Do people even use Gouge and Riposte today? I didn't know that was part of the M+ rotation?
Do people even use Gouge and Riposte today? I didn't know that was part of the M+ rotation?
Rogues had better utility and dps during legion but you never saw the 3x rogues back then.what has changed is dungeon design and bad class design.
Ass blizzard themselves said they wanted harder dungeons with BFA hence the tyrannical fortified being the first affix. All of this favoured rogues because choosing what to fight or not is the real thing here.
Both abilities are really strong. Gouge is much more than a second interrupt as it can also stop non-interruptible casts like from the Maggots in Underrot or the monkeys in Freehold.
Riposte is a really strong defensive in M+ / MDI. You can off-tank for 10 seconds which can be very beneficial (for example for last boss in Siege), you can use it to tank mobs that fixates on you or you can use it on huge trash pulls where incoming damage is harder to see. It’s a strong defensive.
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In Legion, the trash were a lot different than today. In legion you saw teams running 3 WW monks. The tactic was often just to pull huge packs and chain stun them while you nuked them down. It was also much easier to kite trash in Legion. Also a lot of classes lost a lot of utility going from Legion to BFA while Rogues have almost the same toolkit.
Currently, if you’re just looking for dps then you can bring a lot of classes. Outlaw does not have very strong single target damage. One of the problems with the ranged specs for example is not so much their dps but more the fact that they don’t have interrupts on short cds which is huge problem for the MDI. Outlaw is chosen because it offers both good dps, great control and great defence.
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Let’s have a civil discussion my man. No need to get personal. It’s healthy to talk with people you don’t agree with. It opens the mind even if you’re right and the other person is wrong
Last edited by Kaver; 2019-08-15 at 05:48 AM.
I think the nerf was the simple solution (easy for blizzard to implement) but the wrong solution. A lot of classes can bring good dps to M+.
Outlaw utility is so much more than just shroud. They have 2 interrupts (one which can stop some non-interruptible casts), 2 stuns and 2 CC (blind and sap). No other class has that. It offers so much priority target control which is crucial in M+. At the same time Outlaw also got the best defensive abilities in the game. Outlaw is much more than just dps and shroud.
not only this but the major change since legion is dungeon design that favors skips .in legion everything was more linear with fewer trash. blizzard themselves stated they wanted harder dungeons with more packed trash but they made it the wrong way and all of this favors shroud.at the same time m+ favors melee mostly since ranged have almost to none utility melee has and long interupt cds. take sps for example , insane st dps in raids but garbage in m+.
the major flaw among all things here is class design , take arms warrior and compare them to the utility a rogue has .arms 0 survivability and 0 utility
they should either give more classes usefull stuff , like more classes having utility , or even shroud , otherwise make it so you can shroud only once in a dungeon.
plus i think many people will agree with me on this , those 5% buffs/nerfs are chaning nothing.
in addition buffing/nerfing based on the top 1 % is toally wrong. the comminity might try and follow the mdi mentality but , most players are either inviting classes with similar armor type , or going random. maybe people forget this but during kara m+ it was 3 ww monks and none cared.
Common misconception. Just because a class/spec isn't in the MDI doesn't mean it's garbage. You can time +20 keys and up with a shadow priest in your group, you know. I've done several high keys with a shadow priest in the group and their overall damage often rival that of the melee dps, while of course being higher on bosses / ST targets.
That being said, I do agree with you on the dungeon design points and how shroud is quite strong. No amount of utility rivals if we compare to the time it saves you (Shadowmeld being quite close, though!).
Hi
This is very true, SP with the right setup can actually be quite amazing damage in M+.
It's just that they add almost no relevant utility. Their interrupt is on a godawful CD, and aside from a fear and the occasional Dispersion cheese they do basically nothing other than add damage. And that puts them in the same camp as many other specs that would have decent enough DPS, but just don't bring all the other stuff you'd rather have. Whereas Outlaw Rogues bring ALL that stuff and more PLUS the DPS.
I remember when blizzard first released these kind of timed runs and they said they wouldn't tune around what was happening at the extreme top and that it was basically designed to be broken by people and some classes like rogue would inevitably be the best. Sad to see they're trying to change things now. Mythic dungeons by design will never be capable of being balanced at the extreme high end. Let rogues be rouges. (Am a DH BTW, I haven't leveled my rogue since Cataclysm)