Why exactly are people so anti-LFR?

[Fred Skinner]

From my point of view, LFR is just no fun. It is one of those loveless implemented components the devs add if they do not want to add it. Based on a development bias.

25 foreigners get thrown into a matchmade group to play mechanics made for premade choreographed groups, just to show them the art and the final story. While the gameplay itself does not change from heroic or normal implementaion, the numbers are watered down. The people who get thrown into LFR are being put into content that was never designed for them, including the lazy implementation of LFR itself.

I would wish the developers would put more effort into the version of raiding content that reaches most of their customers, and would present a gameplay experience whch is worth playing. If i could give an advice, i would keep LFR in the game, just because it is massively popular, and add a solo mode to raids or dungeons (or even better a flex 1-x solution) to allow people to bypass the pain of having to group up with strangers, which is both no compelling gameplay and creates skyrocketed queue times based on the fact you need tanks and healers.

Beside the impression LFR is complete unfun, the rewards are also not worth playing LFR anymore. If world quests give an ongoing character progression, the lowest difficulty of the raiding content should as well.

[ManiaCCC]

People is in LFR because they're trash, otherwise Normal would take 1/4 of the time it takes to complete LFR.

Why else would you waste 6 hours queue time to be put in the same place with LFR heroes other than begging to get carried by Determination stacks.

6 hours queue? WTF happen to BFA? in Legion it took like 15 minutes to get into any raid via LFR.

[ManiaCCC]

Yes it absolutely is.

If you really believe this, your view is very limited.

[ManiaCCC]

Limited? I wouldn't call it call that..

Oh you wouldn't? So everything what doesn't fit into your "view, why people don't like LFR" you mark it as utter nonsense and you say your view is not limited? Okay...

Just here in this thread I saw several guys describing exact reasons, why I don't like LFR and I couldn't care less, how other people play this game or what they got or didn't get..I am not competitive but I guess these guys and me are just selfish pricks anyway.

Damn, I love these "i know better" guys..

EDIT: To make it clear for you, for me, LFR is more of the symptom of the problem and just removing LFR would not solve any issue.

[Frozenbro]

EDIT: To make it clear for you, for me, LFR is more of the symptom of the problem and just removing LFR would not solve any issue.

This pretty much, LFR itself isnt the issue (in my eyes), titanforging is, titanforging is the source of many issues of retail, removing it would esentially solve a lot of them and at the same time it would silence all the "i dont want this scrub to have good gear doing meaningless content" crowd.

[Advent]

it would silence all the "i dont want this scrub to have good gear doing meaningless content" crowd.

It... really wouldn't though. They've been around since TBC, and they have only gotten louder and more aggressive. They're not going anywhere.

[Loveliest]

MMO doesn't mean you have to socialize. You CAN if you want to. Forcing people to socialize - terrible idea.

Yes, it doesn't say specifically that you have to socialize. But, the genre itself implies that the fun (especially in repeating conetn) comes from interacting with others. How do you figure they can develop so much content to keep you entertained as a single player game?

[Aliven]

Yes, it doesn't say specifically that you have to socialize. But, the genre itself implies that the fun (especially in repeating conetn) comes from interacting with others. How do you figure they can develop so much content to keep you entertained as a single player game?

Ekhem, no.

Skinner box is what the genre is about.

[Loveliest]

I think LFR got a bad rep from the days it had sets and trinkets.
Here's the following scenario:
1. I'm a player who competes for world first
2. I HAVE to do bloody LFR to get those items from there, it's extra work for me
3. Naturally, I want to lessen my workload, but I can't directly bitch that I have to put in unnatural effort to win this race in as little time as possible
4. I make sure the rest of the people bitch in my stead, I need the masses to have the same pov. This can be done through streams, guides and stuff, putting LFR in a bad light
5. LFR becomes hated for whatever thousand reasons that ring true to the masses. For example, "it makes raiding pointless, I can see the end boss too soon" (as if we didn't have n difficulties and sizes and different lockouts before, when WoW was at its popularity peak).
6. LFR gets changed by Blizz many times. They remove sets and other stuff, they lower iLvl, they delay t he LFR so everyone can kill the last boss on normal before the boss is out. But here's the thing, people don't really think all that much, they just keep the hate going.
7. In the end, this is the internet. Once you hate something, you keep hating it, doesn't matter if it makes sense or not anymore.

[LuminaL]

An MMO thrives when people make emotional connections in-game. LFR destroys that because you can group for content without talking to anyone. There is NO compromise here because its CORE to the game to eliminate LFR.

Im both agree and disagree with your point, it surely helps said MMO a lot of people make emotional connection, but with todays toxicity in communities do you think this will happen? guilds nowdays want you to have cutting edge of every raid of the last 2 expacks, have near-mythic gears, have 1.6k score in Raider IO and crazy warcraft logs or your option is a casual guild that will most likely waste your time because people come not giving a shit about what time they should get online or dont even know the name of the boss they will face in the raid.

Im done looking for hardcore Mythic guilds, but I also dont want to waste 3 hours because of said reasons.

Edit: That being said I love to join a guild if they are atleast near my standards.

[Kaver]

EDIT: To make it clear for you, for me, LFR is more of the symptom of the problem and just removing LFR would not solve any issue.

What is the problem?

[ManiaCCC]

What is the problem?

In my opinion: Multiple raid difficulties and instant gear catch-up mechanics for iLvL of raid gear from previous patch. Most optimal way to play is don't play until the end of the expansion..and then play for one week or so and you are done.

EDIT: Also titanforging shit..

[scarletanh]

This pretty much, LFR itself isnt the issue (in my eyes), titanforging is, titanforging is the source of many issues of retail, removing it would esentially solve a lot of them and at the same time it would silence all the "i dont want this scrub to have good gear doing meaningless content" crowd.

I dont see how titanforging is that big of an issue when the chance for +10-15 ilvl is 1 in 50.000
Even if you have titanforged something, it's not gonna be better than heroic gear, and let just say you have super extreme dumb luck and get titanforged +30, so your lfr piece is heroic level, you need to multiplie that 11 more time cuz if only 1 piece is titanforged, it's not changing anything.

[RedTed]

Because clearly what a random guy (one might never ever meet again) does in an instanced place severely destroys others' gameplay, PvP, RP and baking sessions.

[Osmeric]

Those objecting to LFR are objecting to the demonstration that LFR is viable, but their own wet dream of a hardcore-only game is not.

They should learn to accept facts that make them sad.

[Frozenbro]

I dont see how titanforging is that big of an issue when the chance for +10-15 ilvl is 1 in 50.000
Even if you have titanforged something, it's not gonna be better than heroic gear, and let just say you have super extreme dumb luck and get titanforged +30, so your lfr piece is heroic level, you need to multiplie that 11 more time cuz if only 1 piece is titanforged, it's not changing anything.

Cause LFR would be affected as a consequence of removing titanforging, but i wouldnt remove titanforging cause of LFR, it should be removed cause ilvl inflation is on dumb lvls and it devaluates all the existing gear from X difficulty, also encouraging split runs, if you remove titanforge and only leave warforge, the gear progression would be more lineal and doing lesser difficulties wouldn't be that appealing anymore since gear would only go 10 ilvls higher, which is still under the next tier since every difficulty is separated by 15 ilvls, titanforge surpasses this diff, which is why it shouldnt exist at all.

[Mardux]

Cause LFR would be affected as a consequence of removing titanforging, but i wouldnt remove titanforging cause of LFR, it should be removed cause ilvl inflation is on dumb lvls and it devaluates all the existing gear from X difficulty, also encouraging split runs, if you remove titanforge and only leave warforge, the gear progression would be more lineal and doing lesser difficulties wouldn't be that appealing anymore since gear would only go 10 ilvls higher, which is still under the next tier since every difficulty is separated by 15 ilvls, titanforge surpasses this diff, which is why it shouldnt exist at all.

You're ignoring a pretty important part of titanforging. Chance...

You act like if something TFs, it will automatically be better than anything else. Thats simply false on most occasions. Sure, there's a possibility that something in normal can get 35 ilvl on a forge, but that is pretty astronomical. Even base TFs are a low chance.

[Frozenbro]

You're ignoring a pretty important part of titanforging. Chance...

You act like if something TFs, it will automatically be better than anything else. Thats simply false on most occasions. Sure, there's a possibility that something in normal can get 35 ilvl on a forge, but that is pretty astronomical. Even base TFs are a low chance.

Thats not the point, the point is that it happens regularly, yes dont pretend it doesnt cause it does, and this is the issue, the chance for an LFR item being better than a normal one shouldnt exist, the chance for a normal item being better than an heroic one shouldnt exist, and so on, you get the idea, the chance for this should be 0, thats why they should leave warforge in and remove titanforging, since it affects the linear progression that wow always had, im a cutting edge raider and we still do heroic runs cause surprise, titanforge still fucking exists, it should be removed for good, and yes it would indirectly affect LFR lucky drops, but who cares, you dont need an LFR titanforge for the content you do anyways.

[RemasteredClassic]

Very simple. It's not fun. Zero value, zero entertainment. I think people are focusing too much on LFR though because they can't easily pin point exact things in BfA to point out, but the truth is that they hate the whole game, it's just easy to pick on LFR.

If it was just LFR they hated, they would probably just tolerate it and focus on having fun, but they can't find fun in anything anymore. Blizzard is very lucky that Omar was able to make Classic work on the retail client, super lucky.

[Redroniksre]

Thats not the point, the point is that it happens regularly, yes dont pretend it doesnt cause it does, and this is the issue, the chance for an LFR item being better than a normal one shouldnt exist, the chance for a normal item being better than an heroic one shouldnt exist, and so on, you get the idea, the chance for this should be 0, thats why they should leave warforge in and remove titanforging, since it affects the linear progression that wow always had, im a cutting edge raider and we still do heroic runs cause surprise, titanforge still fucking exists, it should be removed for good, and yes it would indirectly affect LFR lucky drops, but who cares, you dont need an LFR titanforge for the content you do anyways.

Something needs to replace it then because if the vast majority finish their gearing in a month, what do you expect them to do? Why is it raiders should be the only ones with long term progression goals?