What do you consider to be good dps for a m+10?

[Qnubi]

I had a discussion with a friend and we couldn't agree on what good dps is for a m+10. In the discussion we agreed everyone has 430 ilvl on average in a m10. I said 30k overall dps on all 3 dps is good. He said 25k+ is good which I consider pretty low for ilvl 430. I know it depends a lot on the week and which class but imo good dps starts at overall 30k+.

Please no philosophical discussion that "good dps" is not only damage, but also support etc. I (we) are aware of that. But raw numbers, what you consider good for m10?

[Multitorix Davlen]

I had a discussion with a friend and we couldn't agree on what good dps is for a m+10. In the discussion we agreed everyone has 430 ilvl on average in a m10. I said 30k overall dps on all 3 dps is good. He said 25k+ is good which I consider pretty low for ilvl 430. I know it depends a lot on the week and which class but imo good dps starts at overall 30k+.

Please no philosophical discussion that "good dps" is not only damage, but also support etc. I (we) are aware of that. But raw numbers, what you consider good for m10?

im with your friend on this. I think 25k is perfectly acceptable number to be pulling for a M+10.

[Jotaux]

If it’s just a 10, 25k will be enough to do it in time.

[Puri]

Details/Warcarftlogs, Skada and Recount use different methods to determine the dps, which is less obvious in raid encounters but there is a huge difference in m+ where you have dps downtimes that all those meters deal differently with which make those values incomparable.
25k dps in warcraftlogs can easily be 35k dps in Recount, so unless we agree on the dps meter first this discussion is pointless.

[Qnubi]

Details/Warcarftlogs, Skada and Recount use different methods to determine the dps, which is less obvious in raid encounters but there is a huge difference in m+ where you have dps downtimes that all those meters deal differently with which make those values incomparable.
25k dps in warcraftlogs can easily be 35k dps in Recount, so unless we agree on the dps meter first this discussion is pointless.

Details and Recount are the choice for the vast majority. Warcraftlogs is very niche compared to the other options.

[agentsi]

I'm 420 equipped, 429 in bags ( yay for 410 socketed items being better than 445s ), but I average around 25-30k per M10, depending on the zone. With boss dmg depending on Tyrannical or not, of 30-40k at the end of the fight.

Most folks I invite are in the 425-435 range, and outside of a few random really good players most only average around 20-25k for the entire dungeon. Which to me, seems low, but its probably part of the ilvl bloat that is going on right now.

With a few of the essences, AoE is really outta control, so that shouldn't be a reason folks are doing low dps. Bad pulls, staying in combat longer than you need to be, etc. All lead to lower "overall" dps, which is sometimes a bit misleading. I prefer to look at boss dps as a metric for the groups I run. If you can burst with lust, over 60k dps at 420, that's pretty good. But if you can't pull half that, which I've seen, there are some issues. But the middle of a timed run isn't the time to try and discuss it. And most randoms would rather tell you to fuck off than to have you give them any pointers.

In short, I agree with the other folks with one caveat. Boss damage needs to be pumping if you're finishing with only 25k overall.

[Puri]

Details and Recount are the choice for the vast majority. Warcraftlogs is very niche compared to the other options.

So are you using Details or Recount? Details has around the same values as Skada, while Recount's dps tends to be 30%-40% higher than the others in m+.

[potis]

A 430 focused on cleave/cleave essences etc should be doing 30k and more, but it also doesnt really work that way cause it highly depends on pulls, if he goes cleave spec and wants to cheese by using Focusing Iris on 20 targets but your tank is like "Just 3", then ye, 22K, good run.

Also 30k+ isnt really needed for a +10, so 25K is more realistic.

[Qnubi]

So are you using Details or Recount? Details has around the same values as Skada, while Recount's dps tends to be 30%-40% higher than the others in m+.

Details for me, sir.

[Tharkkun]

Details and Recount are the choice for the vast majority. Warcraftlogs is very niche compared to the other options.

Details, Skada and Warcraftlogs have the same logging settings. Recount is terrible as the defaults don't penalize you for standing there not casting. It only counts your DPS while active by default.

[Trend]

I would put it this way ... assuming you don't have bad play with wipes (maybe just a death here and there) and your tank/healer damage is pretty average ...

3 DPS averaging 30k should allow you to 3-chest a 10.

3 DPS averaging 25k should allow you to very comfortably time a 10 and possibly 2-chest it.

3 DPS averaging 20k is very unlikely to time a 10 unless the tank and/or healer do enough extra damage to take up some of the slack.

All this assumes the group is doing the generally correct pulls and isn't wasting time standing around or dying to dumb stuff.

[Puri]

Details for me, sir.

For Details I would for sure say your friend is right, overall 25k+ is good DPS to be expected by 430+ in m+10 that will comfortly allow you to time a m10.
But as others already pointed out it is also a question of affixes, during teeming/fort weeks you will see significantly higher dps than during explosive/bolstering/bursting/tyranical. Someone doing 25k one week might easily do 30k next week without any other changes.

[mag07]

I had a discussion with a friend and we couldn't agree on what good dps is for a m+10. In the discussion we agreed everyone has 430 ilvl on average in a m10. I said 30k overall dps on all 3 dps is good. He said 25k+ is good which I consider pretty low for ilvl 430. I know it depends a lot on the week and which class but imo good dps starts at overall 30k+.

Please no philosophical discussion that "good dps" is not only damage, but also support etc. I (we) are aware of that. But raw numbers, what you consider good for m10?

Even the ilevel you mention is an over kill for a 430 in time. If you are running with competent friends. Even 30k deeps average across the board won't help you with idiot pugs. There are also quite a few specs out there that benefit more from lower ilevel with optimum stats/socket than whoring higher ilevel. You really do not want to set a fixed requirement nowadays - a 430 non optimized shadow priest will suck balls v a 415 decked out with 8 sockets and right azerite/trinkets. Just an example, there are more.

This fixation on a number benchmark isn't healthy. Individual spec performance vary greatly from week to week depending on affixes; spec people choose and if pulls consider those - in pugs, it's a matter of luck; in guild's a matter of broader understanding of all specs by the person (usually the tank) that plans the route/pulls. Too many variables to say X is optimal.

I can quite easily pad big number yet fail to kill priority targets/consider affixes not to mention utility making me dead weight with big dick deeps.

[Einsz]

Item level is really bad benchmark this days, some people at 430 barely sim at 30something k meanwhile fully optimized 430 can sim up to 48k. My ilvl is 428 and I average at 38-40k overall depending on dungeon I mainly pug and nobody is doing big pulls in dungeons so I could probably go up to 50k+ in good premade group. (Hunter)

[Flashforcash]

Obs depends on the skill of people also.

Last week i did a 17 freehold on teeming tyranical week, and when we hitted 100% trash and missing 3 bosses, the dps was aorund this:

1st dps: 86k
2nd dps: 70k
3rd dps: 65k
tank: 42k
healer: 15k

this was obs a run with big pulls and would have been a 2chest 17 if the council boss wouldnt do a reset midfight.

But tbh you should have pulled 30-35k s2 with 415 gear, so in the 430 gear level with good skill level and normal decent size pulls in a 10 you can aim for the 35-40k overall on dungeons like FH where you can do big pulls.

The dps obs difference from week to week and dungeon to dungeon. Ex in this week with bolstering, you can always do those big chain pulls because of bolstering so the dps tends to be a bit lower end, unless you got good spread out dps.

EDIT: Shouldnt matter much if its a 10 or 15 either tbh, you tend to do the same damage, mby even higher in the lower keys since you can pull bigger.

[Qnubi]

Even the ilevel you mention is an over kill for a 430 in time. If you are running with competent friends. Even 30k deeps average across the board won't help you with idiot pugs. There are also quite a few specs out there that benefit more from lower ilevel with optimum stats/socket than whoring higher ilevel. You really do not want to set a fixed requirement nowadays - a 430 non optimized shadow priest will suck balls v a 415 decked out with 8 sockets and right azerite/trinkets. Just an example, there are more.

This fixation on a number benchmark isn't healthy. Individual spec performance vary greatly from week to week depending on affixes; spec people choose and if pulls consider those - in pugs, it's a matter of luck; in guild's a matter of broader understanding of all specs by the person (usually the tank) that plans the route/pulls. Too many variables to say X is optimal.

I can quite easily pad big number yet fail to kill priority targets/consider affixes not to mention utility making me dead weight with big dick deeps.

We had to agree on an ilvl, and my m10 groups are in the 430 ballpark, we are well aware that you can do lower but 430 is the norm for dps at this moment in randoms that we join.

What do you think should an ilvl 430 pull overall?

[Chemii]

Good dps is closer to 40K at that item level.

25k seems very average if not a little bit below average. The problem you have with lower keys like a +10 is that stuff dies so fast and certain classes don't excel in that environment.

Many variables though, pull size matters. Still 30K was about the expected damage from a BfD group, naturally it should be higher now.

[babyback]

People who don’t die is doing good dps.

[Tiwack]

You're both right. It comes down to whether the gear is optimized or not for them at that ilvl. On its own it's a meaningless number like it's always been. Disregarding other factors is neat but it's often a stupid mistake to make because you're not gonna make it anywhere if you do. Because there's no 'I' in 'team', alive players are good players.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Burst AoE classes should do (at least) 40k overall at that iLvl. Classes with more ramp up won't be able to do that in 10s unless they are carrying two shit players (mobs not living long enough to ramp properly). This is assuming a smooth run without any wipes obv.

No matter what metric you use, 25k overall is NOT good for an iLvl 430 player in a M+10. People did that in iLvl 400 gear. Really good players did that at the end of s1 in iLvl 385 gear once we got new Azerite pieces with 2 traits from WQ Emissaries.