Why not even an automatic LFG (without teleport) could ruin classic!

[Big Thanks]

That's the one, and plenty of people used other means of addon distribution back then, it wasn't as consolidated as it's now. IIRC, the "Call to Arms" feature in retail is named after that addon.

And regarding that ticket, that GM simply has not idea what he's talking about. Or he does, but he chose to BS that whiny person, so he'd stfu.

Can you prove this addon was "so famous" Blizzard honored its name ingame? (--__--) this is my suspicious face
Google shows no results to me.

[ls-]

Can you prove this addon was "so famous" Blizzard honored its name ingame? (--__--) this is my suspicious face
Google shows no results to me.

I'm not going to prove you anything. I interacted w/ you few times in the past and know how narrow-minded and stubborn you're, talking to you is a waste of time. I don't even know why I chose to quote you, prob because I just woke up and had nothing else to do.

Have a nice day/night/whatever.

[Big Thanks]

For anyone trying to do detective work on this addon, a reddit user named fusionpit did an impressive work.
Respects to the guy

Call to Arms released 18 June 2005
waybackmachine link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070830..._changelog.php

It had 124 000 downloads on Curse (with some bonus user comments on the page)
https://web.archive.org/web/20061025...lfg-addon.html

[Erinne]

Lot's of people have talked about auto ignoring people using one of these addons but how would you even know they are using it unless they tell you?

Not quite ignoring players, but there is a tag you can include in your chat message (#noclassiclfg) that will make it so the addon does not pick it up, so you won't be grouped with them at least.

ETA: Though there's just been a blue post that they will change the API to limit such addons, so this might not even be necessary.

[Halyon]

You hugely talk down a big feature in the game. How YOU choose to interact with other people in the game is up to you. Theres more to it, even though if you refuse to do so. With this lfg addon, whats in the way of not giving classic teleporting to the dungeon? why not? Afterall, all you do is meaningless running to the place. Why not just be teleported there?

You can quite easily figure out what kind of player someone are by how the choose to communicate. If all a player does is write "inv", "inv tank", "u suck", "noob" and other stuff, alot of people will just ignore them and invite others. To a certain degree it matters how you act yourself in the game towards others. Its NOT a good thing to automate anything in a MMORPG that heavily focuses on social interaction.

If you are alone and refuse being somewhat decent towards others, it might give you troubles down the road. Grps are needed, guilds are needed and friends are needed to complete content in classic.

In retail? its "lul wut", level from 1-120, queue for everything while saying "lul wut" and clear everything the game has to offer.

its not needed, its not desired. What you think of it does not matter really, cause you cleary are not the demographic for classic.

Social interaction is not a feature. It's decided by people. And I still play MMO's, I communicate with people. But, I don't at all view organizing groups as conversation. Loose talk is. Like "so how do you guys like the latest patch" or something, that's conversation. I am very rarely interested in such things, and usually, others aren't either. It depends on the game of course, and if it fosters positive interactions, which encourages people to be more social.

WoW is both good and bad for this, but it is ultimately people who decide if the community is good or bad.

You can be in a guild and barely say anything at all. If you show up reliably, and do your job, some guilds will prefer those over someone talkative, but not reliable or not even engaged in raiding or pvp, whichever the guild likes doing.

You can say very little, but still be polite, and you can be very talkative, and still be the biggest asshole on the planet.

I am not the demographic for classing, that is entirely correct. But it's not just because I don't like classic as a game (having played it for a while), but it's also because I don't like much of the wow community, and I rarely feel at home in a guild. I do not demand that things get catered to me, it is an mmo, so the community matters, and I have unfortunately seen way more up-tight and snobby people about wow, past and present, than say, GW2, FFXIV or even Warframe. Last one is technically not an mmo, but you can still interact with a lot of other people.

I am merely trying to offer a different viewpoint, as this is a forum for discussion, so different opinions can be discussed. And I personally find the community in wow at large to be more negative than positive. Guilds are closed communities with their own eco-systems, so using them in a generalisst term is difficult. Some guilds are just padding their numbers with whoever, others are very insular and have a very tight group of people. They can give very different experiences to their own members, versus a stranger. Friends aren't needed for anything. It makes things easier for someone who wishes to enjoy the game with friends. Pugging is entirely possible, but harder to organize.

It's the behaviour between strangers that matter the most to me here, because that is the better representation when it comes to an outside view of if this game is for you or not, when it comes community.

[Sithalos]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...crater-illidan

Lol!

[Velerios]

Not sure if anyone pointed it out yet. However, you made a mistake. You have a double negative in that first sentence. Meaning you do think that the addon would ruin classic.

Sorry, thanks for correcting me. I will fix this.

- - - Updated - - -

You're missing the point of Classic.

The entire point of old-school MMOs is social interaction. It's why they're paced more deliberately; it's why you have to run to dungeons; it's why there are Elite quests; it's why we want this in the first place. If you want the conveniences of the modern game, play the modern game.

God, i wish that you would have AT LEAST read my post before creating an account for posting stupid things. My post was all ABOUT social interactions, and how Vanilla created them; NOT BECAUSE OF STUPID SPAMMING IN TRADE, but because of countless other reasons that i already posted in the thread. Vanilla was so much more than this; the stupid looking for people-part was actually the worst of all; that's actually the issue.

[Akka]

No, i want to play Classic and use this LFD tool which basically reads chat so i don't have to. Thanks.

First and second part of this sentence are incompatible.

"I want to fast but just with eating a lot"
"I want to paint this in black so it can look white"
"I want a social game where I don't need to be social"

[SirCowdog]

Make some great in-game friends and find a good Guild and you will never have to use a LFG tool. The game was designed around getting to know people and build up a network of friends.

The idea is that while levelling up to 60 (which can take many months), you encounter other players who you might group up with and end up becoming friends. Then when you need to group up for content later in the game, you don't have to spam LFG/LFM in the trade chat or use some kind of tool, you just use your network of friends to form a group and play with people you actually care about. Classic is about building meaningful relationships.

The fact that you have a good guild or friend list doesn't excuse that spamming trade chat for groups is inexcusably bad.

Let's be absolutely ruthlessly blunt here. There's no nostalgia value here. It's just veterans wanting everyone to suffer because they had to suffer the lack of a proper group management tool. And the only reason there wasn't a tool back in the day is because Blizzard devs were too inexperienced or overwhelmed to create a proper UI interface for it.

Whatever supposed value people think there is in requiring a slog back to a town in order to spam a global channel equates to no more than bullshit stories of "back in my day we had to walk uphill both ways in the snow!"

This isn't a request for auto matchmaking or instant teleports to dungeons. This is a request for basic MMORPG functionality that SHOULD have been in the game even back in 2004.

I look at the list of improvements Blizzard themselves are making to mechanics under the hood already, and any arguments about purist preservation of "how things really were" go out the window. The game is already changed to fit many modern realities. Balking at a simple group management interface in the UI is just being petty, unnecessarily dogmatic, and intellectually dishonest.

[Akka]

My opinion is: Not even an automatic LFG-Addon (that has teleport disabled) would ruin classic at all. People here are so overestimating the grouping up in classic. Sorry, but in reality in 90% of the time the only thing i said before the raid was: invite. That's all of the so called social interaction before the group was full.

That's what is called : "not a coincidence".
The autists unable to communicate with others are the same ones who said "there was no need to communicate in Vanilla" and also the same ones who also claim that making a group in Vanilla was annoying because "you had to spam in trade chat for one hour".

Try to think about why the same people who don't see the point of communicating are the ones who had to spend such a long time looking for people to group. Then understand why their opinion on automated grouping tool are shit and should be ignored and they should go back to retail where the game is tailored for their anti-social behaviour.

Go away and stop trying to ruin the game we asked for 10 years.

[Velerios]

That's what is called : "not a coincidence".
The autists unable to communicate with others are the same ones who said "there was no need to communicate in Vanilla" and also the same ones who also claim that making a group in Vanilla was annoying because "you had to spam in trade chat for one hour".

Try to think about why the same people who don't see the point of communicating are the ones who had to spend such a long time looking for people to group. Then understand why their opinion on automated grouping tool are shit and should be ignored and they should go back to retail where the game is tailored for their anti-social behaviour.

Go away and stop trying to ruin the game we asked for 10 years.

Another one who can't read a text, instead reading the title, getting enraged and posting blubber. I don't know if not reading the text really fits into classic where you are supposed to read the quest text too, so if you are in the #nochanges-group, you should begin to read the text please first before you post.

/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank
/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank
/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank

Welcome in the world of "social interactions" in vanilla while looking for a group. If you would read the text, it's not about spamming /2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank, it's about interactions that happens AFTER you found a group. This happens in dungeons where there are no hallways, instead you ask: where do you want to go, what bosses do you want to take down, did somebody

This starts conversations. And after a conversation is startet, it goes on and on and on. That's simply not the case in retail anymore. Dungeons are supposed to be a place for adventure for a group, not something where you teleport automatically there, have a hallway, go through the hallway and kill all bosses, get your loot and never see anyone ever again. But that's NOT the fault of the LFG-Tool, that's the fault of the automatic teleport, but more so because of the dungeons, that are more created for e-sport and fast runs, instead of being simply a place for adventure.

But yes, not doing /2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 1 tank again and again and again in the trade-chat would really destroy the so called social interactions in vanilla.

[Akka]

Another one who can't read a text, instead reading the title, getting enraged and posting blubber. I don't know if not reading the text really fits into classic where you are supposed to read the quest text too, so if you are in the #nochanges-group, you should begin to read the text please first before you post.

/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank
/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank
/2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank

Welcome in the world of "social interactions" in vanilla while looking for a group. If you would read the text, it's not about spamming /2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 2 tank, it's about interactions that happens AFTER you found a group. This happens in dungeons where there are no hallways, instead you ask: where do you want to go, what bosses do you want to take down, did somebody

This starts conversations. And after a conversation is startet, it goes on and on and on. That's simply not the case in retail anymore. Dungeons are supposed to be a place for adventure for a group, not something where you teleport automatically there, have a hallway, go through the hallway and kill all bosses, get your loot and never see anyone ever again. But that's NOT the fault of the LFG-Tool, that's the fault of the automatic teleport, but more so because of the dungeons, that are more created for e-sport and fast runs, instead of being simply a place for adventure.

But yes, not doing /2 LFG UBRS, 2 healer, 1 tank again and again and again in the trade-chat would really destroy the so called social interactions in vanilla.

From the post you quoted :

Try to think about why the same people who don't see the point of communicating are the ones who had to spend such a long time looking for people to group.

The good groups, those which filled faster, were the ones with someone who had some actual social skill. The one who, for example, started to look for at least one tank and one heal in UBRS before even reaching the point he was sending some message on Trade chat. The one who first asked his friend list, and then sweet-talked a few key roles into coming. Then he asked on Trade chat and filled the group in 10 minutes.
Those who spent 1 hour spamming on Trade chat were the ones with people lacking said social skill. Because they would just fill with DPS before having any tank or heal, and everybody knew that the group would be stuck here for one hour. Exactly what I said in my post.

Social skill and ability to talk to people weren't plastered on Trade chat, so obviously you would only see for long time the ones who failed at it. That's my point.

[Ticj]

Hint: There was a LFG tool added to Vanilla in patch 1.10

Yes, a LFG tool that no one used because it was so terrible

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, by removing the part of the API they use.

The part of the API that a group finder mod would use (pretty much the only part other than the windowing system so it could create windows, which they also cant break) is the ability of mods to write to a chat channel (this was later changed to an invisible channel that all mods use, but early in Vanilla it would just create or join a common chat channel and make it invisible - this is how threat meters worked).. and that is a VERY basic ability that nearly any mod that communicates with the client or with other players' clients uses.

If they deprecated that, about 80% of add-ons would break.



They didn't block its use. They removed the API function that allowed it to auto-join groups, but let the in-game group finder do this (and stole about 70% of oQueues features for the in-game group finder, as well, but hey, thats how Add-ons SHOULD work - if the community comes up with something awesome, Blizzard SHOULD be stealing it and integrating it in the retail client) so people just quit using it because you could still use oQueue to see groups that were listed but then the group leader had to manually invite you. (Also deprecated was the ability for the raid/group leader to automatically queue everyone by simply pressing HIS button, each person had to individually queue.).



Well, get ready to be disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -



The facts of how it worked are a little off, but the core is true:

There was a group finder worked into the meeting stones from like.. Patch 1.06 or something onward.

You could only use it at the meeting stone or (later, in a later patch.. 1.08?) by talking to an Inkeeper.

It didn't teleport you to the dungeon, but it found you a group.

I love how fast blizzard proved you wrong on this one

[Drusin]

LFG addon doesn't matter, we will find a replacement, there's probably already a classic wow discord out with LFG that I'm unawares of. Or someone will make a stand alone program we'll all use.

What I'm looking forward to is people being upset when they get told to go and use these out of game services to find groups lol.

[crusadernero]

Social interaction is not a feature. It's decided by people. And I still play MMO's, I communicate with people. But, I don't at all view organizing groups as conversation. Loose talk is. Like "so how do you guys like the latest patch" or something, that's conversation. I am very rarely interested in such things, and usually, others aren't either. It depends on the game of course, and if it fosters positive interactions, which encourages people to be more social.

WoW is both good and bad for this, but it is ultimately people who decide if the community is good or bad.

You can be in a guild and barely say anything at all. If you show up reliably, and do your job, some guilds will prefer those over someone talkative, but not reliable or not even engaged in raiding or pvp, whichever the guild likes doing.

You can say very little, but still be polite, and you can be very talkative, and still be the biggest asshole on the planet.

I am not the demographic for classing, that is entirely correct. But it's not just because I don't like classic as a game (having played it for a while), but it's also because I don't like much of the wow community, and I rarely feel at home in a guild. I do not demand that things get catered to me, it is an mmo, so the community matters, and I have unfortunately seen way more up-tight and snobby people about wow, past and present, than say, GW2, FFXIV or even Warframe. Last one is technically not an mmo, but you can still interact with a lot of other people.

I am merely trying to offer a different viewpoint, as this is a forum for discussion, so different opinions can be discussed. And I personally find the community in wow at large to be more negative than positive. Guilds are closed communities with their own eco-systems, so using them in a generalisst term is difficult. Some guilds are just padding their numbers with whoever, others are very insular and have a very tight group of people. They can give very different experiences to their own members, versus a stranger. Friends aren't needed for anything. It makes things easier for someone who wishes to enjoy the game with friends. Pugging is entirely possible, but harder to organize.

It's the behaviour between strangers that matter the most to me here, because that is the better representation when it comes to an outside view of if this game is for you or not, when it comes community.

Hey, I understand and get what you mean. I just think that a core part of classic is just that way of getting in contant with people matters, if not much but a bit. Instead of a addon/feature doing the grouping for us, we ourself actually gotta do all the steps manually by contacting others. The difference is there, albeit maybe not huge.

With all the automated features in retail wow, it sometimes feel like we are running on rails with grouping addons that puts us together with AI for various content. It's almost like after all these years with autogrouping, we forget that its actually people behind every character. That might just be me though.

Personally I have noted how automated and non communitive the autogrps for dungeons, raids, pvp, WQs has become. Do dungeon - click a button. Do BGs - click a button. Do WQs - click a button. Its all automated and sort of bland. But hey, im there in retail doing these things. So maybe im the problem and not the game itself.

I dont know. I cant wait for classic and see how all of this plays out. Will be interesting for sure. Thanks for the debate!

[Halyon]

Hey, I understand and get what you mean. I just think that a core part of classic is just that way of getting in contant with people matters, if not much but a bit. Instead of a addon/feature doing the grouping for us, we ourself actually gotta do all the steps manually by contacting others. The difference is there, albeit maybe not huge.

With all the automated features in retail wow, it sometimes feel like we are running on rails with grouping addons that puts us together with AI for various content. It's almost like after all these years with autogrouping, we forget that its actually people behind every character. That might just be me though.

Personally I have noted how automated and non communitive the autogrps for dungeons, raids, pvp, WQs has become. Do dungeon - click a button. Do BGs - click a button. Do WQs - click a button. Its all automated and sort of bland. But hey, im there in retail doing these things. So maybe im the problem and not the game itself.

I dont know. I cant wait for classic and see how all of this plays out. Will be interesting for sure. Thanks for the debate!

To a degree I agree, however, don't underestimate things outside of WoW such as Discord and other means of forming groups, which people do. Hell, even I, a stodgy old codger with a hermit-complex, use Discord instead of so much other in-game stuff to socialize and such, because it's much easier. When I am in-game, I'm there to play and get things done, not chat with people. I can do both for sure, but I prefer to keep them seperate in the sense of focusing on what I'm there for.

Like if I just want to chat to people, have fun and enjoy just talking, then I'll usually do, and prefer, that over an outside chat-program, or voice chat with people I know very well. If I'm in-game I prefer to keep things focused on what I'm doing, or talk about stuff in relation to the game and what I'm doing/planning on doing and such.

For me, I don't think the features in wow are a problem, with streamlining grouping and such, it's fostering a good atmosphere and encouraging people to be friendly. Mob-tagging is a good one actually, because it removes the need for people to either be really aggro over mobs if they play solo, otherwise they won't get anywhere, or there's a group who does things comfortably with sharing, but everyone else can suck it. Raiding would be good for this, like it is in GW2, but since group-progress is disabled in a raid -group, there goes that option.

I was actually talking to a friend earlier, about some really good experiences I had in vanilla, but that was less so because of people I met in the game, it was because of already existing friend, and because we did things together.

But again, I am very introverted.

[Vorkreist]

I wish I could jump 2 weeks into the future when all these lfr heroes crying for LFG addons would have already quit classic.

[Tartys]

I wish I could jump 2 weeks into the future when all these lfr heroes crying for LFG addons would have already quit classic.

I bet Discord will be used in place of any LFG addons.

[Dartz1979]

Why do you even want to play classic? Sounds like you just want to play an easier version of retail wow.

Oh, and questing isn't a big part of classic. You do them once and then you're done with questing.

My concern is finding the quest locations don't wanna be doing one quest all day long.

[8bitNacho]

But you don't get to