World First Ragnaros and Onyxia Kill on Classic by APES - Gehennas EU

[Devilyaki]

You are prolly BfA kid who tried level classic and died to level 6 owl and removed the game

Nope died a bunch but still clawing my way threw it. My retail character is my original vanilla character so I been there done that once already.

[Todd Duval]

Most of the damage in MC is fire damage. They used Mind Control to get an unintended fire resist buff from a NPC and gave it to the whole raid. The fire resist buff completely trivialized the content, and made them able to take only a small amount of damage from EVERYTHING.

Sure they had years of practice, but if you watched the video, I don't see years of practice at all. It all came down to the fire resist buff trivializing everything.

[gobarj]

Congrats to them but let’s clear one thing up for those think it was a joke back then:

The vanilla version was a new game where people had to get to 60, no one really knew each other and guilds weren’t already set up in advance to go into MC. No tactics, Addons like today or anyone having any clue what to expect, not to mention they had to first have enough players formed in a guild and then attuned. The original kill was also done way before 1.12, MC received nerfs and classes had buffs, so a different deal again. The levelling was also much slower back then.

As much as people like to compare vanilla with classic, it is not the same when you have all answers in front of you. It is like taking the same test twice, so you know what to expect.

Same logic applies to farming gear or supplies for aq40 and beyond, people will do it in advance and then compare how long it took in vanilla vs now.

[Tang0]

But did the content of Vanilla actually change in Classic or are you just talking about us having better computers and access to more Youtube/internet material? Is there a difference between green items in Vanilla and green items in Classic?

You Say itemization, then explain experience and offer nothing about itemization.

Its been 13-15 years since I played vanilla, can you cite SPECIFIC examples of loot itemization being different in Classic opposed to Retail Vanilla?

There is a VERY extensive list of itemization changes that happened from 1.0 to 1.12. You can read all of that to your hearts content. Those include a lot of behind the scenes tweaks to many core numbers in the game, that turned a lot of things in favor of players. Those would not be directly represented on the items themselves most of the time.

But i get your questions, and those examples that you are asking for are aplenty, I will indulge you with a couple and if you would want to you can work from there in the same pattern.

Let's take a breastplate of might as a first example:

The Vanilla version had: 749 armour, 7 agility, 20 strength, 7 spirit, 28 stamina and 8 to both fire and shadow resistances. honorable mention - 8 resistance in early days gave you fuckall protection. Also, the set bonus for might was pretty mediocre, but i find it really hard to find what it was originally.

Now, the classic piece is a reworked one, https://classic.wowhead.com/item=168...plate-of-might
20 str, 28 stm, 10 fire res, 3% block chance, 7 defense. The set bonus is pretty useful as well. The caveat is - this 10 fire res was after the rework to defensive stats. So it was miles ahead of the 8 res on original. Also defense was an extra new layer of protection granted by stats, before that it was only armor for phys and resists for magic, nothing else. And all those changes to pieces actually added up really quickly.

Even the minor things got changed. Valor chest, while not receiving any stat changes, had set bonuses revamped. it changed from 50 armor to 200. From 20 attack power to 40, from 1% stun chance to a self heal, from 2thorn dmg to +8 all res. All those little things along with formula changes actually made a big impact. That was just from one patch in the middle of the road. Classic boast all the good things that changed throughout vanilla.

[Queen of Hamsters]

So beside the """""difficulty"""""" of Vanilla, we clearly saw that a Retail Guild, one of the best, didnt accomplished nothing.

That's a good point!
Now we can hope to see APES come to Retail and do the same thing for the next tier there!

[McNeil]

I think I must've seriously missed out on something from visiting the board in the past 10 years. Where are all these people who always said ''Classic raids are hard!'' ''they are harder than in retail!''? The one thing I see people praising vanilla for is the leveling experience and the sense of character progession, I very rarely hear from people that the raids were hard.

[Vrinara]

There's still people like you that didn't realise that it was a video playing saying those things? lol

Wait are they saying it? Cause I didn't watch the vid. I assumed they weren't shouting it at the top of their lungs lol.

[Eapoe]

That kind of sounds like a bogey man to me. There are only retail players and pserver players. Classic supporters would majorly be of the pservers group for obvious reasons and we knew what was going to happen. Only retail players could lack the foresite to see this outcome.

- - - Updated - - -



What are you arguing?

Ah, the people who make things up to satisfy their points.
Classic has supporters from PS players, retail players, and even people who no longer play.
There are plenty of forums on mmo-c that show retail players talking about how easy it is compared to today’s raids. You know, one of the many big topics Classic supporters tried to disprove and even had streamers talk about how difficult raids were in Vanilla.
You can doubt it all you want to make it seem like retail players are the big bad guy to your Classic dream, but anyone with some time on their hands and/or who followed along with the topics on mmo-c thru the last year knows better.

[Makabreska]

Aaaand Method 1 shot.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I think I must've seriously missed out on something from visiting the board in the past 10 years. Where are all these people who always said ''Classic raids are hard!'' ''they are harder than in retail!''? The one thing I see people praising vanilla for is the leveling experience and the sense of character progession, I very rarely hear from people that the raids were hard.

Yep, you must've missed out on it.

As someone having partaken and being attacked in many MANY suck debates over the years, I didn't miss out on it. Literally every tier when Method or whomever got the final boss down, there'd be this whole debacle on how "if Vanilla, it would've taken a hundred + days lol!" going around from the Muhnilla crowd. People would then argue that no in fact, it wouldn't if Classic came out again, but that fell on deaf ears/too thick nostalgia goggles.

That's before counting the randos just trying to make that argument wherever.

No doubt most of it came from certain content creators spreading mass delusion.

What is your endgame

Really? More of your one-liners?
Well: This is a discussion forum, people add their thoughts to it and that's about the whole deal. If you don't understand the point, might I suggest reading up on the topic? Fyi, I have the same right to be here and post as anyone else. If you're concerned with some deeper meaning, look at yourself first and how you're literally responding to points made with insipid one-liners. Just a friendly suggestion.

Or you're just doing very weak attempts at deflection and gaslighting lite, in which case you're just worthy of a report.

[Adviceanon]

Yep, you must've missed out on it.

As someone having partaken and being attacked in many MANY suck debates over the years, I didn't miss out on it. Literally every tier when Method or whomever got the final boss down, there'd be this whole debacle on how "if Vanilla, it would've taken a hundred + days lol!" going around from the Muhnilla crowd. People would then argue that no in fact, it wouldn't if Classic came out again, but that fell on deaf ears/too thick nostalgia goggles.

That's before counting the randos just trying to make that argument wherever.

No doubt most of it came from certain content creators spreading mass delusion.

What is your endgame

[Yunaqt]

Rag seems pretty hard with mechanics such as move out of melee and he doesn't do it.

Regardless, i'm heavily enjoying Classic, but I didn't go into this thinking it was going to be the pinnacle of my raiding experience. Still logging on for raids on retail.

[Frozenbro]

"if Vanilla, it would've taken a hundred + days lol!" going around from the Muhnilla crowd.

Oh i remember clearly, the "lul game nowadays is too easy, where are the good old days of classic where bosses took months" and here we are, watching the meme that classic is and will continue to be, yesterday many people's nostalgia glasses were shattered, and i hope they continue to.

[Fitsu]

Dont forget fixed classes, talents and other stuff like the debuff limit being higher makes the encounter easier. They also stacked fire protection potion making it significantly easier, especially during sons spawn

Any confirmation the debuff limit is higher? Also what "fixed classes & talents"?

[Lightshadow86]

Any confirmation the debuff limit is higher? Also what "fixed classes & talents"?

Debuff limit at the start of Vanilla was 8. So back in the day, when they did Ragnaros at the start, it was with only 8 debuff slots. Same with all classes, you want to see the old talent trees, and how much the final 1.12 talents are much better? OLD TALENTS, go to this and check what we had in vanilla start (change class in url). Every patch, changed classes and "revamped them". Content was harder, because generally all classes where much worse the earlier you go in vanilla.

[Apexis]

So much for all this nonsense I have both heard and read for my 12 years of playing WoW. What a joke! This proves that it was more about tech, hardware, software, Internet speed and all the rest I had more to with the game back then. Tedious has been used as a means of claiming the level of difficulty. I will give the rose-color glass brigade this much, questing was made more difficult than it was a result of having to stand there and beat a bore to death until one's talents and weapons skills got high enough to one-shot the bore.

Progression was forced into being slow but is not any different than it is today. It just feels and seems like it is faster. Blizzard either artificially and/or deliberately slowed progression, or Blizzard did not at the time possess the tech they now have to make progression smoother and faster, as well as removed the barriers that slowed progression from place to place and expansion after expansion or they did both of these things over time.

The only thing that made the beginnings of this game better was due to bulk of the community able to hold their egos in check for the betterment of the game and the community itself. It was not the content itself that did all that, it was people themselves that did all that. At some point towards the end of Wrath that all slowly started to change and not for the better. The game has been limping along ever since.

These kills prove that the game was not as difficult as it seemed or as one thought that it was. There were both natural and forced limitations that made the game slower, not harder back then.

[OrcsRLame]

To all the morons who don't understand that these people have killed these bosses for hundreds of times over the last 15 years, to all the imbeciles who don't understand that the vast majority of the player base is nowhere near such a feat, shut the fuck up with that LFR crap.

Your opinion is fucking stupid. You could mind wipe the player base of all their boss specific knowledge and it would make very little difference.

You actually just claimed that it would be hard for good guilds to figure out these boss mechanics when in the past guilds have had to figure out things like secret phases with no outside help. https://www.wowhead.com/guldan-night...hic-difficulty

Read that shit. Read The Demon Within. That has more mechanical complexity than all of vanilla combined and top guilds had to figure it out on the fly after a difficult boss fight. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about if you think that experience on the bosses themselves matters at all.

[Sulika]

I've been arguing this for a decade by now in the face of countless of deluded people thinking Classic content at any point beyond 2009 (or even TBC, arguably) would pose the same challenge it did to the new players of 2004.
There's no pretending, and "the smarts" it takes just comes down to fucking common sense.

Yes, I knew this would happen, Private server players are insanely dedicated and the content is so rudimentary they make up their own games to make things more challenging as they run said content (timed clears etc)
What I was NOT prepared for however, was how they'd clear the content without a full team of level 60's. That's another testament to their knowledge of the game version that they play.

Care to link to any past post where you mention this? There must be a ton of them since you have been arguing it with countless people for over a decade.

[frott]

People are acting as if WoW Classic has been "cleared", this is about as accurate as saying that WotLK ended
when Ensidia cleared WotLKs first tier endgame within 3 days of release.

So, it is accurate then? WOTLK is not the same, anyway, because 1st tier WOTLK was a rehash of old content. What is the same is that naxx was cleared so fast due to previous experience. As all of classic will be... because people did it already, it's spoiled, and there are 15 years of experience in these dungeons.

It has been cleared. It was cleared ~15 years ago.

APES is so far from being a representative of the average player you can get.

Being impressed or even interested in what "the average player" accomplishes is pointless. When do you draw the distinction?


WoW Vanilla was a SOCIAL GAME. There were no spoilers, there wasn't even "strategies" posted immediately because people were just interested in figuring things out for themselves.

This is about as interesting to me as someone clearing a remastered Super Mario Brothers, and you stating "it's not the same because speedrunners have been practicing on it for decades!"

Zzz.

I mean, it's not the same because the game isn't the same. The addons weren't the same. The knowledge wasn't the same. The playerbase (from EQ and other crude MMOs) wasn't the same.

Getting mad that this horrid excuse for a game is beaten in less than a week because it was stripped of 100% of the socializing for progress is laughable.

B-b-b-but the AVERAGE players sits in a hub spamming chat to find groups! Zzz. That is done.


It is such a complete joke that this is even cleared before Dire Maul releases.


I guess it is a problem because the people who either missed the game the first time around aren't even remotely in the running for any sort of gratification and the social aspect just isn't the same with these bozo streamers, "race to the first" by entities that don't even come in first x3, and stripped of what made the original so engrossing: social interaction.

[Adviceanon]

Really? More of your one-liners?
Well: This is a discussion forum, people add their thoughts to it and that's about the whole deal. If you don't understand the point, might I suggest reading up on the topic? Fyi, I have the same right to be here and post as anyone else. If you're concerned with some deeper meaning, look at yourself first and how you're literally responding to points made with insipid one-liners. Just a friendly suggestion.

Or you're just doing very weak attempts at deflection and gaslighting lite, in which case you're just worthy of a report.

I think you might have psychological issues