Why exactly are people so anti-LFR?

[Nebron]

Even, if there would be no practica reasons to delete the LFR, there's still the idea of MMO aspect here.

The idea of finding group to go together and kill some raid bosses is the most socializing aspect in PvE. LFR had to be socializing, just like other tools that made finding group way easier - but in fact, it's absolutely the opposite.

I have never liked LFR, and I have always been the enemy of it. But now that I played Classic for a while, boy oh boy, that's what I miss.

Nevertheless, there are countless practical reasons to delete the LFR, like LFR is making the raid gear less rewarding. 50% afk and after the kill they trade the loot with those who do not need it. After completing the entire raid, they have a full set of gear.

I wonder how it is possible that people still discuss this topic. LFR, LFD and quest tracking are the cancer that killed this game and made players both toxic and lazy, at least the way these work today.

I have nothing against QoL changes, but these systems ruined the core of this game.

[Valentinian]

Some people are anti-LFR because they want to feel special. It's that simple.
They don't like the fact that players can go into an easier version of what they consider to be the "right" difficulty, where they can experience the lore/fights, and get some medicore loot.
It boils down to people being selfish, more or less.
And trust me, ego/selfishness is something we have a lot of!

No. In the past I suggested something like LFR. For the reasons you say: To give more content, to remove barriers that were especially annoying to some players. etc. In theory it still sounds like a good idea. And personally, I will never raid again so it should suit me. However, I don't think it's good for the game.

People often don't know exactly why they like something. And giving someone what they think they want doesn't always work out.

It just feels like a really shit experience, which doesn't accomplish anything but give you loot. This means a) you want (or feel you need) to keep doing something rubbish and b) it devalues other sources of loot. The gear check and the automated nature of joining feels really contrived and unnatural; It's like giving yourself over to some robot who teleports away then back again. And then if you get the sense that this is probably going to be the apex of the game for you, it's probably going to affect your perception of it.

Maybe your experiences are different?

I'm not saying I stopped playing because of LFR, but it does seem symptomatic of why the game seems a bit rubbish.

[Raelbo]

WoW had more subs without LFR, i'm sure it would do fine.

False.

WoW had more subs back then because it was new and it was able to compensate for any sub losses with new players. I actually suspect that the game lost far more subs back then than today, it just wasn't that visible because of the constant influx. Remember, by Blizzard's own admission, they've had well over 100M players play this game over the years (quoted in 2014). At the time the game had about 10M players? That implies that they lost 90M players over a period of 10 years (average 9M per year). And I can tell you right now that the game isn't gaining much new blood, so it's probably lost only around 5M in the last 5 years (average 1M).

LFR was a direct response by Blizzard to reduce sub losses. And while it is, of course, impossible to know for sure what impact LFR has actually had without someone doing some real research into the question, I do find it hard to imagine a plausible scenario in which LFR has not played a critical role in stabilising the game population.

[Big Thanks]

Could you please explain how LFR trivializes MYTHIC Raids??? right, beause it doesnt. All LFR does is giving everyone and his mom to see the content the developers created and not just the 0.1% of raiders.

When there is LFR, it devalues the Normal mode.

HELL with so many difficulties we have right now, they devalue eachother. Its really confusing right now.

I used to love raiding because i KNEW i was in a special place where i WOULDNT be if i didnt put in the work.
I stepped inside a raid and i thought: DAMN, this shit is epic. I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for my commitment to the game.

Raiding was a special place to be in.
It ceases to be a special place when there is a crapton of difficulties such as LFR.

The creator of LFR agrees with me. I know the guy, i have him on speed dial.

[porkchopdoritos]

That is not at all the reason.

I'm against LFR because it trivializes difficult content, rewards players for doing almost nothing, and makes guilds and group content irrelevant. Recruiting was much easier before LFR became a thing, partially because many people raid out of a desire to witness the content and the raid.

The people that actively run LFR are not people that would've been active people in a guild or constantly looking for groups, so this is completely irrelevant.

[12yoPlayedSinceClassic]

I think this might be the most ridiculous thread ever.

- - - Updated - - -

When there is LFR, it devalues the Normal mode.

HELL with so many difficulties we have right now, they devalue eachother. Its really confusing right now.

I used to love raiding because i KNEW i was in a special place where i WOULDNT be if i didnt put in the work.
I stepped inside a raid and i thought: DAMN, this shit is epic. I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for my commitment to the game.

Raiding was a special place to be in.
It ceases to be a special place when there is a crapton of difficulties such as LFR.

The creator of LFR agrees with me. I know the guy, i have him on speed dial.

More option = more value. What you are saying is complete nonsense and contradiction.

If you want to raid go do Mythic and make sense. Because truth is, we have this many options, so the casual and the most hardcore can play the game.

[Big Thanks]

More option = more value. What you are saying is complete nonsense.

could you explain?

[Kohtra]

Blizzards past statements say you are wrong and they hold much more weight then you.

LFR justifies raiding content and that has came from Blizzard more than once. LFR has been in WoW longer than it hasn't and its about time people like you get over it.

You really should stop trying to bite the hand that feeds you.

I guarantee you more than 1% of the player base saw Ulduar and all the raids of Wrath. I'm sorry but bad game design is bad game design. WoW has had lots of very terrible design systems for years. It hurts the game regardless of how long they have been here and getting rid of them is a good thing.

[12yoPlayedSinceClassic]

could you explain?

No, you explain?

How does LFR make your life harder, since you complain?

[Lurker1]

From a progression standpoint, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to step foot into LFR - you can get as good or better gear just by doing dailies. The only reason anybody does LFR is likely because it's a way for them to see content they otherwise wouldn't see likely because they're too busy to be in an active raiding guild or don't care to invest that much time into the game. So what exactly is the problem with allowing "casuals" to see this content when they're not even being rewarded for it? Why is LFR such a major talking point for classic fanboys and the like? How does it affect your gameplay at all? I personally don't use LFR and forget it exists most of the time so I struggle to understand why so many people have such an issue with it when the only thing people get from it is trash gear (hardly the "free epixx" people frame it as).

It's very simple really with LFR being thing nobody can force people to do stuff anymore aka control players lost it and hate it.

[Big Thanks]

No, you explain?

How does LFR make your life harder, since you complain?

Hey, i agree LFR is essential for the current modern game.
Im just trying to explain to you.

What made me love raiding was the fact that once i stepped inside the raid...i knew i was in a special place...and getting rewards i couldnt get anywhere else.
This feeling? This epic feeling is gone because of multiple difficulties among other things.

[Otimus]

I have a question I want to posit, to the people who want LFR gone, would you also be okay if like... seemingly 80% of content wasn't designed and balanced with raiding in mind if LFR is also removed? (Because that's pretty much why LFR has to exist. Blizzard seemingly only cares about raiding in a game where it isn't very popular, while seemingly being the thing they love the most about it.)

I personally think LFR is a very poor substitute for content for the demographic it's aimed at, and it's existence is there merely to distract people long enough that maybe they won't unsub right away, and even then, I think it's very poor at doing that, too.

This all goes back to what I said earlier. WoW's biggest problem is that it isn't, nor has ever been consistent in it's design and who exactly it's trying to make it's game for while Blizzard just wants to have it's cake and eat it too.

[Eosia]

so because you don't want to put in the time to face arthas, blizzard need to make a button for you to afk until the enter raid button pops?

And that would affect you how? Oh wait... IT DOESN'T.

And BTW - I was raiding in organized raiding and have since Tier 4. But thank you for playing...

[Kohtra]

And that would affect you how? Oh wait... IT DOESN'T.

And BTW - I was raiding in organized raiding and have since Tier 4. But thank you for playing...

Let me know what other game has an LFR equivalent. No other game does it because it's awful game design.

[Big Thanks]

And that would affect you how? Oh wait... IT DOESN'T.

Except it does affect me.

A raid ceases to be a epic place to be in...ceases to be a special place.
You used to think everytime you entered a raid that you WOULDNT be here if you didnt put in the work...if it wasnt for your commitment you wouldnt be here and you wouldnt be getting the sweet sweet rewards that could only come with raiding.

[Eosia]

Let me know what other game has an LFR equivalent. No other game does it because it's awful game design.

I don't. But I know a few that have solo modes instead. Like you get AI NPCs who will tank/dps/heal.. would you rather Blizzard do that?

Also, name me a game that had to recycle an entire raid that would be new for almost 100% player base.

Except it does affect me.

A raid ceases to be a epic place to be in...ceases to be a special place.
You used to think everytime you entered a raid that you WOULDNT be here if you didnt put in the work...if it wasnt for your commitment you wouldnt be here and you wouldnt be getting the sweet sweet rewards that could only come with raiding.

Mythic Difficulty says Hi!

[Khaza-R]

LFR is just a part of a larger systemic problem in WoW. Too many difficultly modes with no real difference other than getting higher ilvl loot. That's not a compelling reward structure. There's better ways to address accessibility imo.

[salate]

gear in lfr? whatever.

gear in lfr that titanforges to 445? problem.

You understand that 445 LFR piece happens like once in three-four months. When you have every week your weekly chest with tf/wf gear it doesnt even matter if one guy went once to LFR got his 445 item.

I havent seen a single person with whole 445 LFR gear. Titanforge can happen everywhere, yeah. But crying over 1-2 items during whole addon? Huh.

[TheDeeGee]

Because it gives you a false sense of accomplishment, that will lower your ambitions to actually do the content in the appropriate way: heroic/mythic with a group of friends.

Why force people into doing non-casual activities?

Like: "You MUST do Heroic/Mythic, else go play another game!".

Why?

Why?

Why?

[Kohtra]

I don't. But I know a few that have solo modes instead. Like you get AI NPCs who will tank/dps/heal.. would you rather Blizzard do that?

Also, name me a game that had to recycle an entire raid that would be new for almost 100% player base.

Solo modes in MMOs is also really idiotic design. If you wanted to play a single player RPG then go play a single player RPG. But even that isn't as bad as LFR if it is still at least very difficult content.

And don't be foolish thinking that before LFR the entire game was Naxxramas. It wasn't. Lots and lots of players did raid content during Wrath. Wrath was just casual enough that it was the first time I actually raided something, and it felt amazing. LFR just makes raids feel like useless shit. It makes everything feel like a kiddy game where we are all winners and you don't have to try or achieve anything to beat the game.