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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Disney continues to kill off old characters by wanting to cast Ewan McGregor in new SW show.

    https://deadline.com/2019/08/ewan-mc...rs-1202669319/

    Oh wait.

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    Hey but its cool that Luke learned how to be a fighter pilot in a couple of hours?

    'By he knew how to fly T-16s!'

    Yeah and being able to drive a car makes you a tank commander...
    T16s were created by incom and have very similar controls the xwing itself was created to be easy to use also by incom since the majority of rebels were not originally pilots. The primary reason that Xwings were better was not that they were more sophisticated than ties it's that they had shields and hyperdrives while ties didn't.

  2. #262
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I love halfway decent moviemaking this however is trash and reset character growth arcs to zero. What I expected Han and Leia are married Luke has been training the new Jedi and their progeny are the central protags also give me either Mara or Cali as Luke's wife. The trilogy should have been about passing the torch and an external threat not oh hey yeah we just reset everything to a new hope but now we have a super powered girl luke who makes anakin look slow.
    Literally describing your own personal fanfic and complaining that the actual films are "wrong" because your fanfic is contradicted by them.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    So, no actual arguments, just a demand that I accept your personal headcanon as more important than the actual core films.

    And that just ain't happening.
    Justify your position with non disney wars it's not personal head cannon that Anakin's dad was the force it's spelled out in the damn movie. Lucas did a fairly obvious subversion of the christ myth where instead of turning the devil away the jesus analogue joined him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Literally describing your own personal fanfic and complaining that the actual films are "wrong" because your fanfic is contradicted by them.
    Literally describing the EU lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misuteri View Post
    RETORT: And the people that make billion dollar movie ticket buyers say...

    WHO?
    Not really KoToR is ine of the most popular games in history and swtor for a while had over a 2 million concurrent userbase probably better than BFA atm at it's peak

  4. #264
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Justify your position with non disney wars
    I'll use Episode VII and VIII all I like. They're canon entries, your headcanon is just your imagination.

    it's not personal head cannon that Anakin's dad was the force it's spelled out in the damn movie.
    That this means he's the most powerful in the Force that can ever exist is not spelled out anywhere. You're making it up, and you have no basis for it. He was stronger than anyone else at the time of his rise to power, but that doesn't mean he was the most powerful possible.

    It certainly wasn't true in the old EU, objectively speaking. Grandmaster Luke and Sidious were both ranked higher, and that's before we get into extended stuff like the Force Gods or Vitiate in the Old Republic. The Father is in Clone Wars, so he's definitely way stronger than Anakin, and also in the current canon. Anakin's role as the Chosen One was to bring balance to the Force. Not to be the strongest that there could ever be. That's just . . . something you made up.

  5. #265
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    T16s were created by incom and have very similar controls the xwing itself was created to be easy to use also by incom since the majority of rebels were not originally pilots. The primary reason that Xwings were better was not that they were more sophisticated than ties it's that they had shields and hyperdrives while ties didn't.
    None of what you wrote explains why it's okay that Luke became a fighter pilot in a couple of hours but Rey is a Mary Sue.

    Luke is force-sensitive, they both are.

    Luke had experience, zero combat experience in an airspeeder. At least Rey's excuse for being able to pilot the Falcon is 1000s of hours in a simulator.

    Also who taught Luke how to fight? Yoda taught Luke how to meditate and some tricks but now how to actually fight. Rey's excuse is that she's been carrying around a quarterstaff her entire life. Luke was just a kid on a farm before setting off to fight the Sith.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I thought it was Disney that vetoed the EU, not Lucas, it is Disney that made a resh start with Expisode 7. If it is then have you been blaming Lucas for Disney's actions?
    It never was.

    Lucas vetoed the whole thing back in 1999, when he started making his own stories again, and basically said the whole EU was no longer canon (he originally allowed them full reign to do what they like in the early 90s, because Star Wars wasn't popular then, and brought him in money).
    He allowed writers to create multiple story arcs, backstories, introiduced new canon characters, and then shat on them. If anything, Disney have been actually bringing them *back* (Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade for example).
    Disney might have made it *official*, but Lucas basically retconned the shit out of everything beforehand, but always allowed them to keep the books on sale because he got a share of the profits from any sales of the older titles (he didn't allow anyone to write anything *new* though).

    Heck, also at what Lucas did to his own damn story. Han no longer shooting first, midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks literally to sell toys to kids, and you will see the guy was the most money hungry ass possible. Star Wars was DOA back in the 90s in terms of decent lore, Mr L saw fit to that.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    None of what you wrote explains why it's okay that Luke became a fighter pilot in a couple of hours but Rey is a Mary Sue.

    Luke is force-sensitive, they both are.

    Luke had experience, zero combat experience in an airspeeder. At least Rey's excuse for being able to pilot the Falcon is 1000s of hours in a simulator.

    Also who taught Luke how to fight? Yoda taught Luke how to meditate and some tricks but now how to actually fight. Rey's excuse is that she's been carrying around a quarterstaff her entire life. Luke was just a kid on a farm before setting off to fight the Sith.
    You realize the sum total of Luke being a fighter pilot in anh right? Fly down the trench fire torps with the force. There was zero actual dogfighting it was just fly down the trench. Luke didn't do shit with a Saber until RoTJ, Vader toyed with him and cut off his hand he straight up lost.

    In what freaking world is Rey similar lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'll use Episode VII and VIII all I like. They're canon entries, your headcanon is just your imagination.



    That this means he's the most powerful in the Force that can ever exist is not spelled out anywhere. You're making it up, and you have no basis for it. He was stronger than anyone else at the time of his rise to power, but that doesn't mean he was the most powerful possible.

    It certainly wasn't true in the old EU, objectively speaking. Grandmaster Luke and Sidious were both ranked higher, and that's before we get into extended stuff like the Force Gods or Vitiate in the Old Republic. The Father is in Clone Wars, so he's definitely way stronger than Anakin, and also in the current canon. Anakin's role as the Chosen One was to bring balance to the Force. Not to be the strongest that there could ever be. That's just . . . something you made up.
    They are not canon to the argument being discussed because the discussion is specifically about disney wars character level compared to the OT and Prequels you can't justify disney wars with disney wars lols

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Disney continues to kill off old characters by wanting to cast Ewan McGregor in new SW show.

    https://deadline.com/2019/08/ewan-mc...rs-1202669319/

    Oh wait.
    Could be they're trying to course correct after they panicked and shelved everything after Solo. With them announcing the cancellation of Resistance ahead of the second season even starting maybe they're backing off sequel trilogy stuff now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    It never was.

    Lucas vetoed the whole thing back in 1999, when he started making his own stories again, and basically said the whole EU was no longer canon (he originally allowed them full reign to do what they like in the early 90s, because Star Wars wasn't popular then, and brought him in money).
    He allowed writers to create multiple story arcs, backstories, introiduced new canon characters, and then shat on them. If anything, Disney have been actually bringing them *back* (Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade for example).
    Disney might have made it *official*, but Lucas basically retconned the shit out of everything beforehand, but always allowed them to keep the books on sale because he got a share of the profits from any sales of the older titles (he didn't allow anyone to write anything *new* though).

    Heck, also at what Lucas did to his own damn story. Han no longer shooting first, midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks literally to sell toys to kids, and you will see the guy was the most money hungry ass possible. Star Wars was DOA back in the 90s in terms of decent lore, Mr L saw fit to that.
    Afaik is was always Lucas's opinion that only his stories were canon and then there was everything else, but for the most part everything else occurred in a time period he wasn't telling stories in. The only thing I can recall Lucas actually retconning was the EU depiction of Mandalorian culture when it got covered in the Clone Wars cartoon.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Not because of the reasons given.
    Well,all the old characters are gone because as part of the deal to buy the rights, Disney agreed to allow George Lucas the profits from sales of merchandise relating to all the old characters. Disney wanted to replace those old characters so people would buy new merchandise with the new characters. Only problem was that Disney made characters with no back story, didn't earn their powers, it was just given to them. Consequently nobody likes the new characters because they have no substance and Disney not only ruined their chances of profits from merchandise, they have probably killed off the whole franchise.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Could be they're trying to course correct after they panicked and shelved everything after Solo. With them announcing the cancellation of Resistance ahead of the second season even starting maybe they're backing off sequel trilogy stuff now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Afaik is was always Lucas's opinion that only his stories were canon and then there was everything else, but for the most part everything else occurred in a time period he wasn't telling stories in. The only thing I can recall Lucas actually retconning was the EU depiction of Mandalorian culture when it got covered in the Clone Wars cartoon.
    I don't think there was much mention of it, because the concept of "What is canon?" didn't really matter that much in those days. Licencing was licencing, and anything you created in that universe became a part of that universe.
    The whole concept of canon mythology is actually surprisingly recent, and only mainly when companies realised that stuff they had licenced out might not be fully under their control, so they had best make something official or not.

    Lucas never had an issue with anything in the EU, he was fine with stories like "Splinter of the Minds Eye" being released in 1978, because it raised awareness and made more money for his product. This continued all the way until the late 90s, when he figured that he had arguably lost *control* of his story elements, and anything he wanted to say, had to be changed.
    When he argues "Oh, it was never official anyways", that is utter horseshit, because it never existed as a concept nor idea. It only started to happen when he realised otherwise. The amount of film companies for example, that had books made of their movies, which were utterly different was surprisingly high ("Aliens" by Alan Dean Foster had a famous scene where Bishop meets an Alien in the tunnels, which changes the tone of the character quite a lot, to even things like Robocop 2 having more in line with Frank Millers original story than the movie). Might seem a digression, but just reinforcing the point, that licenced products were barely even acknowledged as anything by the official owners. Heck, Star Wars even had a ton of vehicles made up by Kenner Toys, that weren't even in the movies, and when Lucas saw them, he thought they were 'cool', but absolutely no prior checking to it was done.

    So, as I said, any claims by Lucas of "Oh, it was never *official* in the first place" are just utter horseshit from him backtracking, nothing more.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by druenos View Post
    Well,all the old characters are gone because as part of the deal to buy the rights, Disney agreed to allow George Lucas the profits from sales of merchandise relating to all the old characters. Disney wanted to replace those old characters so people would buy new merchandise with the new characters. Only problem was that Disney made characters with no back story, didn't earn their powers, it was just given to them. Consequently nobody likes the new characters because they have no substance and Disney not only ruined their chances of profits from merchandise, they have probably killed off the whole franchise.
    Yeah, no.

    Disney is just continuing the story. Everything from the Solo movie, to the theme parks, tells you a completely different tactic than what you guys are spewing. Hell, they brought back Maul and wanted to make a Boba Fett movie. You people need to stop with your insane and frankly stupid, conspiracies.

    Not too mention, none of that is how consumerism works and I guarantee Disney, knows how that works more than you.
    M.A.A.A. Make America Adult Again

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Yeah, no.

    Disney is just continuing the story. Everything from the Solo movie, to the theme parks, tells you a completely different tactic than what you guys are spewing. Hell, they brought back Maul and wanted to make a Boba Fett movie. You people need to stop with your insane and frankly stupid, conspiracies.

    Not too mention, none of that is how consumerism works and I guarantee Disney, knows how that works more than you.
    I don't think you understand the meaning of the word conspiracy. This is just normal business practice for Disney, they are cunts.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Not too mention, none of that is how consumerism works and I guarantee Disney, knows how that works more than you.
    I dunno... I mean, from reading these forums, I'm convinced MMO-C is home to some of the best screenwriters, political masterminds, game developers, and anthropologists. A true font of talent begging to be tapped!

  14. #274
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Again nothing in the new trilogy overrides established lore in the case of making an argument. Anakin is the literal chose one that Rey can make him look like a not Gary Stu is a tribute to how god awfully her character is written.
    Anakin isn’t even really the chosen he was made by the sith in both canons not the force it self and in both canons he doesn’t bring balance to the force.

    It’s a bunch of Jedi Mumbo jumbo.

    Also unlike anakin who was made by the sith Rey has just been powered up to match Kylo she isn't strong for her own sake she’s a balance to Kyos over whelming power.

  15. #275
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Also unlike anakin who was made by the sith Rey has just been powered up to match Kylo she isn't strong for her own sake she’s a balance to Kyos over whelming power.
    I mean, Snoke explicitly says the Force is self-balancing, and because he and Kylo are strong champions of the Dark Side, a strong champion of the Light had to emerge. He assumed it would be Skywalker, but was suprised by Rey. Rather than invest more power in Skywalker, the Force picked a new champion.

    There's no "prophecy", but the explanation is still "the Force does shit because the Force says so".

  16. #276
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by druenos View Post
    Well,all the old characters are gone because as part of the deal to buy the rights, Disney agreed to allow George Lucas the profits from sales of merchandise relating to all the old characters. Disney wanted to replace those old characters so people would buy new merchandise with the new characters. Only problem was that Disney made characters with no back story, didn't earn their powers, it was just given to them. Consequently nobody likes the new characters because they have no substance and Disney not only ruined their chances of profits from merchandise, they have probably killed off the whole franchise.
    This holds no water like at all. Since Disney got starwars they have been pumping out comics non stop.

    Is it really so hard to believe the actors just got old and it’s not a grand conspiracy?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Anakin isn’t even really the chosen he was made by the sith in both canons.
    wrong, this is only true in soywar's canon originating from one of their post-purchase retcon comics.

    in the original plagius' attempt to create life via the force instead caused the force(as a spiritual entity akin to a god with it's own will and agency) to create anakin to "destroy the sith and bring balance(as defined by anyone against the will of the force being out of balance) to the force"(as a metaphysical spiritual aura that exists everywhere yet can be contaminated and corrupted by selfish intentions creating an opposing malicious "dark side of the force").

    anakin did this not by destroying them himself, but by fathering luke who would redeem him from his fallen state, the jedi for Yoda's foolish perversion of doctrine, and luke himself from his own momentary lapses to the throughout the trilogy.
    then as per the prophecy anakin did indeed destroy the sith, both sidious and vader.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The Star Wars fanbase is fucking scary.
    the world is pretty scary tbh.

  19. #279
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malikath View Post
    wrong, this is only true in soywar's canon originating from one of their post-purchase retcon comics.

    in the original plagius' attempt to create life via the force instead caused the force(as a spiritual entity akin to a god with it's own will and agency) to create anakin to "destroy the sith and bring balance(as defined by anyone against the will of the force being out of balance) to the force"(as a metaphysical spiritual aura that exists everywhere yet can be contaminated and corrupted by selfish intentions creating an opposing malicious "dark side of the force").

    anakin did this not by destroying them himself, but by fathering luke who would redeem him from his fallen state, the jedi for Yoda's foolish perversion of doctrine, and luke himself from his own momentary lapses to the throughout the trilogy.
    then as per the prophecy anakin did indeed destroy the sith, both sidious and vader.
    Anakin was made by palagius rather directly or indirectly he wasn’t some god like entity just pooped out by the force.

    The sith also come back in droves and outlive Luke, the Jedi mumbo jumbo about balance was just that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I mean, Snoke explicitly says the Force is self-balancing, and because he and Kylo are strong champions of the Dark Side, a strong champion of the Light had to emerge. He assumed it would be Skywalker, but was suprised by Rey. Rather than invest more power in Skywalker, the Force picked a new champion.

    There's no "prophecy", but the explanation is still "the Force does shit because the Force says so".
    I’m not sure why people won’t accept this, the force can apparently make baby’s and give people the power to destroy planets but it can’t power up force users for what ever reason?

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Anakin was made by palagius rather directly or indirectly he wasn’t some god like entity just pooped out by the force.

    The sith also come back in droves and outlive Luke, the Jedi mumbo jumbo about balance was just that.
    i never said he was, but if you want to ignore the old canon and conflate a fictitious argument to try and defend your false assertion, that's fine.
    the entire story's metaphysics is a mash of buddism and christianity, nothing really creative.

    and? the EU was made years after the trilogy, in a context where luke was supposed to reform the jedi teachings to their earlier state prior to Yoda's deviance leading to jedi's being mandated as either emotionally detached or emotionally deranged.
    you can see this is the prequel trilogy to, the conflict between qui gon jin and yoda being formative to anakin's teacher obiwan kenobi and anakin aswell once the clone wars drives it to the extremes with yoda barring anakin from promotion due to the fear of him being emotionally attached to people.
    then this exclusion leads to the death of anakin's mother, causing the very emotional derangement that yoda instructs the jedi to detatch themselves to avoid.

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