Colordao father of five killed by illegal immigrant

[Phon]

Because statistics.

That's why you just decide to focus on the drunk driving rather than it being yet another person who shouldn't have been in the country hurting someone? Just ignore the inconvenient statistics, I guess?

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So are you arguing that this didn't happen, or...

I'm telling you it's not state policy.

[wunksta]

That's why you just decide to focus on the drunk driving rather than it being yet another person who shouldn't have been in the country hurting someone? Just ignore the inconvenient statistics, I guess?

The drunk driving aspect is the bigger problem in this case, yes. It was the main cause of death, not the person's citizenship status.

[Phon]

The drunk driving aspect is the bigger problem in this case, yes. It was the main cause of death, not the person's citizenship status.

No, it's yet another person who shouldn't have been in the country who hurt someone. If they're not in the country when they shouldn't be, they can't hurt anyone. This isn't some advanced logical exercise, it's really simple.

[Fabray]

The real story here is that there are multiple people that think you should be shot for driving home after having a few beers. Absolute hysterical lunatics, every one of you.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yeah, I mean. Who thinks it's trivial to put other peoples lives at risk because you drive drunk?

worrying about alternate timelines is a worthless affair.

[Phon]

The real story here is that there are multiple people that think you should be shot for driving home after having a few beers. Absolute hysterical lunatics, every one of you.

If you seat yourself in a vehicle weighing 1000+ kg and is unable to functionally operate it due to being drunk and putting other peoples lives at risk through doing so, yes, you should be shot for the safety of everyone.

[shadowmouse]

The issue here is that a man was killed by a drunk driver.

Not meaning to pick on you, you simply said it in clear concise words.

Yes, the OP is phrased in a way that could lead one to think this is what happened:

An criminal immigrant who had his license suspended for drunk driving over corrected and went across in to oncoming traffic and killed the father of 5. For taking Buchanan’s life, he was charged with careless driving with a revoked license but was not held by police.

Emphasis added

The article says things more clearly:

CSP says Miguel Ramirez Valiente went off the side of the road on Hwy 83, over-corrected into the opposite lane and hit Sean Buchanan.

Valiente pleaded guilty to DUI in 2018. He was charged with careless driving with a revoked license for the crash that took Buchanan’s life.

A guy with a previous DUI went off the road, over corrected, and killed a motorcyclist. Not cool, but not a DUI. From the article, I can't tell what the road was like there or if the guy on the motorcycle might have been partially at fault.

People go off the road for all kinds of stupid reasons. I remember hearing a case where a woman went off the road because she took her hands off the steering wheel. There was a bee in her car, it flew into her face and: "I panicked, I'm allergic to bees". We don't know if there was straight, level road in good repair, or if he was on a downgrade with a blind curve and poor maintenance.

None of that changes that he shouldn't have been driving at all because he didn't have a license, but nothing indicates that he had been drinking at all.

His status as an illegal immigrant is ... odd. Check the second link in OP and you'll see that he did enter the country illegally, but his deportation case had been closed:

Ramirez, a stonemason, said gang violence forced him to flee El Salvador 14 years ago. He's been fighting his immigration case since 2011, after a traffic stop by a local sheriff landed him in ICE custody.

A judge administratively closed the removal case against him last year, Guerra said, after Ramirez survived a workplace assault and applied for a visa for crime victims.
Ramirez said he would have showed up in court if he'd known the case against him had been reopened.

"I've been fighting my case for eight years," he said. "I never missed a court date."

Emphasis added

[s_bushido]

The issue here is that a man was killed by a drunk driver. Regardless of immigration status...people shouldn't be driving drunk.

Actually, unless I missed it, he wasn't drunk. This was purely an accident that involved someone with a past DUI charge. Which just makes this even more of a bullshit story being pushed purely to suit a political agenda.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Not meaning to pick on you, you simply said it in clear concise words.

Yes, the OP is phrased in a way that could lead one to think this is what happened:

Emphasis added

The article says things more clearly:


A guy with a previous DUI went off the road, over corrected, and killed a motorcyclist. Not cool, but not a DUI. From the article, I can't tell what the road was like there or if the guy on the motorcycle might have been partially at fault.

None of that changes that he shouldn't have been driving at all because he didn't have a license, but nothing indicates that he had been drinking at all.

Actually, unless I missed it, he wasn't drunk. This was purely an accident that involved someone with a past DUI charge. Which just makes this even more of a bullshit story being pushed purely to suit a political agenda.

You're right, it isn't clear at all that he was driving drunk at the time of the incident...just that he was driving without a license because it was suspended after a previous DUI. If he was drunk at trhe time of the accident...I would think that detail would have been reported.

But I'm sure that little detail won't change the minds of certain people in this thread.

[Zython]

I'm telling you it's not state policy.

That doesn't seem to really stop them, now does it?

Reminds me of a joke, actually. A man walks up to an airline ticketing counter.

Man: I'd like a ticket to Tampa, but could you send my luggage to Cincinnati?
Receptionist: I'm sorry, sir, but we can't do that.
Man: Why not? You did it last time.

[TexasRules]

This thread did not seem to go the way the OP wanted.

Actually it's going exactly how I thought it would. Had this man not broken several laws and been allowed to stay in America, he would not have killed the other driver. Illegal immigrant who drunk drove, 2 crimes that should have easily led him not to be in America, or on the road without a license. But hey, you guys don't care if a law abiding citizen was killed by someone who should not be on the road. And you obviously don't care that a man illegally in America with no license killed another man.

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Actually, unless I missed it, he wasn't drunk. This was purely an accident that involved someone with a past DUI charge. Which just makes this even more of a bullshit story being pushed purely to suit a political agenda.

I never said he was a drunk driver, I said a criminal with a suspended license for drunk driving killed a law abiding citizen. I guess that makes it a bullshit story to a liberal.

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Alternatively, it went exactly the way OP wanted - demonstrating that people are now so deranged by their politics that they'll shrug off a wife-beating drunk driver killing an American as no biggie is pretty striking.

Thank you for noticing this. It seems the liberals on this board do not. Notice they reinterpreted what I posted as saying he was drunk driving. At no point did I post that or even mean it, yet they twisted words because they either a) are trying to make me look dumb, or b) are actually unable to read correctly. I'll let you decide.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Actually it's going exactly how I thought it would. Had this man not broken several laws and been allowed to stay in America, he would not have killed the other driver. Illegal immigrant who drunk drove, 2 crimes that should have easily led him not to be in America, or on the road without a license. But hey, you guys don't care if a law abiding citizen was killed by someone who should not be on the road. And you obviously don't care that a man illegally in America with no license killed another man.

Not a single person is overlooking that this man accidentally killed another man.

Thank you for noticing this. It seems the liberals on this board do not. Notice they reinterpreted what I posted as saying he was drunk driving. At no point did I post that or even mean it, yet they twisted words because they either a) are trying to make me look dumb, or b) are actually unable to read correctly. I'll let you decide.

You also made a big deal of the fact that he wasn't being held by the police...but the reason he isn't being held by the police is because he's being held by ICE.

[TexasRules]

More of your lies and misrepresentations. It's hard to know where to start when you literally get every part of the story wrong. Didn't "kill" anyone. Vehicular manslaughter from DUI is a different thing - although still terrible and tragic.

This isn't an issue about illegal immigration, but rather just a bad person who did another stupid thing. All you're doing is stewing racism and misleading immigration policies and issues. Thanks for making the world a worse place.

PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE HE DID NOT KILL A FATHER OF 5? You said he didn't kill anyone, I posted a fucking fact and you are denying a fact.

Please show me where I misrepresented this. I posted facts from an abc news station and an article, show me what I misrepresented.

Feel free to highlight in the article where it says the illegal immigrant did not kill a father of 5. Please show me where you are not twisting things to say I said he was drunk driving ...or better yet, show me where I said it.

Morally and intellectually corrupt posting by you. You're twisting of the article is fucking pathetic.

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Yeah, I think a DUI is pretty fucking trivial. And there are enough citizens who do everything on that list on a regular basis that I really don't give two fucks if an illegal does them.

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Ride your high horse all day long buddy, but lots of "normal" folks drive after drinking.

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At least we know which one of us is the psycho in the room.

You have obviously not lost a loved one or a friend to drunk driving. I feel sorry that you care so very little for human life.

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If he had not been in the country he could not have killed someone. What is so difficult to understand about this?

They are liberals, it is all too hard to understand. You can't argue with committed people who have no chance of seeing any side but their own. I see your logic because it is simple and easy to flow, yet if you are so strongly against certain political things, they will never see your logic. You're ont he wrong board for logic form people who only hate.

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I'm not disputing that...I'm saying it's two separate issues. His immigration issues were already ongoing before the accident. He's been fighting his deportation for 8 years. He can't be deported until the case is settled.

Was his dui case settled and should he have been driving at all? Should a man who WILL NOT follow the laws of the country he is in illegally, still get to fight to be in that country?

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The conclusion in this situation shouldn't be 'remove undocumented people from the country' because that won't stop drunk driving fatalities. The focus should be on reducing the overall fatalities.

Trying to use these single incidents to support a case without looking at the entire situation and all statistics is disingenuous.

This man broke the law by coming here illegally. While fighting to stay in a country he illegally entered, he broke another law. He was convicted of DUI and had his license suspended. If you deport said person who has broken at least 2 laws, he would not have driven without a license. So because he wants to stay and avoid being deported, he breaks a third law of driving without a license but this time kills someone. I am pretty sure I am looking at the entire situation. In this situation, the conclusion of 'remove undocumented people from the country' woudl have saved a law abiding citizen's life. Feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

There is a focus on reducing overall fatalities of drunk driving, but like everything else in America, it's not as effective as it should be.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Was his dui case settled and should he have been driving at all? Should a man who WILL NOT follow the laws of the country he is in illegally, still get to fight to be in that country?

No, he should not have been driving. I don't think anyone has said that he should have been driving. Nobody should be driving after they have had their license revoked. He's being charged with careless driving with a revoked license. But none of that has anything to do with him being an illegal immigrant.

[Machismo]

This is about as dumb as saying, "If only they had banned drinking and driving, this never would have happened."

[TexasRules]

Not a single person is overlooking that this man accidentally killed another man.




You also made a big deal of the fact that he wasn't being held by the police...but the reason he isn't being held by the police is because he's being held by ICE.

Cubby disagrees with you

and for fuck's sake get over the ICE thing that was reported Friday, 3 days after the article. We get it, they picked him up after the police did nothing.

[Ghostpanther]

No, he should not have been driving. I don't think anyone has said that he should have been driving. Nobody should be driving after they have had their license revoked. He's being charged with careless driving with a revoked license. But none of that has anything to do with him being an illegal immigrant.

I wouldn't say it had nothing to do with it. If he had not been here illegally, he would not have did it. Illegals here, should not be able to get a driver's license anyway.

[TexasRules]

This is about as dumb as saying, "If only they had banned drinking and driving, this never would have happened."

or saying, "yeah if they just make murder illegal, people will stop shooting other people"

[Machismo]

or saying, "yeah if they just make murder illegal, people will stop shooting other people"

Great, thanks for agreeing with me that this is a stupid argument for certain people who are trying to make it.

Let me know when you realize it...

[Freighter]

Why was he in the country?