Page 40 of 41 FirstFirst ...
30
38
39
40
41
LastLast
  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post

    But, there are other Loas who are unrelated to Death, that you don't account for. The Shadow Hunter, or Witch Doctor, wouldn't follow just one Loa, but several. Only the Priest follows one Loa.

    *sigh*

    That's the whole point of a voodoo and Loa class. It calls upon several different Loas to gain different powers and abilities. That's what's so unique about it. Confining it to just one Loa not only is against the lore, but completely butchers the archetype.
    But that's not what we're talking about here. We aren't talking about covering all of the Loas. This is just an idea for how to build a potential Necromancer class. In this case, having a focus on Bwonsamdi and only Bwonsamdi. If we want to we can accomodate other Loas into another class or other classes. This doesn't need to be wrapped up all into a single class.

    Look at current classes. The concept of using the Light isn't wrapped into a single class. Aspects of it are spread in the Paladin and Priest classes, Or using Fel. Aspects of it are spread into the Warlock and Demon Hunter classes. If we want to bring the concept of the Loas into the game, there's no reason that it too couldn't also be split. In this case, I just happen to think that having a chunk of it in a Necromancer class would be fun. Largely because I would love any potential Necromancer class not to be limited to just the traditional 'Scourge' style, which I find boring AF.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Well, Kel'thuzad has them in HotS.
    So you've established that KT can have Death Knight abilities, since that's where these abilities originated from.

    Well, I'd argue that it goes against the conventional creation of a new class, as it is usually based on a Hero unit, with lesser units being integrated into it, and not the other way around. So, it would be a Lich class with necromancer themes.
    I'd a agree that a Necromancer can encompass the Lich
    Odd that you're contradicting yourself in your own response, but you could have easily acknowledged this from the beginning instead of a cherry picking statements out of context and using easily refutable excuses.

    I wouldn't say that is necessarily a decisive pattern, but more of a consequence.
    So sure, let's call it a consequence. And that's exactly how we could regard new classes being based on WC3 heroes. Just a consequence of being Warcraft related.

    Necromancers can be a class, and having ties to represent a WC3 Lich/Kel'thuzad would be the consequence. It absolutely works.

    The question is, wouldn't you make it even more like a Death Knight if you add a Frost aspect to the Necromancer?
    So even if you personally don't like DK and Necromancer both having Frost, DK already share that with Mages who both have thematic connections to Liches, and have a Unholy connection through Covenants. At the end of the day, having closer connections still doesn't make them the same. Blizzard is absolutely fine with overlap, and the real question is why you think it has to be mutually exclusive.

    You're still not getting it.
    Class additions. Meaning, from the Death Knight onward.
    I don't claim vanilla classes to be based on WC3 heroes.
    In your own words, I'd consider this consequence more than a pattern. It's arbitrary and pointless to discuss when it's not a limit to what future classes can be based on.


    Necromancer is a well defined archetype that is not yet playable in WoW, and are not represented by any existing class in the game. All you've been doing is cherry picking statements that you try and twist into an excuse, rather than consider that Necromancers are perfectly fine as a playable class if you took the time to sit down and look at how classes are designed and how the Necromancer would fit.

    -Edit- Just noticed the mod post, clearing out the non-Necromancer related stuff.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-20 at 07:05 PM.

  3. #783
    Feel bad for the OPs in these threads. Have all the fun sucked out by the same people arguing about semantics and other equally fictional entities when Blizzard willingly just invent any old shit they think is cool, and can create reasons why things are/aren't.

  4. #784
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Falkeshall View Post
    Feel bad for the OPs in these threads. Have all the fun sucked out by the same people arguing about semantics and other equally fictional entities when Blizzard willingly just invent any old shit they think is cool, and can create reasons why things are/aren't.
    Regardless of people’s personal views about this, I will always say that the OP makes excellent class concepts. Cant wait to see what he comes up with next.

  5. #785
    I love the concept! Do you have one for Dark Rangers? If we got necromancers I wouldn't be so sad about losing out on Dark Rangers.
    On silken ebony wings the harbinger of death arrives.

  6. #786
    with the effort you have exerted on this. This looks like it was done by a professional.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Not every dark spellcaster out there is a Necromancer.
    Unrelated to that particular quote, but I was doing digging into the Maldraxxus Gladiator stuff and found this related to Necromancy. Fairly recent stuff, back in July. It's the Red Shirt Guy's interview with Danuser.

    https://games.no1geekfun.com/red-shi...n-shadowlands/


    Sure, the necrolords can also create soulless constructs from body parts. The highest art of necromancy in Maldraxxus, however, remains to transfer a soul from body to body. However, you cannot bring back a dead soul. The type of necromancy Arthas used is different from the magic used by the necrolords. The Scourge is the creation of the Burning Legion. The demons stole only a small part of the knowledge of the necrolords in the Shadowlands. Basically, the demonic necromancers are botchers who did not understand the philosophy of the necrolords.


    This is a clear separation of the Scourge-based Necromancy that Arthas and the Death Knights used, and the greater 'Necrolord' Necromancy that Kel'thuzad had since aimed to usurp through trying to become the leader of the House of Rituals/Primus of Maldraxxus.

    And to tie it further with my previous statements about Runeblades being the source of DK powers rather than traditional necromancy, the article continues

    The creation of undead such as banshees or death knights, on the other hand, is part of the supreme discipline of necromancy. Arthas could only work this kind of magic with Frostmourne. The rune blade was forged from the jailer’s chains and decorated with the runes of lordship. These powerful runes are the key for soul transfers between reality and the Shadowlands. At the same time, they ensure that the respective souls submit to the will of their master – as in the case of Arthas and Sylvanas.

    So a clear and distinct difference between Death Knights and the Necrolords. I think that's sufficient to consider a Necromancer Class since they would be the ones seeking to master the highest art of Necromancy.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-09-30 at 09:45 PM.

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't think I wrote that, and you failed to quote me, but if I did, I have the feeling you cut off important context.


    Is it really that hard for you to produce links instead of having me guess where you took your quotes from?

    Unfortunately for you, I found the actual quote, which you altered: "Since the Liches showed unswerving loyalty to their master, Ner'zhul granted them control over the furious elements of the cold north. Now, Liches wield frost magic along with their own considerable necromantic spells." [1][2]

    You changed "Ner'zhul" to "Lich King", which makes a huge difference.


    And why not?


    Considering I never claimed "every dark caster is a necromancer", I fail to see the relevance of this red herring.


    LINK.
    YOUR.
    SOURCES.



    Dude, stop acting obtuse. I'm not going to repeat myself.


    Actually, "nature" is not defined, considering lightning, wind and earth are all "nature magic". A rock to the face has the same damage type as a gust of wind and a lightning strike. Think about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    But that's not what we're talking about here. We aren't talking about covering all of the Loas. This is just an idea for how to build a potential Necromancer class. In this case, having a focus on Bwonsamdi and only Bwonsamdi. If we want to we can accomodate other Loas into another class or other classes. This doesn't need to be wrapped up all into a single class.

    Look at current classes. The concept of using the Light isn't wrapped into a single class. Aspects of it are spread in the Paladin and Priest classes, Or using Fel. Aspects of it are spread into the Warlock and Demon Hunter classes. If we want to bring the concept of the Loas into the game, there's no reason that it too couldn't also be split. In this case, I just happen to think that having a chunk of it in a Necromancer class would be fun. Largely because I would love any potential Necromancer class not to be limited to just the traditional 'Scourge' style, which I find boring AF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So you've established that KT can have Death Knight abilities, since that's where these abilities originated from.



    Odd that you're contradicting yourself in your own response, but you could have easily acknowledged this from the beginning instead of a cherry picking statements out of context and using easily refutable excuses.



    So sure, let's call it a consequence. And that's exactly how we could regard new classes being based on WC3 heroes. Just a consequence of being Warcraft related.

    Necromancers can be a class, and having ties to represent a WC3 Lich/Kel'thuzad would be the consequence. It absolutely works.



    So even if you personally don't like DK and Necromancer both having Frost, DK already share that with Mages who both have thematic connections to Liches, and have a Unholy connection through Covenants. At the end of the day, having closer connections still doesn't make them the same. Blizzard is absolutely fine with overlap, and the real question is why you think it has to be mutually exclusive.



    In your own words, I'd consider this consequence more than a pattern. It's arbitrary and pointless to discuss when it's not a limit to what future classes can be based on.


    Necromancer is a well defined archetype that is not yet playable in WoW, and are not represented by any existing class in the game. All you've been doing is cherry picking statements that you try and twist into an excuse, rather than consider that Necromancers are perfectly fine as a playable class if you took the time to sit down and look at how classes are designed and how the Necromancer would fit.

    -Edit- Just noticed the mod post, clearing out the non-Necromancer related stuff.
    Funny how i'm the only one infracted. This is what Aucald had to say:
    "your post did indeed violate the substance of the thread warning, continuing a number of arguments that were derailing the thread well after the warning".

    And here you are continuing the same arguments as i did with no apparent repercussions.
    Biased much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Unrelated to that particular quote, but I was doing digging into the Maldraxxus Gladiator stuff and found this related to Necromancy. Fairly recent stuff, back in July. It's the Red Shirt Guy's interview with Danuser.

    https://games.no1geekfun.com/red-shi...n-shadowlands/


    Sure, the necrolords can also create soulless constructs from body parts. The highest art of necromancy in Maldraxxus, however, remains to transfer a soul from body to body. However, you cannot bring back a dead soul. The type of necromancy Arthas used is different from the magic used by the necrolords. The Scourge is the creation of the Burning Legion. The demons stole only a small part of the knowledge of the necrolords in the Shadowlands. Basically, the demonic necromancers are botchers who did not understand the philosophy of the necrolords.
    "Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic and home to the forces that were called upon by the Lich King and the Scourge on Azeroth."

    Notice how it says "demonic necromancers" - which are neither Arthas nor the Scourge, but Demons.

    I agree that the Burning Legion stole the secrets of necromancy (or was introduced to it by the Dreadlords) and integrated it into their magic. That pretty much confirms what i've been telling lelenia about the Burning Legion's necromancy. It originates from the Shadowlands.

    The creation of undead such as banshees or death knights, on the other hand, is part of the supreme discipline of necromancy. Arthas could only work this kind of magic with Frostmourne. The rune blade was forged from the jailer’s chains and decorated with the runes of lordship. These powerful runes are the key for soul transfers between reality and the Shadowlands. At the same time, they ensure that the respective souls submit to the will of their master – as in the case of Arthas and Sylvanas.
    It talks about specific cases, such as Sylvanas and the playable Death Knight.

    So a clear and distinct difference between Death Knights and the Necrolords. I think that's sufficient to consider a Necromancer Class since they would be the ones seeking to master the highest art of Necromancy.
    Let me ask you this. If a Maldraxxian Gladiator race is added, which class and spec would be the most fitting for them?

    P.S. - i do not wish to continue this discussion, since i'm clearly being targeted and i do not wish to be banned again over bullshit.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic and home to the forces that were called upon by the Lich King and the Scourge on Azeroth."

    Notice how it says "demonic necromancers" - which are neither Arthas nor the Scourge, but Demons.
    Arthas wasn't created by the Maldraxxians, nor directly by the Jailer. He was created by the demonic Necromancers, and thus empowered by the gifts they provided him, which included a Runeblade that allowed him to tap into a portion of the Maldraxxian Necromancy.

    I agree that the Burning Legion stole the secrets of necromancy (or was introduced to it by the Dreadlords) and integrated it into their magic. That pretty much confirms what i've been telling lelenia about the Burning Legion's necromancy. It originates from the Shadowlands.
    Necromancy originates in the Shadowlands but the Death Knight does not. The Death Knight continues to merely tap into a portion of its power.

    Let me ask you this. If a Maldraxxian Gladiator race is added, which class and spec would be the most fitting for them?

    P.S. - i do not wish to continue this discussion, since i'm clearly being targeted and i do not wish to be banned again over bullshit.
    Warrior, since the Maldraxxi Gladiators represent the House of the Chosen, which is their Warrior-centric faction.

    The term Gladiator is heavily associated with Warriors already in WoW.

    I don't particularly see the connection to Necromancers here?

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Funny how i'm the only one infracted. This is what Aucald had to say:
    "your post did indeed violate the substance of the thread warning, continuing a number of arguments that were derailing the thread well after the warning".

    And here you are continuing the same arguments as i did with no apparent repercussions.
    Biased much?
    Er... We're in a thread all about a potential Necromancer class. I fail to see how me saying what I think would be cool in a Necromancer class would be considered off topic...

  11. #791
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    22,993
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Funny how i'm the only one infracted. This is what Aucald had to say:
    "your post did indeed violate the substance of the thread warning, continuing a number of arguments that were derailing the thread well after the warning".

    And here you are continuing the same arguments as i did with no apparent repercussions.
    Biased much?
    There's no bias? My post with my replies to you are still within the confines of the thread's subject, talking about the necromancer class and its possibilities, and contesting your affirmations.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Do you have no problem in having two concepts that, while gameplay-wise are different, in the lore they're the exact same thing?

    Do you have no problem in having a class that specializes in creating mechs, robots, guns, bombs, rockets, teleporters, etc... but does not know how to create mechs, robots, guns, bombs, rockets, teleporters, etc?

    Think about it: how can a tinker be a tech class, if it doesn't know technology, i.e., the engineering profession? It makes absolutely zero sense from a lore perspective. Should tinker players be forced to have one of their two profession choices be locked to engineering? Or what?
    I think the engineering profession should be renamed tinkering (something anybody can do) while the future class should be called Engineer

  13. #793
    Banned Karmian's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    https://t.me/pump_upp
    Posts
    211
    I absolutely love it.
    But, it would be cool to have Undeath as a Tank spec. There should be a tank minion which fuses with the necromancer in a single being. THe minion's health serves as a shield for the Necromancer and their stats add up.

  14. #794
    Apologies for the late reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ehrenpanzer View Post
    I appreciate the amount of thought you put into this, it actually looks like the basis of a very interesting class.... BUT.. we basically already HAVE Necromancers in the form of Warlocks. Not to mention the immense amount of work adding a new class entails, and with sub numbers where they are I dont know if Blizz will put that much work into something unless its as a hail mary to try and get people back.... then again, I said the same thing about Demon Hunters so what do I know...
    A new class is inevitable, and even more so with the upcoming expansion. Blizzard needs a big WIN and a cool new class that everyone wants to play could be the key.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Problem is that they just missed the opportunity with shadowlands and next one will not make much sense, unless "after The janitor and the shadowlands crisis are gone, now they see they need the power of the death, and necromancers were born from the studies brought fro the shadowlands", but even with that it will feel cheap.
    I feel like this is a huge possibility for the upcoming expansion. Our time in Shadowlands must have had consequences in the living world in Azeroth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Three Faced Goddess View Post
    I love the concept! Do you have one for Dark Rangers? If we got necromancers I wouldn't be so sad about losing out on Dark Rangers.
    I have a Dragonsworn, Dark Ranger, and Tech class concept all on the back-burner. I'm waiting to see if there's a new class in the upcoming expansion, haha, with the thought that I might have to abandon one of them UNLESS, we get Necromancers (or even Bards!) instead!! I'm currently working on Bard talents within my Bard Class concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by hansfredrichseidel View Post
    with the effort you have exerted on this. This looks like it was done by a professional.
    Thank you so much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Karmian View Post
    I absolutely love it.
    But, it would be cool to have Undeath as a Tank spec. There should be a tank minion which fuses with the necromancer in a single being. THe minion's health serves as a shield for the Necromancer and their stats add up.
    I want there to be clear distinctions between Necromancers and Death Knights much like Priests/Paladins and Demon Hunters/Warlocks. Sharing a tank spec would be too much of a similarity; which is why I'm such a fan of a Necro healing spec because it helps set them apart from both DKs and Warlocks.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Many people feel Necromancers should have been a class introduced in Shadowlands, but as I said above, I feel like they're a class that needed an extra foundation established. From shadowlands, we've learned that using necromancy can be a power for good, that not all Necromancers are evil, and that their death magic is much more complex than originally thought. Everyone's currently guessing that a Dragon-based class and expansion is in the works but Blizzard likes to stay clear from the obvious. My perfect expansion idea that includes Necromancers would involve a war with the fanatical holy light and teaming up with Necromancers to fight them.

    Share your thoughts!

  15. #795
    Creo que hiciste un excelente trabajo, espero poder hacer un concepto así en el futuro. Digan lo que digan tanto nigromante como las demás clases a las que se podría llamar híbridas, deben estar en el juego porque son 100% del universo de Warcraft.

  16. #796
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Undermine
    Posts
    31,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Amunrasonther View Post
    Everyone's currently guessing that a Dragon-based class and expansion is in the works but Blizzard likes to stay clear from the obvious.
    Well, I guess it’s fair to say that they went with the obvious. Sometimes people aren’t playing chess, they’re just playing checkers.

    Still looking forward to your next class concept. Also feel free to check out my Explorer class concept.

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well, I guess it’s fair to say that they went with the obvious. Sometimes people aren’t playing chess, they’re just playing checkers.

    Still looking forward to your next class concept. Also feel free to check out my Explorer class concept.
    Sorry for the extremely late reply! Yes, they certainly went with the obvious, and though I did enjoy messing around with Evokers, I still mainly play WOLK classic. I despise the Evoker's limited range and the fact that they're always in a humanoid dragon-form when casting. I would have much MUCH MUCH preferred a Dragon-druid like class concept or one like your own.

    I'm not too sure what my next concept would be and I haven't been working on any. I'll definitely check out your Explorer concept!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •