Returning player asking what wrong with BFA

[schnibba]

I've read a lot of comments about specific gameplay mechanics, but as a more PvE driven player myself, is the story worth enjoying it? I did like the more "global" enemy in the previous expansion, but when it was again "down to" Alliance vs. Horde I thought this might be not as interesting as it sounds. Am I wrong?

[Danvash]

BFA did a lot of things right. It's by no means a bad expansion, but it's not a good one either.

Class design is in the toilet with boring, stale gameplay across the board it seems. Things like island expeditions might actually be fun if we still had things like MoP shadow priest or WoD Brewmaster. I have a whole army of former mains now that were ruined in Legion or BFA for the sake of streamlining the game for people who don't want to bother to so much as read a guide on their class.

Legendaries and artifact weapons made some specs interesting by giving us more things to think about and optimize, but they were replaced with a crappy necklace.

And on top of all that are the GCD changes nobody likes.

The day to day gameplay in BFA is to just log in and grind the same thing you did every day for the past two months. If you don't get that azerite on the world map, you'll fall behind. It's better now with flying, but not by much.

[valky94]

Have not played since release month of legion and like all others came to check out classic. Now I have I wanna level in BFA on the side.

But I have heard rumors BFA is a bad expansion but can not find any info on why this is. Can anyone explain.

Follow up question as I have read a lot of comments. How solo friendly is wow now days. I like too level my toons, pvp and gold making on all my alts.

not much, its just the doomers being loud on the internet, to me it feels just like legion

but i agree with the people saying that the story sucks ass

[Danvash]

I've read a lot of comments about specific gameplay mechanics, but as a more PvE driven player myself, is the story worth enjoying it? I did like the more "global" enemy in the previous expansion, but when it was again "down to" Alliance vs. Horde I thought this might be not as interesting as it sounds. Am I wrong?

It's more complex than that. The Horde side has a lot of political intrigue. Alliance side is focused Jaina and her people rather than the Horde, which I also found very interesting to see play out.

This expansion is up at the top in terms of story content and atmosphere.

[deenman]

Exactly. well not just more loot, you are getting nuked by loot.
Most of the loot is complete thrash though. Useless. Either it's good or it's bad.

I understand the shareholders point of view. Creating an addictive system to keep players subbing might be good for business. The issue is, it has prove to not be as sub counts has been dropping since cata.

I know some people get dopamin highs opening that chest every tuesday or wednesday, or getting that titanforged proc, but casino-like addictive RNG systems shouldnt be what keep players subbing. Good gameplay should.

I dont rly disagree

[arkanon]

Read it again, you clearly don't understand what word objective means. I never stated my opinions for these points except for "raids are as good as ever", and the small point about demo lock which was just my personal opinion - hence small font.
Everything else is just facts including classes, the only specs that got reworked are combat -> outlaw, demo lock and hunter survi.

Stop, this will only get worse for you. You cannot claim that warfronts are objectively good or bad. No matter how you awkwardly try to frame it as an objective statement, it is an entirely subjective measure - enjoyment. Same goes for everything I listed - they are all absolutely subjective. Just stop, you have no idea of the difference between subjective and objective.

I won't even get started on you exclaiming that demon hunters are the same as the were in WoD. Never mind he FACT that all specs play vastly different to WoD, with no specs going untouched. What a stupid thing to say. So even your one "fact" is garbage, and objectively WRONG.

Wether those changes are good or not, that is subjective. I honestly think you need to look the word up.

[gallamann]

My thoughts....

Arezite Armor - multiple issues, that fact they have no secondary stats, the fact that it is basically a copy/paste of Legion Artifact weapon, complete RNG to get specific pieces with trait(s) needed for your spec, ring unlocks tied to AP. Can't WF/TF which makes WQ's giving az armor obsolete.

I PRAY that Blizzard is done with this Arifact/Azerite crap and we never see it again.

Raid encounter design - it's caster unfriendly, yet Blizzard wants casters too have to stand to deliver max DPS. Basically every boss is a gift to melee specs.

Essences are hugely alt unfriendly, I'd swap from caster to melee for raid if wasn't for essence/ap grind.

Some specs were built around certain levels of a secondary, for example frost mage needs 33.34% crit to make every shatter crit, yet can't reach that cap from 8.0 thru 8.2

The SHEER RNG of loot, you get one weekly M+ cache and it is complete crap shoot. This past week my character got pants, already had multiple 440 pants! Meanwhile there are 9 other slots on my toon where a 440 would potentially (again RNG) be an upgrade. Hell I remember first raid of BFA didn't get azerite armor from raid until 6th week in there! For my spec a 435 bentic azerite piece is BiS. M+ vendor should sell all items available in dungeon, then at least you could back fill a slot or 2 each season. With the removal of ML from raid, lost the ability to get a piece you want, instead now you pray that a guildie gets it and doesn't need it and already has an item of that ilevel in that slot.

Sockets - particularly on rings, can make a 415 more valuable that a 440, cloak 415+socket is better than my 430 cloak

Blizzard needs to add vendors for all gear from all content and tie the cost to currency that drops from that specific content, with an eye towards you can earn enough currency every 3-4 weeks to buy one item from that content.

[probert]

weakest expansion to date, tied with WoD.

WoD's mechanics were better, BFA has more 'content'.

Its not horrible. There's a good 10-20 hours of leveling experience and story. The first time doing an island, warfront, and the dungeons is moderately fun. 2 of the 4 raids were quite good mechanically. The art design is excellent, as is the soundtrack.

So its worth $20 and a month or two subscription. The grind is perpetual, if you want to be at hte cutting edge of mythic dungeons and raiding you'll be playing hours every day to keep up. As a casual its like cotton candy -- not much substance, but enjoyable in a small dose.

The story is god awful. Worse than Cataclysm, worse than WoD. Rumors are they're angling wow for a soft reboot, but i don't trust anyone on the writing team nowadays. its strayed so far from what Classic was that its an unrecognizable franchise now.

[Irian]

Class design has never been more shallow. Almost no passive effects on characters at all, and the loss of artifact weapons left a lot of holes in gameplay that weren't really patched up anywhere.

Endgame is shallow and forgettable. They noticed players had issues with tier sets interfering with the legendary system and made the novel decision to remove both, leading to forgettable raid rewards that are more or less just stat sticks with a minor effect here and there. Nothing tailored to your class to make gameplay in each a bit more unique, no nothing.

Azerite is the worst of artifacts without the parts of artifacts people like. It started out extremely flawed and while I haven't been subbed for 8.2 I've heard it's not a whole lot better. It also suffocates alt potential apparently.

Many of the classes that received redesigns in BfA became more flawed and broken, and several specs feel awkward as hell.

The lore reads like bad fanfic, and if you're interested in the story at all you're probably going to be irritated at something in the storytelling if you pay attention. They somehow masterfully crafted a concoction of a story that pleases absolutely nobody on any side of the faction line.

To top it all off, a lot of the new systems in BfA turned out to be half-baked or just downright boring. Warfronts are a glorified LFR raid and Island Expeditions are like a worse version of scenarios from MoP (and scenarios weren't particularly remarkable).

I would say you get your money's worth if you just do leveling and play extremely casually and don't stay subbed. For me, this was the first expansion that made me quit WoW.

[Playintrafic]

Actually I guess Dungeons and Mythic+ has been most fine apart from complaints about third party addons tied to it.

Probably the worst part of the entire expansion. Same old dungeons over and over again for the entire expac with a trash % bar and a timer. Mythic + is a snore fest and it basically boils down getting a tank and healer that can pull as much trash as quick as possible without dieing, and knowing optimal route to take so you don't pull even 1 extra trash mob.

- - - Updated - - -

My thoughts....

Arezite Armor - multiple issues, that fact they have no secondary stats, the fact that it is basically a copy/paste of Legion Artifact weapon, complete RNG to get specific pieces with trait(s) needed for your spec, ring unlocks tied to AP. Can't WF/TF which makes WQ's giving az armor obsolete.

I PRAY that Blizzard is done with this Arifact/Azerite crap and we never see it again.

Raid encounter design - it's caster unfriendly, yet Blizzard wants casters too have to stand to deliver max DPS. Basically every boss is a gift to melee specs.

Essences are hugely alt unfriendly, I'd swap from caster to melee for raid if wasn't for essence/ap grind.

Some specs were built around certain levels of a secondary, for example frost mage needs 33.34% crit to make every shatter crit, yet can't reach that cap from 8.0 thru 8.2

The SHEER RNG of loot, you get one weekly M+ cache and it is complete crap shoot. This past week my character got pants, already had multiple 440 pants! Meanwhile there are 9 other slots on my toon where a 440 would potentially (again RNG) be an upgrade. Hell I remember first raid of BFA didn't get azerite armor from raid until 6th week in there! For my spec a 435 bentic azerite piece is BiS. M+ vendor should sell all items available in dungeon, then at least you could back fill a slot or 2 each season. With the removal of ML from raid, lost the ability to get a piece you want, instead now you pray that a guildie gets it and doesn't need it and already has an item of that ilevel in that slot.

Sockets - particularly on rings, can make a 415 more valuable that a 440, cloak 415+socket is better than my 430 cloak

Blizzard needs to add vendors for all gear from all content and tie the cost to currency that drops from that specific content, with an eye towards you can earn enough currency every 3-4 weeks to buy one item from that content.

This guy makes a lot of sense TBH. If you aren't on a spec that is quite good a moving you wont have much fun in raids.

Thank god there is no Tier set anymore, because actually getting a tier set would be impossible now with ploot. Ploot is garbage, I have had so many pieces this expac just get vendored or destroyed because you can fucking vendor asserite that someone needed but I couldn't give them because ploot.

Benthic 420s should not be better than Raid Dropped Titan Forges, never the less that titan forges shouldn't exist.

Sockets should be an consumable.

This expac is one of the most alt-unfriendly expansions ever. You wanna play another class. Well have fun grinding your neck up be able to perform effectivly.

You want to even have crafting alts? Well you better get them exalted with every reputation, grind constant dailies, raid, and do mythic + on each one of them.

[infinitemeridian]

For me, it's mostly class design being watered down and content outside of M+ and Raids being easy and not fun. This has always been the case in WoW, but at least WQ were new in Legion - now they just feel copy-pasted with no form of improvement.

Otherwise, I greatly dislike the removal of class tier sets. It would be fine if the gear we got was good, but only BoD has had good sets, both Uldir and EP have terrible sets, and the only other decent sets are Warfronts, which are hard to obtain and gated behind unfun content.

Finally, I'm just sick to death of gear being the end-all-be-all for rewarding players for content. Give me more cosmetics, cool mounts, class "skins" like green fire, etc. Nothing fun about gear, it's just numbers for numbers sake. The game has always been like this, but it really has gotten old, especially with the improvement in 3D modeling and whatnot so you know they can get creative. BFA would be salvageable if it had some sort of challenging content for non-raiders to strive for, like the Mage Tower - a unique appearance that gives me a reason to gear up a character, not just so I can breeze through a WQ in 30 seconds as opposed to 2 minutes, which is the only purpose gear serves these days.

I don't do M+ because the requirements for getting into a group is pants on head retarded, the dungeons have way too much trash, and nobody gives you the time of day if you're not a DH / Rogue / DK. Hard to join a guild or form one because guilds are pretty much dead - I have no idea why the community feature didn't just replace guilds.

Next expansion needs to do the bare minimum for WoW to be a salvageable game in 2020:

1) Give classes much, much more depth and flash.
2) M+ seasonal cosmetic rewards (mounts, gear sets, pets, etc.)
3) Improve upon WQ and don't make them boring copy-paste of a quest I did while leveling that's basically the 2020 version of kill 10 boars.
4) Make guilds cross-server and improve the guild interface drastically.
5) Bring back class-specific sets, or just add more sets overall.
6) Add challenging non-raid content for solo players that gives us a reward that isn't just a higher ilvl piece (aka mage tower).
7) Bring back master loot
8) Get rid of titanforging
9) Give us a form of player or guild housing. I'd love a system like base-building in games like Subnautica or No Man's Sky - I know wow isn't built around this and couldn't have one in every zone, but maybe sectioning off an instanced "apartment" in the major faction capital cities and allow us to get creative with different architecture, functions, layout, etc.
10) Get rid of mob tagging for world-bosses and rares, but keep for fodder enemies. When was the last time you actually had to join a group to kill a rare? You just zerg them down because every one gets credit, group or not.
11) Legacy loot mode should include ALL previous expansions.
12) Don't get rid of Warfronts and Islands, actually improve them and make them fun.
13) Fix professions for the love of god - make them deep, useful, and fun.

[therealstegblob]

I consider BFA to generally be the worst WoW expansion, breaking a longstanding tradition of me considering each expansion to be better (in some meaningful way or philosophy of gameplay) better than the last.

My gripe with BFA is a singular, but major one, and that's Azerite Armor. It's fucking terrible, and really I consider it to be objectively bad game design. Artifact Weapons were pretty dumb and bad in Legion, but they weren't actively badly designed like Azerite Armor is. What is worse is that we're probably stuck with the concept and it'll be in every expansion for the rest of the game's life because it reflects super well on player retention (the whole reason it's in the game).

[kaminaris]

Stop, this will only get worse for you. You cannot claim that warfronts are objectively good or bad.

Because I did not claim it. And you just didn't read my post, read it again this time with full comprehension.

[Popastique]

Next expansion needs to do the bare minimum for WoW to be a salvageable game in 2020:

1) Give classes much, much more depth and flash - Agree
2) M+ seasonal cosmetic rewards (mounts, gear sets, pets, etc.) - Big YES
3) Improve upon WQ and don't make them boring copy-paste of a quest I did while leveling that's basically the 2020 version of kill 10 boars - What about new 3 in a row minigame?
4) Make guilds cross-server and improve the guild interface drastically - Not really needed, but interface could use some visual and functional update
5) Bring back class-specific sets, or just add more sets overall - Yeap
6) Add challenging non-raid content for solo players that gives us a reward that isn't just a higher ilvl piece (aka mage tower) - Agree
7) Bring back master loot - Not happening
8) Get rid of titanforging - Not happening
9) Give us a form of player or guild housing. I'd love a system like base-building in games like Subnautica or No Man's Sky - I know wow isn't built around this and couldn't have one in every zone, but maybe sectioning off an instanced "apartment" in the major faction capital cities and allow us to get creative with different architecture, functions, layout, etc. - Not happening
10) Get rid of mob tagging for world-bosses and rares, but keep for fodder enemies. When was the last time you actually had to join a group to kill a rare? You just zerg them down because every one gets credit, group or not - BIG NO, hate to wait for every group to tag and kill a rare, that feature is gone and should never come back.
11) Legacy loot mode should include ALL previous expansions
12) Don't get rid of Warfronts and Islands, actually improve them and make them fun - Agree
13) Fix professions for the love of god - make them deep, useful, and fun - Somewhat agree

Some things from the list above make sense

[GrinnersGrin]

BFA cope: The Thread.

m-muh it's actually good,m-muh bandwagon

[arkanon]

Because I did not claim it. And you just didn't read my post, read it again this time with full comprehension.

"Now completely objective review of BfA" <---- this is you. This is you stating that the following is your Objective review of BfA - what follows are entirely subjective opinions, on entirely subjective topics. The fact you continue to argue that whether someone enjoys an island expedition is an objective fact is horribly embarrassing for you.

You tried with the first one, you really did. You tried to say "well hey, some ppl like warfronts, and some dont, therefore, they are objectively NOT bad!" which is just an absolute shambles of context and logic. All that matters, is that the subject matter - in this case a persons enjoyment of a particular type of content, is absolutely, 100%, entirely SUBJECTIVE. Frame it however you want, it cannot be used as an objective fact to support an argument either way.

[Marrilaife]

Raid encounter design - it's caster unfriendly, yet Blizzard wants casters too have to stand to deliver max DPS. Basically every boss is a gift to melee specs.

Are we playing the same game???

Meanwhile mythic guilds are benching melee because of all the uptime they lose (stuff like cutting corals, Azshara adds spawning all over the place, swapping between the bosses on court) and the top dpsers are spriests, fire mages and locks.

Feeling rewarded and getting rewards are linked but at the same time very different. In this case, it's how you are getting so much loot left and right that it no longer feel rewarding. Just look at people on classic going nuts when they get a blue random drop while questing. On BFA you finish a run with a ton of epics that you have seen a thousand time already just in the past week.

Yep, agreed, gear lost its meaning because not only it's thrown at you left and right, but also has very short expiration date, nothing you wear now will have value next major patch, you'll replace it running much easier content than it took you now to obtain it, holds true across all difficulty levels. Gear resets used to happen every expansion, now they happen every patch.

Preach said somewhere around 8.1 that catchup became the game. And sadly he was right. Catchups like the name suggests was meant to let you get to the point where you can start playing the "real endgame", but for most people the catchup itself became the endgame and once it's exhausted, they unsub. Because after so lucrative and easy catchups everything else feels like: too much effort, too little reward.

And because gear lost its meaning, Blizzard started cramming stuff like ap or essence ranks to grind to create some form of illusion of long term progression. The problem with that is casuals can widely ignore it, so it doesn't even feel like "content" to them, while anyone more hardcore finds it as a hurdle to their "real" content (m+, raiding, rated pvp). So nobody really gains. Especially since these do not come from the content of your choice, but from pre-defined sources like reps, wqs, islands etc. which feel like an obstacle and a chore to do when all you're interested in is arenas, m+ or raiding.

It made more sense when progression was about gear, and to be better at pvp, you had to get gear from pvp, to succeed in raids, you had to get gear from raiding, etc. So everyone played their own content of choice and progressed within its own ladder.

[Lochton]

Have not played since release month of legion and like all others came to check out classic. Now I have I wanna level in BFA on the side.

But I have heard rumors BFA is a bad expansion but can not find any info on why this is. Can anyone explain.

I would suggest you go explore yourself. Some of the 'wrong' comments about Battle For Azeroth is more pity pickings than actual bad. The one thing that could be a bother is well - Azerite leveling.

Follow up question as I have read a lot of comments. How solo friendly is wow now days. I like too level my toons, pvp and gold making on all my alts.

World of Warcraft is sadly, very solo friend in the world content. Leveling is way too fast if you have looms and a goal. As for gold making, a little slower than the past but still relatively steady.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

holler at us in a month when you're over BfA for good. game is boring to me so i quit.

biggest issue is the shitty community around mythic plus. those people are...something else.

[Wangming]

It depends on taste. Some will say everything, some will stay nothing. I'm in the first camp. Go play it and decide for yourself where you stand.