9.0 General Discussion

[Dracullus]

So Blizzcon before Covid was planned for today.. I wonder what was original plan for SL release. Probably 13th October, I guess they planned so many cloak upgrades to last until pre-patch day and 20/27 October would be out of picture with that Blizzcon date.

[Syegfryed]

Between the nice ship they have and the two wackier characters on Exiles Reach, does anyone else think Blizz is trying to make the Forsaken more likeable/pitiable for new players?

BFA's storyline for them might make more sense to a new player that way. Arguably moreso than the old lore diehards that think all of them are inherently bad.

blizzard suddenly see the problem of villain bating the horde all the time, and now have to do things like that

[Nagawithlegs]

I think what made Suramar successful was a combination of things:

A) interesting fantasy setting: not a rare thing in WoW, but there aren't THAT many fleshed out elf cities in Warcraft (or modern entertainment culture for that matter)

B) sense of belonging in a "mini-world": Suramar City is essentially it's own zone and dwarfs the rest of its own ACTUAL zone in both importance and how much fans care about it, because it has its own culture, rules, gameplay, music, aesthetics... etc etc. In the questline you're mostly in the city and you have your own unique gameplay systems within the city as well.

C) a tight storyline with its own localized cast: this one is BIG: people are sick to death of the same handful of characters through the whole expansion (see: racial leaders, neutral heroes, villains) and Suramar was interesting in that you were introduced to a bunch of Nightborne with good characters, and then interacted mostly with Nightborne for that whole questline until around the end.

I think Blizz tried to bake in parts of this into both Zandalar and Kul Tiras, both of which have a giant city and a zone themed around said respective city, and even moreso in Shadowlands where each ZONE is its own mini-world with separate cultures. Unlike BFA as well, in Shadowlands you cana actually BECOME A PART of each of these worlds through Covenants without having to racially become a part of that world. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any questline in Shadowlands as tightly written as the Nightborne insurrection (even the Venthyr rebellion is fairly short and simple in comparison) but the lasting influence of Suramar is definitely apparent in how each zone has its own isolated culture, city, races, etc in a way that goes beyond "theme park" zones where the zone's aesthetic is skin deep.

Suramar City felt like its own mini world and it was great. People that are begging for a literal Suramar 2 are never going to get it because I highly doubt there will ever be another questline solely focused within a massive city, for whatever reason, but Blizz is definitely keeping Suramar in mind this expansion.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Never say never, you just might get proven wrong. Thats my experience.

[Toybox]

Do you get Heart of Azeroth at level 10 on new characters? My level 10 mage twink is already blasting, but I wanna kick it up a few notches

[huth]

Do you get Heart of Azeroth at level 10 on new characters? My level 10 mage twink is already blasting, but I wanna kick it up a few notches

No, and you need to be 40 to use it at all.

[Sondrelk]

I think what made Suramar successful was a combination of things:

A) interesting fantasy setting: not a rare thing in WoW, but there aren't THAT many fleshed out elf cities in Warcraft (or modern entertainment culture for that matter)

B) sense of belonging in a "mini-world": Suramar City is essentially it's own zone and dwarfs the rest of its own ACTUAL zone in both importance and how much fans care about it, because it has its own culture, rules, gameplay, music, aesthetics... etc etc. In the questline you're mostly in the city and you have your own unique gameplay systems within the city as well.

C) a tight storyline with its own localized cast: this one is BIG: people are sick to death of the same handful of characters through the whole expansion (see: racial leaders, neutral heroes, villains) and Suramar was interesting in that you were introduced to a bunch of Nightborne with good characters, and then interacted mostly with Nightborne for that whole questline until around the end.

I think Blizz tried to bake in parts of this into both Zandalar and Kul Tiras, both of which have a giant city and a zone themed around said respective city, and even moreso in Shadowlands where each ZONE is its own mini-world with separate cultures. Unlike BFA as well, in Shadowlands you cana actually BECOME A PART of each of these worlds through Covenants without having to racially become a part of that world. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any questline in Shadowlands as tightly written as the Nightborne insurrection (even the Venthyr rebellion is fairly short and simple in comparison) but the lasting influence of Suramar is definitely apparent in how each zone has its own isolated culture, city, races, etc in a way that goes beyond "theme park" zones where the zone's aesthetic is skin deep.

Suramar City felt like its own mini world and it was great. People that are begging for a literal Suramar 2 are never going to get it because I highly doubt there will ever be another questline solely focused within a massive city, for whatever reason, but Blizz is definitely keeping Suramar in mind this expansion.

I think with BfA Blizzard tried to recreate some of the essential elements of Suramar without considering how they worked. In Legion Suramar was a richly detailed city you entered all the time for quests and general world quests, not to mention dungeons. In BfA the cities are just kinda there, and while you do get to experience them to some extent there isnt really much incentive to walk around doing stuff in them other than the occasional world quest and if you just want to RP.

[Nagawithlegs]

I think with BfA Blizzard tried to recreate some of the essential elements of Suramar without considering how they worked. In Legion Suramar was a richly detailed city you entered all the time for quests and general world quests, not to mention dungeons. In BfA the cities are just kinda there, and while you do get to experience them to some extent there isnt really much incentive to walk around doing stuff in them other than the occasional world quest and if you just want to RP.

And I think the problem arose when they realized they didn't know how to do a storyline entirely within those cities. Probably a result of dev resources shifting or they felt the need to make the player travel all over the area for the campaign (which I don't think was necessary).

[lolmmofuture]

shadowlands...

not a good feeling

[Kereberus]

shadowlands...

not a good feeling

Beta is fine.

[Greyfang]

shadowlands...

not a good feeling

Top tier quality analysis there.

[Syegfryed]

i think im in a off-shot, cause i hate suramar with all my strength, not just because it was all elves, but i hate in general

[Greyfang]

i think im in a off-shot, cause i hate suramar with all my strength, not just because it was all elves, but i hate in general

I liked it as a one-time experience. The story is pretty good and the characters compelling. But having to go through that with X alts... just no.

[razorpax]

I liked it as a one-time experience. The story is pretty good and the characters compelling. But having to go through that with X alts... just no.

I did it on one alt and never again

It’s nice but not alt friendly..... and that’s going to be the maw

[Cosmic Janitor]

After playing around with Torghast a bit I have to say Blizzard should have copied FFXIV's save file system for deep dungeons. Running each layer on it's own kinda defeats the whole feeling of Torghast since you never get an interesting build going (at least the 6 times 6 floors I tried), since by the time you have a cool combo you face the endboss and start over. This will probably be better in the "long mode" (can't remember the name right now), but doing just 6 floors of which 1 is the boss floor anyway is kinda lame. I get why they broke it up, because it simply takes too much time otherwise, but having something of your first run carry over to your second is the kind of thing that is missing here, even if it was just a handfull of anima powers.

Edit: Also Torments (I thought they removed them?) are a new entry to the list of "most annoying things ever added to WoW", you can't even go quickly afk to get the door or something if some rubbish keeps constantly spawning if you are ooc.

[Nyel]

I did it on one alt and never again

It’s nice but not alt friendly..... and that’s going to be the maw

Except that the Maw looks awful and there are no real quests nor an interesting storyline. No mounts = slower movement is just the cherry on top.

I agree, Suramar as a one time experience is amazing, but for alts it's too much. But for me the one time experience counts way more (e.g. it should basically come with an automatic alt unlock or something like that, if you want to).

[Makorus]

Except that the Maw looks awful and there are no real quests nor an interesting storyline. No mounts = slower movement is just the cherry on top.

I agree, Suramar as a one time experience is amazing, but for alts it's too much. But for me the one time experience counts way more (e.g. it should basically come with an automatic alt unlock or something like that, if you want to).

A zone does not need real quests or an interesting storylines to be a good zone. After all, the community keeps circlejerking Timeless Isles even to this day.

While it was in a bad state, with them adding stuff that allows you to upgrade the zone, so to say, I feel like it is heading in the right direction.

The real issue is there is no reward incentive. I feel like removing Torghast keys was maybe not the right choice.

[huth]

The real issue is there is no reward incentive. I feel like removing Torghast keys was maybe not the right choice.

Problem is that makes it less of an incentive and more of a required chore.

[Nyel]

A zone does not need real quests or an interesting storylines to be a good zone. After all, the community keeps circlejerking Timeless Isles even to this day.

While it was in a bad state, with them adding stuff that allows you to upgrade the zone, so to say, I feel like it is heading in the right direction.

The real issue is there is no reward incentive. I feel like removing Torghast keys was maybe not the right choice.

I'm curious to see how the update to the Maw will look like, because it's pretty much mandatory at this moment. It's just not fun or interesting (yet). Suramar, even before Insurection, was in my opinion a great zone which greatly profited by its quests and narratives. Timeless Isle is fondly remembered because it was kind of fire and forget, easily accessible and loot everywhere. I think it was quite bland and inferior to the fantastic Isle of Thunder.

[Makorus]

Problem is that makes it less of an incentive and more of a required chore.

Suppose you got a point.

I feel like the Conduit upgrade tokens and Gem Slots are good and all, but it's not quite there yet.