No Ret Pallies

[Moozart]

Regardless of damage it's just shit to play and super fucking dull. That coupled with bad numbers just makes it an avoid at all costs spec to me, up there with balance & elemental.

This whole class balance and viability issue is constantly eating at the back of my brain when it comes to classic, I find it really annoying that people want it to be like this for the sake of authenticity, which is why I don't think I'll play for very long.

I get it, I just don't think it's very good, similar to how I hated it back in 2005.

"You can't play that, or build this, sorry".

You realize Shaman Elemental was one of the better dps spec's right? They were up there with Afflic/Destro Lock, Fire mage, Spriest

[Dextroden]

Even thought Classic has returned the chances of that mindset returning as a whole is slim. Within months there will be some form of gearscore or raider IO for classic.

Well that's just unavoidable. We wouldn't have the phrase "Kara gear for Kara run" if people didn't always do this eventually.

[Necromantic]

Well that's just unavoidable. We wouldn't have the phrase "Kara gear for Kara run" if people didn't always do this eventually.

I still hope not. Keep the tryhards and their IO score BS out of classic. People bringing in newer age drama-prone things that will just ruin the whole concept of classic. If they want that stuff, they can stick to the rumored "Classic+" server(s) that may or may not come out.

[Dextroden]

1. "You must not be that amazing if you don't want to crawl for that marathon ". They have 1 week to lvl to 60, get rep, get thru mc and beat the boss. Why would they try to make it even harder?

2. When did I not respect ppls decision to play what they want? What high horse? I'm not gonna come to your house and delete your char cause you're playing ret lol.

1. It isn't that hard. I'm sure these elitists can handle it.

2. Okay. You're a different person. That's entirely my fault. It's the high horse of people trying to decide what people run outside of raids. I understand raids where a dps check actually exists this can matter. But a dungeon? How much longer do you think it will really take?

Plus, people like to say you only really need 20 people in the raid to clear. That sounds like having one or two rets shouldn't be that devastating to the run.

- - - Updated - - -

I still hope not. Keep the tryhards and their IO score BS out of classic. People bringing in newer age drama-prone things that will just ruin the whole concept of classic. If they want that stuff, they can stick to the rumored "Classic+" server(s) that may or may not come out.

It's been around since the start. Once a few months pass, parts of the pub raiding community assume all people are now mostly geared and decide you must have gear from the place or they don't want you there.

[ellieg]

1. It isn't that hard. I'm sure these elitists can handle it.

2. Okay. You're a different person. That's entirely my fault. It's the high horse of people trying to decide what people run outside of raids. I understand raids where a dps check actually exists this can matter. But a dungeon? How much longer do you think it will really take?

Plus, people like to say you only really need 20 people in the raid to clear. That sounds like having one or two rets shouldn't be that devastating to the run.

It's time sensitive is the problem for week 1 rags. They want the most optimized team to make the highly improbable, slightly more realistic. Week 2? Bring what u want.

In mc, bring what u want, idc. It's when u get into aq40 and naxx that it's a lot more strict. Maybe even vael.

Idc how ppl set up their groups. For me tho, I'm running a dungeon because I want something. I know the piece I want is only a chance to drop. It will prob take multiple runs, therefore I want them to go as quickly and smoothly as possible. There are gonna be a ton of ppl whispering me when I say LF1M DPS. If a mage provides better cc and better dps, I have no reason to take the ret. Groups like yours will take them and that's fine for you. Groups like mine will take the mage. Now if we are sitting in IF for 10 mins and the ret is the only whisper? Of course I'd take him

[Coldfrostzero]

This is factually incorrect. Unless you count Unbalancing Strikes/ things that lower defense, at defense cap you are crit immune to any physical PVE attack. (As a warrior). NOTE: You always have a chance for a crushing blow, which wasn't able to be taken off the table until late TBC with avoidance cap.

Hopefully, this isn't against the rules since it's only information about the most recent discussion of defense cap.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lightshope/...ense_cap_myth/

I concede that it is possible to initially be defense capped, but being defense capped means your threat is garbage (as a warrior since being hit = rage). Most tanks don't go for cap because of this. Not to mention, diminishing returns. Even at cap, DR kicks in and you are now below it.

[Necromantic]

It's been around since the start. Once a few months pass, parts of the pub raiding community assume all people are now mostly geared and decide you must have gear from the place or they don't want you there.

That was when the raid content was relevant, new, fresh and never-seen-before. I would hope many from that day have matured since then.

[Dextroden]

It's time sensitive is the problem for week 1 rags. They want the most optimized team to make the highly improbable, slightly more realistic. Week 2? Bring what u want.

In mc, bring what u want, idc. It's when u get into aq40 and naxx that it's a lot more strict. Maybe even vael.

Idc how ppl set up their groups. For me tho, I'm running a dungeon because I want something. I know the piece I want is only a chance to drop. It will prob take multiple runs, therefore I want them to go as quickly and smoothly as possible. There are gonna be a ton of ppl whispering me when I say LF1M DPS. If a mage provides better cc and better dps, I have no reason to take the ret. Groups like yours will take them and that's fine for you. Groups like mine will take the mage. Now if we are sitting in IF for 10 mins and the ret is the only whisper? Of course I'd take him

If it's bring what you want up til about AQ40, then why does this thread even exist?

And I'm first come, first serve. I just can't abide by not bringing people for goddamn casual content because muh deeps. Timed Strat maybe, but I'm a prot pally so fuck not steamrolling it. It's not like we're talking about mythics. And if ret pally dps is holding you back on dungeons, it's time to look around.

But, then again. We finish the dungeon, I win. I want gear but I actually like running dungeons and helping people get gear. So I have to acknowledge I'm a heretic and a scum to people who hate dungeons but need to do them for gear.

- - - Updated - - -

That was when the raid content was relevant, new, fresh and never-seen-before. I would hope many from that day have matured since then.

Say it with me.

This-will-never-change. It was a thing even in Vanilla. It will return because it was always here.

[Sarevokcz]

You realize Shaman Elemental was one of the better dps spec's right? They were up there with Afflic/Destro Lock, Fire mage, Spriest

ele has good damage and very good scalling with SP since LB got whole second off of its cast from talents unlike most others who get 0,5s, the main throttle were always the mana issues on longer fights. But with the game figured out, people getting better and kill times very likely getting shorter, especially since people get rebealnced 1.12 talents afaik, ele might potentially be very viable.

[ellieg]

If it's bring what you want up til about AQ40, then why does this thread even exist?

And I'm first come, first serve. I just can't abide by not bringing people for goddamn casual content because muh deeps. Timed Strat maybe, but I'm a prot pally so fuck not steamrolling it. It's not like we're talking about mythics. And if ret pally dps is holding you back on dungeons, it's time to look around.

But, then again. We finish the dungeon, I win. I want gear but I actually like running dungeons and helping people get gear. So I have to acknowledge I'm a heretic and a scum to people who hate dungeons but need to do them for gear.

Yes, if you finish the dungeon, you win. For others its finish the dungeon quickly, they win. Both are valid.

The point of this thread is that there is stigma against meme specs, especially ret paladins. So before you spend 10 days played time levelling to 60, be aware of how the community perceives your class and that you wont be welcomed with open arms into the more hardcore guilds. If you are ok with this, then you're good to go.

[Coldfrostzero]

Haha, a retail player! WoD no less. Proves my point really, you're just confused. Thanks for the laugh, though.

You bring up one advantage with a class and pretend like it's the biggest deal ever. It's not, and you're not going to tank over a warrior in raids, and you're definitely not going to be loved as a ret either(which topic is about). Gimping your own group on purpose, lmao.

For the record, I am a Paladin in a top guild for Classic. No, I don't love retail, nor am I a spur-of-the-moment Classic player like you. I know what I am talking about.

You being a WoD player is so funny, because with your "bring the player, not the class" mentality you're in for a shock in Classic. It's okay though, you simply don't know better. Trying to bring in your WoD experience in a discussion about Classic is hilarious though.

I'll let you in on a secret: It's about the specs as a whole that make them bad, especially for progression.

Tell you what, let's see how many top guilds will pick Prot or Ret Paladins for progression! They're so good after all, right?

I played the game since January of 2005. I have the Benediction to prove it. https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...eden/gabriaell

Note that this isn't my main (on retail) and I retired my priest back in BC. I played again briefly in Legion as my Priest.

I was stating when I started actually playing really hardcore. Vanilla was NOT harder than Mythic raiding. Sorry. I've done both and I can tell you that Vanilla, while not a push over, is a lot more forgiving than any Mythic boss.

Great. You're at top paladin on a 15 year old game! Congrats on a private server top player!

I know EXACTLY how bring the Class not the Player goes. I was playing Ret in BC as the only Ret in my raids because I brought a good attitude, knowledge about my class, and I was proving my worth to scouting guilds.

Yes, there is a huge difference in Vanilla Ret vs BC Ret. I never once said they are the top choice at all. I have just said that they aren't as much of a burden as people like you claim. It doesn't really fucking matter what the "top guilds" pick. Top guilds always stack the overpowered classes. Does that make other's completely obsolete? No.

40 Priests killed Onyxia back in Vanilla. People 5 manned Onyxia before AQ was even out. It's completely acceptable to bring in some less than optimal specs.

[toffmcsoft]

A friend of mine played Ret back in the days and saved the day in 5mans more than once. The key to be a good Ret is to be aware of your role as supporter and to react accordingly to every situation.

Bubble Hearth?
Saved the day for himself?

[Dextroden]

Yes, if you finish the dungeon, you win. For others its finish the dungeon quickly, they win. Both are valid.

The point of this thread is that there is stigma against meme specs, especially ret paladins. So before you spend 10 days played time levelling to 60, be aware of how the community perceives your class and that you wont be welcomed with open arms into the more hardcore guilds. If you are ok with this, then you're good to go.

In my book, there's a big difference between informing people of how ret plays at 60 and this thread of "I'm not going to invite you to 5 mans because you went ret". I say this as a person who acknowledges that if I get a raid spot as a prot pally, it's as third or fourth tank/weird off heal and cleanser because I'm flat out missing important shit to big boss tank with.

I also don't like gogogo attitudes. It's one thing to want to minimize downtime when it's not needed. It's another to pretend we're aiming for some invisible leaderboard. But, I think I connect that mindset with people who died to avoidable damage in BC because "look at my recount guys!".

[ellieg]

In my book, there's a big difference between informing people of how ret plays at 60 and this thread of "I'm not going to invite you to 5 mans because you went ret". I say this as a person who acknowledges that if I get a raid spot as a prot pally, it's as third or fourth tank/weird off heal and cleanser because I'm flat out missing important shit to big boss tank with.

I also don't like gogogo attitudes. It's one thing to want to minimize downtime when it's not needed. It's another to pretend we're aiming for some invisible leaderboard. But, I think I connect that mindset with people who died to avoidable damage in BC because "look at my recount guys!".

That's fair. I think ppl should be informed and rets are near the bottom of my rank list on who gets an invite. I plan on my alt being ret and I actually really like them from the servers I've been playing. I have no problem being forced to heal tho.

[Dextroden]

That's fair. I think ppl should be informed and rets are near the bottom of my rank list on who gets an invite. I plan on my alt being ret and I actually really like them from the servers I've been playing. I have no problem being forced to heal tho.

Then inform people. Instead of this thread, actually show people vanilla ret is, unfortunately, a lot of praying for Command procs and waiting for hammer spam.

But I value utility. Providing me a crusader judge or the group a light judge to go with my wisdom and extra blessings is just as important as clubbing stuff in the face to me. As great as warrior damage is, the best utility they have if shit goes tits up is an attempt to help me tank. And that person has to want to do that instead of go down fighting.

(Fair point in the ret also has to want to assist and not save themselves.)

[Unholyground]

All that I know is I will be rolling ret and probably outperform 90% of the people playing classic and that is all that matters.

[Necromantic]

If it's bring what you want up til about AQ40, then why does this thread even exist?

And I'm first come, first serve. I just can't abide by not bringing people for goddamn casual content because muh deeps. Timed Strat maybe, but I'm a prot pally so fuck not steamrolling it. It's not like we're talking about mythics. And if ret pally dps is holding you back on dungeons, it's time to look around.

But, then again. We finish the dungeon, I win. I want gear but I actually like running dungeons and helping people get gear. So I have to acknowledge I'm a heretic and a scum to people who hate dungeons but need to do them for gear.

- - - Updated - - -



Say it with me.

This-will-never-change. It was a thing even in Vanilla. It will return because it was always here.

No offense, but did you read my reply before you responded? I could copy past my comment to reply to this one and it would be a relevant answer.

[Chemii]

You realize Shaman Elemental was one of the better dps spec's right? They were up there with Afflic/Destro Lock, Fire mage, Spriest

Don't know what planet you are on but this is objectively false.

[Kalisandra]

Depending on the length of the fight yeah, at some point the priest will go oom, the ret pally can continue auto attacking and if RNG is on his side, he may be able to pass the wanding priest. However if that priest spec'ed into wand dmg, the ret pally is fukt.

The Ret can regen mana and kind of limp along until their mana pots come back off CD, and then switch back to what passes for a full DPS rotation for a bit until they need to go back to conserving mana. It's awful and painful and the occasional huge Seal of Cassino crit doesn't make up for it. But hey, at least you look fabulous, and that's what counts, right?

[taishar68]

Then inform people. Instead of this thread, actually show people vanilla ret is, unfortunately, a lot of praying for Command procs and waiting for hammer spam.

But I value utility. Providing me a crusader judge or the group a light judge to go with my wisdom and extra blessings is just as important as clubbing stuff in the face to me. As great as warrior damage is, the best utility they have if shit goes tits up is an attempt to help me tank. And that person has to want to do that instead of go down fighting.

(Fair point in the ret also has to want to assist and not save themselves.)

This was a point I wanted to make, and I think you said it more succinctly than I could have. I do think people should know end game Ret DPS is not great, but not by telling them they are pond scum for wanting to play the spec.

Bringing a Ret might add about 20 minutes or so to a dungeon. So I guess it depends on how long you are looking for a DPS that it makes sense to take a Ret that is available, assuming you are concerned on the time in the first place.