After playing the game, do you agree with Blizzard's expected "steep drop-off"?

[Akka]

I've read them, most of them don't actually go into any detail why they like it, they either just proclaim something is better or make a list of features they like without explaining why they find that fun.

Stating things like "I like classic because I love slower grindy leveling" isn't useful because alot of people will look at that and think the dudes a nut to like slow grindy leveling. No one explains why exactly they find those things fun. What is there entertainment value there getting from that that there not getting elsewhere for less cost.

Well, I dislike olives themselves. How can I explain it to you if you like them ?
I can explain a lot of things that I find fun, but if the person just hasn't the same reaction than me to it, they're just going to still scratch their head, aren't they ?

I like slower and (relatively) harder leveling because it makes everything worthwhile. If I can faceroll it, getting better gear/abilities is unnoticeable. If I replace everything I get within minutes, then I don't care about it.
If you add both aspect (increased power is noticeable/it's pretty hard to do without, and whatever I gain will be used for a rather long time), then it gives me incentive to invest time and effort to get said increased power, and it feels rewarding to do so. As such, gear and abilities becomes interesting to get and are clearly felt in the world once you get them, and can even open up options that were previously considered unattainable or at least not worth it.

I like the down-to-earth abilities, quests and design of the game. I like that it feels like adventurers instead of superheroes. I like that I can picture whatever ability I use and not be "how the Hell does that work, and what exactly it is ?". I like that the class design manages to make each class very unique and with a very different rythm.

I like having lots of stat, each one having logical differences and affecting different aspect of the character, rather than simply being "attack power/magical power" with another name. I like the lots of small mechanical details that allows to play with such mechanics.

I like that specializations are just that : specialization. That they simply enhance a bit some specific parts of the toolset you have as a baseline, rather than completely changing everything and make you feel like it's a different subclass (and ironically lose uniqueness over classes). I like that I can make up a niche build that will have its uses over specific situations even if it's subpar for the typical raid context.

I like all the little details that enhance immersion by making the world more simulation-like and less obviously gamey-like.
Samely, I like the simplicity of the character-world relationship. No sharding (at least layering is worldwide, and I'm not a fan of it even if I understand its requirement), no scaling, no squish and so on. My character is there, and whatever they see is the same for everyone.

I like that power progression is much more moderate and that we don't quadruple our power each time we get through a tier, so it feels more natural and less DBZ-like.

I like threat and mana management. I like the immersion, verisimilitude and the gameplay impact of losing your resources (mana and health). I like that I am not getting them back in a couple of seconds, so that there is an incentive to finish a fight as painlessly as possible, and as such a large margin of power progression before it becomes irrelevant, as well as making food and bandage worth it.

I like the limited mobility, making the world much bigger and more immersive. I like that this gives room for class-based bonus that are really relevant and gives weight to said class choice. Being able to run faster as a hunter or teleport as a mage is really empowering. I like that going on a remote region gives the feeling of going on an adventure and not just click a button and teleport there.

I could go on for a long time. I like all the aspect which increases immersion and make everything I do feels like it's worth it.

[Eggroll]

Lol? Of course the server population varies throughout the day.

My server (Arugal-OC) goes from low/medium in the mornings to 2000+ queues around 6-9 pm before dropping to no queue again shortly after.

That's not what I meant, though. it was medium at the start of Classic, even on evenings. Now it's on HIGH in the evening.

[Bepples]

That's not what I meant, though. it was medium at the start of Classic, even on evenings. Now it's on HIGH in the evening.

Thanks for the clarification. So you're just wrong, then, because the queues were much longer and it was high/full much more regularly in the first 2 weeks than now.

[PrairieChicken]

It will take some time until you can 25man Rag except maybe some top end guilds.
From what I can tell after our first kill, the healing requirement should not be a lot less with 25man - you have less inc. dmg but also less healers. So if people did maintain a proper spread during a 40man pull, it should be quite similar to a 25man pull. But at a 25man pull, each death counts way more and you have almost double the fight length. Unless you got some pretty decent gear from MC i doubt you'd be able to pull it off, if you are not one of top end guilds.

Then you have to increase your roster, let's say to 60 instead of 50. So during the time you 40man the raid, the loot gets spread even thinner. And lastly, this is probably a MC/Ony only thing - so at BWL you end up with a too large roster and a lot of effort for a bit more loot.


So as you can see, I have already used my head - I just thought you'd use yours to think further than "2x the loot = better". And to be exact is 2x the loot - but not 2x the useful loot - because youll be distributing x pieces of loot to 25 inteast of 40 people you will discover that less loot is useful. So I really doubt this to be worth it if you cannot pull it of really fast AND have a little to larger roster anyways.

You can just grind multiple alts and do a split run, which will not be a problem for no lifers

[stomination]

I would say so... queues dropped from 7 hours to 2 during prime time. I don't even need to log in via remote access to play anymore. Clearly classic is dead.

Clearly the xfers have worked.

[Big Thanks]

Clearly the xfers have worked.

They also increased server capacity.

Ever since the same day they increased server capacity, i didnt had a queue since,

[Kneth]

depends what they mean by steep... all new games have a steep drop-off from launch, classic is no exception and we have yet to hit the bottom, classic is still in the early phase.. but i don't agree with the 80-90% which i've seen tons of people on here throw around.

[Heathy]

I honestly think its kinda dumb that they didn't just release upto zg, there is no 20 man in the game for god knows how long, no world bosses, no battlegrounds, basically half the game doesn't actually exist, I'd wager there will be a resurgence once ppl can run zg because organizing a 20 man raid is a lot less hassle than organising a 40. (guilds have a chance at actually building to 40 if they consistently run 20s) there is largely not a lot to do at end game, you can farm dungeon bis, you can farm mats and do professions, hell I got my BS to 280, I made a lesser arcanum of voracity for when i get my wrath helm, its pretty bland at the moment. I kinda want to run zg again, the first time I did that instance I didn't have full dungeon BiS, by the time its in the game, ill have t1. so even that is going to get facerolled. all the raids are going to get facerolled apart from the ones where grinding resistance gear becomes the bottleneck. the fun parts of the game just don't exist yet so its not really any wonder that there is drop off. you could get to 60 now, come back in phase 4 and actually have things to do.

who knows how many lockouts it is until phase 3 but i'll bet a vital organ its going to be enough to beat the dps check, apes and those other guilds that clear MC weekly until phase 3, will likely have no problem downing bwl in the first raid. for me this whole thing is nostalgia, its interesting though, that spacing the content out like this ensures maximum milking potential. I suppose in the end blizzard get the last laugh.

its annoying that it isn't really a true recreation of the time, you can't raid instances, when at this point in history, you could. so this whole thing is like some franken version that isn't a decent representation of any period during classic. its basically just an arbitrarily time gated remastererd edition. It's dissapointing that there is no content in the game that you can bash your head against trying to beat, most of it is just going to end up being released at a point where those interested in doing it have farmed everything they need to do it. like with bwl, if it were in the game NOW, you could try it, wipe in there, and build to overcome it, but that isn't what this is.

[Akka]

depends what they mean by steep... all new games have a steep drop-off from launch, classic is no exception and we have yet to hit the bottom, classic is still in the early phase.. but i don't agree with the 80-90% which i've seen tons of people on here throw around.

The 90 % is from Ion himself, in an interview with some journalist.
I think there IS a significant drop-off that will happen, but I wonder if they didn't underestimate the ability of Classic to retain users. Even if 75 % of people stop, that would still twice and a half as much players left than they expected.

[Black Goat]

I honestly think its kinda dumb that they didn't just release upto zg, there is no 20 man in the game for god knows how long, no world bosses, no battlegrounds, basically half the game doesn't actually exist, I'd wager there will be a resurgence once ppl can run zg because organizing a 20 man raid is a lot less hassle than organising a 40. (guilds have a chance at actually building to 40 if they consistently run 20s) there is largely not a lot to do at end game, you can farm dungeon bis, you can farm mats and do professions, hell I got my BS to 280, I made a lesser arcanum of voracity for when i get my wrath helm, its pretty bland at the moment. I kinda want to run zg again, the first time I did that instance I didn't have full dungeon BiS, by the time its in the game, ill have t1. so even that is going to get facerolled. all the raids are going to get facerolled apart from the ones where grinding resistance gear becomes the bottleneck. the fun parts of the game just don't exist yet so its not really any wonder that there is drop off. you could get to 60 now, come back in phase 4 and actually have things to do.

who knows how many lockouts it is until phase 3 but i'll bet a vital organ its going to be enough to beat the dps check, apes and those other guilds that clear MC weekly until phase 3, will likely have no problem downing bwl in the first raid. for me this whole thing is nostalgia, its interesting though, that spacing the content out like this ensures maximum milking potential. I suppose in the end blizzard get the last laugh.

its annoying that it isn't really a true recreation of the time, you can't raid instances, when at this point in history, you could. so this whole thing is like some franken version that isn't a decent representation of any period during classic. its basically just an arbitrarily time gated remastererd edition. It's dissapointing that there is no content in the game that you can bash your head against trying to beat, most of it is just going to end up being released at a point where those interested in doing it have farmed everything they need to do it. like with bwl, if it were in the game NOW, you could try it, wipe in there, and build to overcome it, but that isn't what this is.

I mean... no one should be surprised by this. It was common knowledge the game would be released in stages, just like it was when it was actually being premiered. It's not their fault you no-lifed the game to the point where you're bored already.

3-4 weeks after Vanilla released, BWL wasn't available to "bash your head against". Why would even expect that to be possible? It was never advertised that way.

[Heathy]

you can get two peices of tier two already it just doesn't make sense to maintain 6 months of content drought when we're not waiting for the content to be made. it makes sense that a lot of content in a game is spaced out because of the time it takes to create it, but we're not waiting for it to be created. the difference between then and now is that we're waiting for nothing. its already a vague representation, along with various changes that weren't like this at this point in time.

when tbc released, as far as i'm aware ssc was accessible on day 1, but it was buggy. if the content exists there is no real reason to not have it be runnable. other than an artificial barrier. from my understanding, when there was no bwl, tier 2, all of it, dropped in molten core, it was moved to bwl. very little of this is like what it actually was like.

if its about consistency vs player retention, the question is, why isn't it consistent, or why didn't they release the game at a version that would ensure more retention.

[lummiuster]

Hardly news, Moana

https://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/g...-on-a-console/



I expect a steep drop off the same time the rose coloured glasses fall off. 15 year old gameplay, primitive graphics, outdated mechanics, 15 year old paradigm,. the older gamer doesnt have the time to waste on useless trivia.

If WOW had launched this without a dedicated fanbase the game would crater at mach 10. Any new game with Vanilla like gameplay would be a financial black hole.

- - - Updated - - -


FF 14
BDO

Any number of others games, both MMO and singleplayer genre.

Vanilla WOW is nostalgia. Its a nice place to visit....but anyone with half a brain wont want to live there.

It is not nostalgia. It was for me, I convinced 3 of my friends who never touched wow (only BDA/lineage/FF14) to try classic with me and they love it.
Games are not just about the features and mechanic described. Sometimes there are many combination of things that makes the game enjoyable. For some unknown reasons, my coca cola taste better when I'm killing those tigers in the jungle of stranglethorn with the nice music behind.

[commakozzi]

It is not nostalgia. It was for me, I convinced 3 of my friends who never touched wow (only BDA/lineage/FF14) to try classic with me and they love it.
Games are not just about the features and mechanic described. Sometimes there are many combination of things that makes the game enjoyable. For some unknown reasons, my coca cola taste better when I'm killing those tigers in the jungle of stranglethorn with the nice music behind.

Agreed. Sure, i'm nostalgic, but that's in ADDITION to also just loving the game. The nostalgia wore off after my 4th private server launch, and now i'm back on Classic enjoying it just as much as I have always enjoyed it. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD FUCKING GAME THAT'S WHY! What the people who moan about nostalgia and rose tinted glasses can't comprehend is that we also like the game just because it's really good. period. Let's go back and review Aehl's statements:

1. 15 year old gameplay: ok, so? There are plenty of very old games that are still great and are worth revisiting.

2. primitive graphics: why are people so obsessed with graphics? one of the biggest problems plaguing game design today (and has been a problem for a LONG time) is that too much focus in design is based on graphics, models, lighting, etc. etc. to get that photo-realistic look, and not enough time is spent on actual game design. I'm not saying that vanilla wow is the bastion of game design, but it sure as hell got SOME formula right. I couldn't care less about graphics when the game is just really good.

3. outdated mechanics: ok, i'll give you that one to an extent. it's not your cup of tea, but i actually enjoy the mechanics of classic. There are overt mechanics ala modern wow that are definitely enjoyable, but the passive mechanics of classic should not be understated. For instance, threat. Threat in modern wow is virtually non-existent. If you're a tank, you're going to be on top of the threat meter, period. Resources are another passive mechanic that i really enjoy. You can't just spam spells with disregard for your mana bar. I fucking like that!

The rest of the points they made are unintelligible so just leaving those out. And i'm not sure why i'm wasting time responding, but for some reason it makes me feel good. I'm enjoying the hell out of Classic wow, even more so now that i know my characters will be there tomorrow and i don't have to worry about the servers getting shut down.

[Dch48]

You will see the steep dropoff when Patch 8.2.5 for BfA drops. Many are just fooling around in Classic while waiting for the new content.

[KaPe]

You will see the steep dropoff when Patch 8.2.5 for BfA drops. Many are just fooling around in Classic while waiting for the new content.

8.2.5 is not really content heavy patch. Besides war campaign, there doesn't seem to be much in there to compete with Classic - unless there's some amazing content that wasn't yet data mined. Or if party syncing is something more amazing than it seems at first.

[toffmcsoft]

You will see the steep dropoff when Patch 8.2.5 for BfA drops. Many are just fooling around in Classic while waiting for the new content.

lol, the majority of classic players won't touch retail.
Our guild has 175 players who log in daily, only 15 of them actually play retail and only 30 of them have played retail in Legion or BFA.

Sorry but nobody from Classic is going to jump back to retail. Retail as a game is just complete junk.

[slalmon]

lol, the majority of classic players won't touch retail.
Our guild has 175 players who log in daily, only 15 of them actually play retail and only 30 of them have played retail in Legion or BFA.

Sorry but nobody from Classic is going to jump back to retail. Retail as a game is just complete junk.

Right but that isn't who they are talking about.. clearly the poster was taking about primary retail players that are just messing around in Classic right now.

Just because you don't like Retail doesn't mean it is junk... please.

[Estravolt]

lol, the majority of classic players won't touch retail.
Our guild has 175 players who log in daily, only 15 of them actually play retail and only 30 of them have played retail in Legion or BFA.

Sorry but nobody from Classic is going to jump back to retail. Retail as a game is just complete junk.

[Citation needed]

[Mayia]

Hardly news, Moana

https://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/g...-on-a-console/



I expect a steep drop off the same time the rose coloured glasses fall off. 15 year old gameplay, primitive graphics, outdated mechanics, 15 year old paradigm,. the older gamer doesnt have the time to waste on useless trivia.

If WOW had launched this without a dedicated fanbase the game would crater at mach 10. Any new game with Vanilla like gameplay would be a financial black hole.

- - - Updated - - -


FF 14
BDO

Any number of others games, both MMO and singleplayer genre.

Vanilla WOW is nostalgia. Its a nice place to visit....but anyone with half a brain wont want to live there.

You are wrong, i'm quite happy there, and i plan to stay but i'll also play bfa or whatever is after bfa to a lesser extent because why not.
What you seem to fail to understand is some people really enjoy classic i've barely logged into bfa and i really should be trying to make gold for subs lol.

I think you'll be shocked how few people "out right quit" i think people will just take it at their pace now all the racers are 60 or near it, those with jobs will catch up to us, and they'll join more casual guilds or raids.

The idea for blizzard is that you have 2 options with your wow sub, and when there is a lack of content/drive in one.. you head to the other and progress will be waiting for you.

But at the end of the day you guys are the same as those saying it'll fail.. you are just moving the goalpost until you get your result 50 years from now "OMG GUYS I SAID FROM DAY ONE CLASSIC WOULD DIE, it only lasted 50 years!"

[Eggroll]

Thanks for the clarification. So you're just wrong, then, because the queues were much longer and it was high/full much more regularly in the first 2 weeks than now.

Well, they've added servers AND increased server capacity in the meantime, didn't they? Since none of us knows the exact figures it's all just speculation, isn't it?

Not to mention free server transfers. I won't keep you from doomsaying though if this is what makes your boat float, keep on!