

It would almost certainly still be Sargeras, not just because I doubt they had the Jailer plotted out back in Wrath, but because even in retrospect it doesn't make much sense for Varimathras to be openly speaking about the Jailer when their whole thing is deep cover (what if Sarg happened to be listening or watching?). Not to mention that the voice talks about failure when he can't keep the portals (which are summoning demons, i.e. presumably to the twisting nether or Argus or something) stable.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I hope he kinda pokes fun at the idea of how we have no idea what's coming. That said... I hope Death isn't so easily beaten or that there's more to Death then mr. Zovaal.

[TheFirstOnes]

You know this brings up an important question.

Who was the voice in Battle for Undercity Wrath Edition? We assumed at the time it was Sargeras but could it have been the Jailer?

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I say they're 11.0 with a bridge expansion setting up their threat first but either way yeah the writing is pretty clear here. Jailer set up the cosmic powder keg and intended to blow it up to the advantage of Death, but we're gonna kill him and have it blow up in our faces instead.

Maybe 10.0 could be about Light and all, but I doubt it. Reminder: BFA pinned 3 Expansion plots in 1, and Legion pinned 2 Expansion plots in 1. 9.0 probably leads into the Light, which then leads into 10.0 with the Light AND Shadow fighting across Azeroth. This could then lead into the Dragon Isles with the Infinite Dragonflight, a Yrel starter raid, a Sargeras mini-raid where you fight him at the Seat of the Pantheon, an Infinite Dragonflight raid, maybe an Old God space raid, and the Void Lord raid.

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It would almost certainly still be Sargeras, not just because I doubt they had the Jailer plotted out back in Wrath, but because even in retrospect it doesn't make much sense for Varimathras to be openly speaking about the Jailer when their whole thing is deep cover (what if Sarg happened to be listening or watching?). Not to mention that the voice talks about failure when he can't keep the portals (which are summoning demons, i.e. presumably to the twisting nether or Argus or something) get destabilized.

Yeah, it's still Sargeras tbh. His voice in 7.3 and in the Battle for Undercity are the same. Also, Varimathras is tortured and shit by the order of Sargeras. So, like...

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I hope he kinda pokes fun at the idea of how we have no idea what's coming. That said... I hope Death isn't so easily beaten or that there's more to Death then mr. Zovaal.

It's probably Zovaal. Reminder, he was banished for "treachery". There is a HIGH chance he started this shit, even before he was banished.

[Phunkle]

Jailer was just lucky that Sargeras lost. If Sargeras succeeded, the entire universe would have fallen to his Dark Pantheon and overwhelming Legion armies.

Do you really think it is just a coincidence that all these cosmic powers (Light, Void, Death) are making their move right after Sargeras defeat? The creepy kid in Drustvar even said something like "with the defeat of the burning ones, the balance has been broken".

I never leveln an alliance toon, what kid are you talking about?

[formerShandalay]

I never leveln an alliance toon, what kid are you talking about?

I think they mean this:

Mysterious Whisper whispers: The burning ones kept balance. Lost now... lost.

That is a whisper you might get at Barrowknoll Cemeteryin Drustvar. There's a voice whispering there and there are also creepy ghost kids running around, sometimes talking to the player character. The Horde warcampaign leads you there too, to find a grave in the Questline 'Operation: Gravedigger' (and the quests that follow).

[GoKs]

People will be butthurt over literally anything. Rationally people understand that what is important is whether it makes sense in context.

Anduin being a raid boss because he turned evil and wants to destroy the Horde does not make sense for instance, but Anduin being a raid boss because he is being influenced by the light after turning to it for guidance for years does.

A Stormwind raid with the tyrannical light storyline would be amazing. Travel through the Cathedral of light, through the catacombs, maybe punch our way throug ha wall into the unused Stormwind vaults, ending up in or near the castle.
Then you give players some really kickass Alliance themed weapons and I would certainly be happy.

Yea siege of Stormwind inc... But I dont think we will fight Anduin, in the Shadows Rising book the author was forced to put in a scene where a slither of void ran down his arm when he got frustrated, I think maybe he will learn some how that the light isnt all good, and to fight it he needs the void, kind of a balance? Just guessing here.

[Chickat]

Shadowlands is getting interesting. More so than i thouht it would.

[TigTone]

I now know why Sylvanas became such a bitch. All that time she was stuck in Limbo, she had to endure the horrible SFX of that fucking flight path and it probably got stuck on her vision for the rest of her life.

Honestly the only power so far that doesn't want to kill or control us seems to be Life itself. So Team Life? Heck it's Life so the preferred form of worship will likely be a lot of sex. I am ready for a sacrifice

hmmm to much life isn’t better than the others.

Just ask ancient Draenor. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sporemound

[Gaidax]

I hope he kinda pokes fun at the idea of how we have no idea what's coming. That said... I hope Death isn't so easily beaten or that there's more to Death then mr. Zovaal.

I really suspect Zovaal is not really the big bad in the context of latest revelations. He might be in the knows, but is he really the big bad master there?

[tristannarutofan]

I really suspect Zovaal is not really the big bad in the context of latest revelations. He might be in the knows, but is he really the big bad master there?

The person he is reporting to is the venthyr leader. It said "thats the reason u SIRED us" that word just means Fathered but is almost never used in modern writing except for vampires.

Its much more likely that The Sire was working with zorvaal from the get go and managed to keep from getting caught. That would mean the jailer would have a way to manipulate things from his cell.

The jailer is the kingpin and the Sire is basically an allied mob boss or lacky pretending to be the new mob boss

[TigTone]

I really suspect Zovaal is not really the big bad in the context of latest revelations. He might be in the knows, but is he really the big bad master there?

As far as we know he’s just eternal one like Primus and the others but he seems to be stronger than the others.

Same way Sargeras was the strongest of the titans.

But I agree with you, it’s could certainly be possible he might be influenced by the First Ones what ever they may be.

[tristannarutofan]

I dont think the threat of them succeeding is nearly important for the overarching story as the idea of each great cosmuc force having agents that might trick them into making mistakes.

For instance the light invasion could come from lorthorax using his position ti convince the naaru that xera was right and they need to do simething about this planet full of powerful entities that killed her.

From the text they lured sargeras to that void world so they could corrupt him, and fel was scary enough to infiltrate before sargy became one of them

[Varodoc]

Jailer is the main villain of Shadowlands. But he won't be the main villain of this whole cosmic conspiracy. That'll be one of the First Ones, the original creators of the cosmos who are more ancient than everyone else.

[Raetary]

Honestly the only power so far that doesn't want to kill or control us seems to be Life itself.

Eh... that really is only the case because the beings of life are 1. ordered by Freya and 2. the lack of spirit on Azeroth makes life rather tame.

Ancient Draenor afterall was infested by the Evergrowth and if it wasn't for Aggramar creating Gronn it would've consumed everything on the planet.
Azeroth could've suffered the same fate if it wasn't for the world soul.

[Gaidax]

Jailer is the main villain of Shadowlands. But he won't be the main villain of this whole cosmic conspiracy. That'll be one of the First Ones, the original creators of the cosmos who are more ancient than everyone else.

That's what I think too. I don't know if it's one of the first ones or whatever, but it seems this whole setup is much bigger than just Shadowlands. They might be setting us up to chase after the real badboi all over the major cosmic forces bases of operation for good 3-4 next expansions.

[zaxlor]

So, basically, here's what's going on:

The Jailer set all of this up, caused the Nathrezim to manipulate every cosmic threat, which lead to the Legion, the Death of the Pantheon, the Light and Void aiming for Azeroth in their conflict, the creation of the Scourge, etc...

We defeated the Scourge, the Legion, and the Old Gods, and now the Jailer is aiming for our world. We beat him (Cause, of course we do), and then we gotta deal with the Light and Shadow...

Light and Shadow are 10.0. Simple.

Which opens up for dropping Horde VS Alliance and allowing players to "choose" to side with the Light or Shadow/Void.