Why not even an automatic LFG (without teleport) could ruin classic!

[Velerios]

People here are already complaining about how an LFG-Addon would ruin classic; that's absolutely ridiculous.

My opinion is: Not even an automatic LFG-Addon (that has teleport disabled) would ruin classic at all. People here are so overestimating the grouping up in classic. Sorry, but in reality in 90% of the time the only thing i said before the raid was: invite. That's all of the so called social interaction before the group was full.

Many groups didn't talked at all there. and even LFG could not ruin this at all with the premise that there was no teleport. I think that there are many reasons why WoW-Classic was so much better in social interactions.

First: DUNGEONS ARE NOT ONLY THE INSTANCE. Dungeons were better in Vanilla than sadly in every expansion later. There was a dungeon BEFORE the dungeon, with elites, so you couldn't simply go in there. Except for the endgame-dungeons, most leveling-dungeons required you do go in there and defeat some elite before the dungeon-entrace. They were by far not so easy and

Look at Maraudon: the best part of the dungeon was actually OUTSIDE of the dungeon. How beautiful the entrance was, how much you lost when you only teleported in. Dungeons should have already a difficulty before you join the instance. This feeling that your group is not the only one that challenge the dungeon, the quests that leads from outside into the dungeon, the feeling that you are already inside of it with many other groups AND that you not only join in as a group, but as a big world inside the dungeon makes classic in this regard SO MUCH BETTER.

The teleport actually ruins dungeons with the LFG-Addon, but not an automatic-search for group members itself.

Second: the next reason is: DUNGEONS ARE NOT HALLWAYS. Dungeons are more than: Trash - Boss - Trash - Boss - Trash - Endboss in a gigantic hallways. Look at BRD. You go into a CITY, Not a gigantic hallway. There were Secrets, there were closed doors, there were Quests that you need to do before you can actually do the dungeon at all. In Vanilla, Dungeons were dungeons, a mysterious place that you need to discover. There were many secrets, many hidden bosses, interactions, another corridor with either NOTHING or a HIDDEN BOSS, a special event, or whatever.

THAT IS THE CORE OF A DUNGEON.

Sadly because the most popular dungeon was Scarlet Monastery (but that's because leveling from 30 to 40 even in vanilla was the most easy there) blizzard decided to create dungeons like in scarlet monastery after all. Only a hallway, nothing more.

And Third: DUNGEONS ARE NO E-SPORT. E-Sport crap did not exist back then as it is now. Nowadays dungeons are sadly designed with speed and e-sport in mind to please their shareholders, because there's money on the table with e-sport. It doesn't matter that they ruins it for their core-audience: e-sport, money table: GIEF, that's the view of the shareholders.

It doesn't matter that dungeons became boring because of this. Ever since BC we only had hallway-dungeons, but there and WotLK, they were at least not as boring as they are now. Even back then they were quite some exceptions: Halls of Reflection, Halls of Stone (back then, it was not as easy and a cakewalk as it is now), Arkatraz with a significant higher difficulty, and so on.

Right now, Dungeons are simply all boring. Back then they were so much slower, you needed CC, you needed anything in your toolkit to challenge them, and they were so much more satisfactory. But now, the only premise is gogogo, fast faster fastest and pull anything that you can, it's all about speed. Back then, the trash were really challenging, but also satisfactory; and meaningful, since much of the dungeon-loot could also drop from them.
Sometimes, there were only a few trash that were difficult to kill, but when you killed them, you had a long way without any enemies at all. Sometimes there was an abundance of trash that you need to kill fast before they respawned.

Here we come to the Fourth reason: RESPAWN was also a meaningful factor in dungeons: Sometimes, when you wiped, you either need to do the whole dungeon-trash again or you better even resetted the instance. Yes, was it sometimes a real pain in the ass? For Sure, but RESPAWN allowed people to get better in the dungeon, since they knew: if they screw up now, they would not have a good time anymore.

Oh and last but NOT least: LFG was not only necessary in Dungeons. In Vanilla. we had dungeons that WERE NO DUNGEONS. ELITE QUEST ZONES like in the Hinterlands, where you had a big troll-city to go into. ELITE QUEST ZONES were far more attractive to social interactions than ANYTHING ELSE. That's something that is really missing nowadays. Quests where you needed to go into a group. That's nothing bad on them, the issue is nowadays not that there are dailys were you need to join a group, but that there

Also a reason why flying was probably a big mistake: They can't do elite-zones anymore with challenge in mind. You needed to go up to the troll-city to kill this enemy. then ride through it. You can't because they are killing you: group up with others who need to do it too. That leads to more social interaction, that leads to friendships.

Oh and something else too: When blizzard created Cross Realm Zones. Yes, CRZ are hated too, but not because they are cross realm. The BIG ISSUE IS that when blizzard created them, they totally destroyed the social interaction. Compared to CRZ, there are virtually no complains to connected servers. Because you can join a guild with someone on an connected server. That's not the case with CRZ, so when blizzard wants more social interactions and CRZ, they need to go the full way: make servers only in name, connect all realms, get rid of the barriers of raids and guilds and voila, you have a better way to interact with somebody. You want to join with someone else for a group-content and then maybe join a guild because it was so nice to talk with them: sorry, but the others are in another castle. That's the big issue with content nowadays.

Do you know what is missing from all the points i wrote right now: NOTHING had to do with how you grouped up. Sorry, but it's quite foolish to think that even an automatic-lfg or lfr addon would destroy classic, it doesn't matter HOW you group up, the interactions LATER are important.

And yes, you can probably find friends easier in a dungeon that takes 1-2 hours instead of 10-20 minutes. And back then in vanilla, both was possible: for people who had enough time to clear the whole dungeon; you could even be in there for the whole Day (not rare in BRD) or you could simply kill fast a few bosses, skipping the optional ones; much faster than anything else. Heck, i talked more through toilet breaks with the group than i do nowadays. Dungeons that takes so long that a toilet-break is necessary; that's a reason why vanilla worked.

But to think that it's important HOW you group up is quite naive. That's why not even an automatic LFG mode could not ruin WoW (as long as the teleport-option is disabled). Not to say an LFG-Addon that has nothing of the automatic-options that an official LFG had.

Oh and another thing about classic in the end: Ilvl-comparison is also not possible in classic, since much gear that is BIS has actually a lower ilvl. And ilvl were not that much apart from dungeon to raid gear. In fact, i wished blizzard would simply get rid of ilvl, instead bringing back the brain-factor. That's also something that would not work in any kind of LFG-Addon.

Vanilla was so much more than spamming in any kind of channel to look for members.

[Ticj]

I hope blizzard blocks the use of any LFG addons in classic.

[Kagthul]

I hope blizzard blocks the use of any LFG addons in classic.

literally the only way to do that would be to break the ability of all add-ons to write to a chat channel, which will break almost every add-on most people use, from threat meters to chat mods.

[Budong]

You typed a lot for saying so little.

I disagree with your post.

Good day.

[Bleu42]

Part of the gosh darn adventure was FINDING people to adventure with! Automatically putting together groups is just lazy.

I agree on a lot of your points OP, with the exception that you assert HOW we group up somehow doesn't have any impact at all on the game. It absolutely does, from having to go to a main city to talk / watch chat for groups that were forming, to starting your own group there or in the zone with the dungeon. I'm also confused why you point out that " reality in 90% of the time the only thing i said before the raid was: invite ". That doesn't pertain to the discussion most people are having; that statement is when you're in a guild, and about to raid with your team, not trying to form or join a group to go out into the world.

Adding in an LFG type addon won't DESTROY wow, alone. But it's a very bad start to the downward spiral a lot of us watched over the years; "quality of life" again and again, slowly removing any elements of actually having to participate in the game. Want to form a group? Yep, just hit your addon and invite people. Why even ask in city chat, or around the world in the zones you want to dungeon in, I mean it's just so tedious right?

And while we're at it, lets just throw some gear score numbers into the addon, and hopefully we can get a raider.io going!

Actually trying to find / start a group worked in vanilla, it's part of the difficulty.

[Ticj]

literally the only way to do that would be to break the ability of all add-ons to write the a chat channel, which will break almost every add-on most people use, from threat meters to chat mods.

They've found ways to block addons before, i'm sure they could do it with anything that becomes popular.

A group finding addon has been done before, and it negatively divides the playerbase between those who have it, and those that dont. Remember how Oqueue became basically essential because it was the best way to find pugs? If you didn't have Oqueue then you were missing out on a HUGE part of the game. Oqueue became so prevalent they ended up blocking its use in WoD so people would start using the new official group finder.

So when it comes to group finder, I do not think it should be allowed in classic. It's not something you can choose to avoid, as you are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont use one.

[FelPlague]

Part of the gosh darn adventure was FINDING people to adventure with! Automatically putting together groups is just lazy.

I agree on a lot of your points OP, with the exception that you assert HOW we group up somehow doesn't have any impact at all on the game. It absolutely does, from having to go to a main city to talk / watch chat for groups that were forming, to starting your own group there or in the zone with the dungeon. I'm also confused why you point out that " reality in 90% of the time the only thing i said before the raid was: invite ". That doesn't pertain to the discussion most people are having; that statement is when you're in a guild, and about to raid with your team, not trying to form or join a group to go out into the world.

Adding in an LFG type addon won't DESTROY wow, alone. But it's a very bad start to the downward spiral a lot of us watched over the years; "quality of life" again and again, slowly removing any elements of actually having to participate in the game. Want to form a group? Yep, just hit your addon and invite people. Why even ask in city chat, or around the world in the zones you want to dungeon in, I mean it's just so tedious right?

And while we're at it, lets just throw some gear score numbers into the addon, and hopefully we can get a raider.io going!

Actually trying to find / start a group worked in vanilla, it's part of the difficulty.

idk if you know
but LFG was in vanilla.
in multiple ways, there was the original system like we have now in current wow where you sign up to join groups, it was super shitty and only worked if you stayerd near the stone.

there was also literally "qeueu for dungeon and eventually you will be put in a group with epople"


For awhile in vanilla you could go to an inkeeper and queue for any nearby dungeon, then it would group you with 4 random other people and you would go do the dungeon. Although issue is that it didnt care about spec,s so usually you ended up with 5 dps.

[Kagthul]

They've found ways to block addons before,

Yes, by removing the part of the API they use.

The part of the API that a group finder mod would use (pretty much the only part other than the windowing system so it could create windows, which they also cant break) is the ability of mods to write to a chat channel (this was later changed to an invisible channel that all mods use, but early in Vanilla it would just create or join a common chat channel and make it invisible - this is how threat meters worked).. and that is a VERY basic ability that nearly any mod that communicates with the client or with other players' clients uses.

If they deprecated that, about 80% of add-ons would break.

i'm sure they could do it with anything that becomes popular.

A group finding addon has been done before, and it negatively divides the playerbase between those who have it, and those that dont. Remember how Oqueue became basically essential because it was the best way to find pugs? If you didn't have Oqueue then you were missing out on a HUGE part of the game. Oqueue became so prevalent they ended up blocking its use in WoD so people would start using the new official group finder.

They didn't block its use. They removed the API function that allowed it to auto-join groups, but let the in-game group finder do this (and stole about 70% of oQueues features for the in-game group finder, as well, but hey, thats how Add-ons SHOULD work - if the community comes up with something awesome, Blizzard SHOULD be stealing it and integrating it in the retail client) so people just quit using it because you could still use oQueue to see groups that were listed but then the group leader had to manually invite you. (Also deprecated was the ability for the raid/group leader to automatically queue everyone by simply pressing HIS button, each person had to individually queue.).

So when it comes to group finder, I do not think it should be allowed in classic. It's not something you can choose to avoid, as you are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont use one.

Well, get ready to be disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -

idk if you know
but LFG was in vanilla.
in multiple ways, there was the original system like we have now in current wow where you sign up to join groups, it was super shitty and only worked if you stayerd near the stone.

there was also literally "qeueu for dungeon and eventually you will be put in a group with epople"


For awhile in vanilla you could go to an inkeeper and queue for any nearby dungeon, then it would group you with 4 random other people and you would go do the dungeon. Although issue is that it didnt care about spec,s so usually you ended up with 5 dps.

The facts of how it worked are a little off, but the core is true:

There was a group finder worked into the meeting stones from like.. Patch 1.06 or something onward.

You could only use it at the meeting stone or (later, in a later patch.. 1.08?) by talking to an Inkeeper.

It didn't teleport you to the dungeon, but it found you a group.

[Gorgodeus]

They've found ways to block addons before, i'm sure they could do it with anything that becomes popular.

A group finding addon has been done before, and it negatively divides the playerbase between those who have it, and those that dont. Remember how Oqueue became basically essential because it was the best way to find pugs? If you didn't have Oqueue then you were missing out on a HUGE part of the game. Oqueue became so prevalent they ended up blocking its use in WoD so people would start using the new official group finder.

So when it comes to group finder, I do not think it should be allowed in classic. It's not something you can choose to avoid, as you are shooting yourself in the foot if you dont use one.

That is not why oQueue was stopped. It was because it was mainly designed for premade bg groups at the height of its popularity.

[AceofH]

Yes, by removing the part of the API they use.

The part of the API that a group finder mod would use (pretty much the only part other than the windowing system so it could create windows, which they also cant break) is the ability of mods to write to a chat channel (this was later changed to an invisible channel that all mods use, but early in Vanilla it would just create or join a common chat channel and make it invisible - this is how threat meters worked).. and that is a VERY basic ability that nearly any mod that communicates with the client or with other players' clients uses.

If they deprecated that, about 80% of add-ons would break.



They didn't block its use. They removed the API function that allowed it to auto-join groups, but let the in-game group finder do this (and stole about 70% of oQueues features for the in-game group finder, as well, but hey, thats how Add-ons SHOULD work - if the community comes up with something awesome, Blizzard SHOULD be stealing it and integrating it in the retail client) so people just quit using it because you could still use oQueue to see groups that were listed but then the group leader had to manually invite you. (Also deprecated was the ability for the raid/group leader to automatically queue everyone by simply pressing HIS button, each person had to individually queue.).



Well, get ready to be disappointed.

- - - Updated - - -



The facts of how it worked are a little off, but the core is true:

There was a group finder worked into the meeting stones from like.. Patch 1.06 or something onward.

You could only use it at the meeting stone or (later, in a later patch.. 1.08?) by talking to an Inkeeper.

It didn't teleport you to the dungeon, but it found you a group.

Yeah but it did not factor in tank + healer + 3 dps. It just grouped 5 people

[Kagthul]

That is not why oQueue was stopped. It was because it was mainly designed for premade bg groups at the height of its popularity.

And when they removed the ability for the group leader to auto-queue the entire party, it pretty much broke the usefulness for that activity.

[Gorgodeus]

And when they removed the ability for the group leader to auto-queue the entire party, it pretty much broke the usefulness for that activity.

Actually oQueue lost zero usefulness for PvP during its lifetime. Every time Blizzard did something to impact the add-on, it was immediately coded to work around whatever Blizzard happened to do. Blizzard finally had to actually prevent it from working altogether.

[Fascinate]

I dont think this is something we need to worry about, the classic community for the most part understands that these addons are not conducive to the game. The people that are going to be using addons like this are not the type that are going to stick around anyways.

[munkeyinorbit]

I dont think this is something we need to worry about, the classic community for the most part understands that these addons are not conducive to the game. The people that are going to be using addons like this are not the type that are going to stick around anyways.

I used them and I've stuck around for almost 15 years. I'll use them again and the fact I use them will not impact on my decision to continue playing. Your statement is ridiculous.

[Fascinate]

I used them and I've stuck around for almost 15 years. I'll use them again and the fact I use them will not impact on my decision to continue playing. Your statement is ridiculous.

Its ridiculous cause one random in a thread said they would use it lol? Again i said for the most part, these sorts of addons never caught on with massive popularity in vanilla nor will they in classic. There are going to be much worse addons being created for classic but it does not mean we need to make threads about them, these sorts of things work themselves out.

[Alkizon]

literally the only way to do that would be to break the ability of all add-ons to write to a chat channel, which will break almost every add-on most people use, from threat meters to chat mods.

Sounds brilliant, I'd take it

[Rusken]

I don't see an LFG addon being necessary in Classic. Consider what they've said regarding realm populations, queues etc. There's going to be so many bloody people on most servers that finding people for your groups will be super fast and easy, especially in the early phases when it counts.

[Gorgodeus]

I don't see an LFG addon being necessary in Classic. Consider what they've said regarding realm populations, queues etc. There's going to be so many bloody people on most servers that finding people for your groups will be super fast and easy, especially in the early phases when it counts.

Or use an LFG addon that reads chat for you, so that your eyes don't start bleeding from staring at a quickly scrolling chat channel full of rubbish.

[Tarba]

The actual grouping system is pretty good. I'm not talking about the automatic one.
And it would be a better one, than the one we had in vanilla. Which was horribly designed. Or the flood /2

[Jimmyw]

Stop making posts about this shit. It wont catch on you have retail for that. Go back to that please