What takeaways should Blizzard add back to retail from classic?

[Dacien]

It's really hard to point to one thing since the design philosophies are what set them apart. But if I had to pick one thing, it'd be talents at every level. Having so many talents gave a lot of flexibility in how you wanted to build your char, even if cookie cutters did exist.

[Ygg]

First of all, I think Blizzard is wise in not reacting quickly to any input from the Classic section. Its not long since launch, and players attitudes change dramatically over time. Historically, this is true for WoW and its expansions, and it is true for other similar games. If you have been playing classic since launch, you have probably noticed that the "Welcome to Classic" launch-love is slowly turning into the usual snide responses to honest questions in chat.

I've been playing classic exclusively since its launch, bar the weekly +10. It's brought alot of nostalgia back from my early days. I am having fun and I will keep playing. Until I get bored, which I'm sure I will because I've been there before. Or until the next retail content patch. I love classic as a complement to retail. In part because it IS different. If retail was still like classic I'm sure I wouldn't have been as hyped.

I think there is alot room for improvements in retail. Personally I don't see how classic mechanics would solve any of them. And the arguments made here in this forum for turning back the clock, passionate as they may be...well they don't ring true in my ears.

Anyhow, it's time for me to go back to doing stuff I personally enjoy in classic and just have some fun. Maybe some of you should too?

[avitush]

Things I would bring back into retail from classic- wotlk era
Professions being relevant and unique. Such as Jewelcrafters able to have slightly better gems or how BS could get an extra socket etc

Professions are a big one for me.

I miss sharpening stones and weightstones more than anything else, as insignificant a thing as that might seem. I remember Blizzard's justification for doing away with them was "hey, that's one less thing you have to farm!" and something about how it makes rogues and shamans feel less unique since they could poison/enhance their weapons as a class feature (which, funny enough, also happened right around the time Blizzard decided that everyone gets an execute, everyone gets a mortal strike, everyone gets Heroism, etc...).

Also the sub-specializations were cool. I remember all the time I spent in BC pushing to get that armorsmithing plate chest because it was so awesome for a fury warrior. And alchemists had things like how they could choose between potions/flasks/transmute spec. And so on.

It's really hard to point to one thing since the design philosophies are what set them apart. But if I had to pick one thing, it'd be talents at every level. Having so many talents gave a lot of flexibility in how you wanted to build your char, even if cookie cutters did exist.

Also this. Or just SOME reward for leveling, instead of gaining 10 levels with nothing to show for it other than slightly higher primary stats.

[Apexis]

well thats not even true lol theres definitely the same incentive as always, get better gear to become better. i always want to clear raids and get my DPS as high as possible and that requires higher keys and heroic and mythic raids. WQ gear caps at 415 so that isnt high gear and benthic gear caps at 420 and while it can be BiS with a slot its not exactly easy to get lol all of those roads take time and effort.

also sucks you had a bad experience with the LFG tool but if everyones using it you'd probably have way less issues with it. i never had an experience like that with it but i def seen experiences like that in the early days of LFD lol

No, if any expansion has needless interact with raiding it would be BfA. Yes, you can get some better pieces of gear in various slots, overall there is less of a necessity to need to raid other than for the content itself this expansion. Not saying the gear in other places like world quest and vendor gear is quality gear or even close to BiS gear. The simple fact is, raiding is not as necessary this expansion as it has been over time in this game. Sure there were other spots where the same have occurred, but now one can jump into Mythic plus content or world content and not ever need to touch raid content if they so choose.

LFD or LFG was both good and bad, or could be both good and bad it was more like roll the dice and hope you can complete a run without egos getting in the way. Yeah, my experience comes from not being one of the better players of this game. Prior to WoW, I had never played a game on this level. I am an old school Sega, Arcade games, and Nintendo NES, stuff like that. WoW was a whole different animal from what experience I had from a video game perspective. I did not understand a lot when I started in BC and nearly quit playing a few times, because it was really difficult. One thing I was always told was I had good instincts and awareness for both dungeon and raid content, if I lacked in anything it was my DPS never was on the same level. I got better over time, but by then I had no ambition to want to raid again. I don't particularly like the LFR that much either. I love running dungeons, especially when the entire group is in sync with one another.

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I don't see how you can justify either in a game where the LFG tool exists. Auto grouping in a social game should not exist.

I can justify the LFD more so than the LFR. The LFR is nice, but it totally missed the mark that it should have hit from the beginning. The LFR should have been used as a means of learning stepping stone to incite people that did not the previous raid in organized raid groups to do so. It ends up being nothing more than a means to maybe get and additional pieces of gear and not learn the mechanic of the fight itself once it got watered down to the point where hardly any of the mechanic of the fight itself was used.

LFD, was a very good tool, especially when it was server-specific before 3.3. People on the server still had to be accountable for themselves or they would get blacklisted as they did through the LFG. LFD was great from the standpoint of when a lot of people in the guild or friends were not online or if I wanted to run a quick dungeon or two before going to working or before going to bed. I did not have to spam to build a group and I could spend more time doing some quests I had not previously completed for Loremaster, or do dailies, or level professions. Which was better and more productive than spamming the LFG and hope an entire PUG group could keep their egos in check long enough to finish a dungeon without having to go back or out to get more people to finish the dungeon.

I am all about efficiency, I like using my time wisely and the LFD has allowed for me to multitask while sitting in a queue. I do not remember many runs where people talked to one another more so before the LFD implementation than after the LFD was implemented. The LFD has been both bad and good, but I would say for me, the LFD has been far better than just spamming for people. I would rather be doing something far more productive with my own time.

I did not socialize much outside the guilds I was apart of, which had multiple sister guilds full of people and we all did content together. I did not always use the LFD, but I would use it when I could not find someone or people just did not have time to run dungeons. LFD like everything else was the means of last resort for people that were trying to progress through the content and get geared up. It has served its purpose over the years. With or without auto grouping, when I started at the beginning of BC, there was not a lot of people talking. I do remember a lot of people arguing and fighting with one another or various people not capable of keeping their ego in check for the betterment of the group. Which, has not changed since the LFD was implemented in the game.

[Warning]

Remove scaling in the world. Remove Warforging/titanforging. Remove "seasons" where you farm the same gear over and over. Make gear more sparse and last longer. More unique items and bigger differences in itemization. All of this so items feel more meaningful again and there is actual progression.

Collapse specs into a single class again and have those classes bring unique things. Right now there is no granularity because there is a spec for every shade between being the best or worst at pure single target dps, AoE dps, two target cleave, mobility, CC, tankiness and selfhealing.

Design some elaborate 5 man content like BRD/Diremaul and drop the focus on raiding. Raiding is actually some of the worst content gameplay wise in WoW because its the only place where you use just a fraction of a classes' toolkit. In dungeons and PVP you use every tool you have because you don't have enough people to fill specialized rolls for everything that happens. As a mage in BRD you can "fix" a bad pull by kiting some mobs or CCing them. In raids individuals can't make a difference like that because most things are CC immune and oneshot everything other than a tank.

Squish levels to a more manageable number and cut expansion content like Outland/Northrend/Pandaria/Draenor from the level up path or have them as entirely optional paths. It's actually insane to imagine a new player having to level through outland and then later doing draenor, setting up their garrison only to then establish a class hall a few hours later.

What retail should keep is its better class balance and the rewards for high level PVP and high level PVE play, which classic doesn't have. The honor system in classic is really bad and there is no challenging PVE content especially for 5 man groups.

[Fred Skinner]

I think i found something the devs should take to retail from classic:

1.) Dungeon difficulty - nowadays dungeon bosses have way too many phases, are way too complex , have group instant-kills if you do not follow dbm
2.) LFR difficulty from Molton Core - Same here. Nowadays raids are way too complex for anyone who just wants to see the content.

[Lurker1]

Nothing.

You have your Classic experience. Enjoy it and leave modern WoW to modern players.

100% agree!

[Mindstripper]

yo, i have a 87 page list of that shit over the decade, and while being a MoP fan myself it's got atleast 13 of those pages.

Put that shit on a google doc. I'd be curious to see how many little things there are.

[Sensa1]

I think i found something the devs should take to retail from classic:

1.) Dungeon difficulty - nowadays dungeon bosses have way too many phases, are way too complex , have group instant-kills if you do not follow dbm
2.) LFR difficulty from Molton Core - Same here. Nowadays raids are way too complex for anyone who just wants to see the content.

still at eh skinner? just can't resist. Your sarcasm falls flat as usual. Didn't even bother to write coherent and complete sentences. Your comment doesn't even actually make sense the way you worded it. You're getting real lazy now.

Yes, patch 1.12 version of MC is relatively easy. We get it. The reasons why it's easier than it once was have been explained repeatedly.

Please get a life and move on already.

[Hinastorm]

To me there's just not that much to bring in from classic into retail

only things would be as you said for rogues and also hunters

remove LFR and LFD, leave timewalking

Full revamp of professions, not exactly the same as classic though as thats ancient as well,

harder world mobs

***Super unpopular opinion*** (apparently)

A not cross server dungeon finder just gets people actually running dungeons more, instead of spamming chat for long periods of time trying to build a group. It being not cross server means you guys can build your precious social connections you all love. Could even make it not teleport to the dungeon.

My point being, that spamming chat LFG or LFM brings no gameplay or social value. Feel free to point out why you disagree if you do.

[Fred Skinner]

Your sarcasm falls flat as usual.

That was not sarcasm.

[Aeula]

Class quests. That's about it. I don't want to see anything else brought back.

[Mindstripper]

Not necessarily from specifically Classic.

-The Oldschool talent system, potentially as a supplement to the current talent system and Specializations.
-Class/Spec choice actually meaning something and differentiating what you bring to a raid. E.g. Bring back unique buffs/debuffs.
-Bring back stats like Multi-strike and Armor Penetration.
-Bring back Reforging
-Massive dungeons like BRD and LBRS+UBRS+BWL, but in addition to the current "10min speed run" dungeons. E.g. each expansion has 8-10 "10min Speed Run" dungeons and 1-2 Blackrock Depths/Blackrock Spire/Dire Maul type dungeons. I'd also like that kind of design brought back for raids instead of the very linear raid layouts we've had since Cata.
-Professions actually meaning something, whether that's by bringing back actual raid-quality weapons+armor coming off of the specializations ala Burning Crusade or something else, I don't know but in the state they're in right now they don't actually mean anything.


Really just all the RPG aspects of it, because since Cata, to appease all the E-Sports chuckleheads who started trickling in with the addition of Arena, a lot of the RPG aspects of WoW as an MMORPG have been stripped away, leaving WoW the MMOG for people who hate RPGs. Which really does need to stop.

My point being, that spamming chat LFG or LFM brings no gameplay or social value. Feel free to point out why you disagree if you do.

Yeah, it does. Because you're forced to actually talk to people and work together, as you should in a social game, not silently stand there ignoring everyone else like an introvert on prom night.

[bloodykiller86]

***Super unpopular opinion*** (apparently)

A not cross server dungeon finder just gets people actually running dungeons more, instead of spamming chat for long periods of time trying to build a group. It being not cross server means you guys can build your precious social connections you all love. Could even make it not teleport to the dungeon.

My point being, that spamming chat LFG or LFM brings no gameplay or social value. Feel free to point out why you disagree if you do.

100% agree. imho on retail servers shouldnt even exist anymore. should just be a mass server with sharding and shit. LFG tool is really good now and if everyone is forced to use it instead of LFR/LFD it would be much better for everything imho

[Aehl]

I don't see how you can justify either in a game where the LFG tool exists. Autogrouping in a social game should not exist.

LFD tech is in wide use across all MMO's. ALL.

You are fifteen years behind current game design.

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Permanently remove flying and LFG/LFR.

Go ahead.

You'll be alone in a week, then looking for a new game in a month

[Mindstripper]

LFD tech is in wide use across all MMO's. ALL.

You are fifteen years behind current game design.

It's bad design for a social game, it removes the need to communicate and to meet people, which is the foundation of a community.

Just because it's current and it's in use by nearly every MMO does not make it good design, nor does it mean it belongs in a game. However at this point removing it would do more harm than good.

[warisking]

Saying Sylvanas is not the same person as the Banshee Queen, is, how I already said, methaphorical. Technically it is wrong. Methaphorical it can work.

[Alphatorg]

Design some elaborate 5 man content like BRD/Diremaul and drop the focus on raiding. Raiding is actually some of the worst content gameplay wise in WoW because its the only place where you use just a fraction of a classes' toolkit. In dungeons and PVP you use every tool you have because you don't have enough people to fill specialized rolls for everything that happens. As a mage in BRD you can "fix" a bad pull by kiting some mobs or CCing them. In raids individuals can't make a difference like that because most things are CC immune and oneshot everything other than a tank.

This one actually cracked me up. Neither are classic dungeons particularly elaborate nor has the game ever been more focused on 5man dungeons than in the age of M+.

[Aehl]

It's bad design for a social game, it removes the need to communicate and to meet people, which is the foundation of a community.

Total and complete twaddle. Subjective and the VAST majority of game designers DO NOT agree with you...actually ALL of them disagree with you.

Just because it's current and it's in use by nearly every MMO does not make it good design, nor does it mean it belongs in a game. However at this point removing it would do more harm than good.

Yet....in all these other MMOs they dont have the issue you claim it causes.

So.....proof? Source? Actual EVIDENCE of your claims?

You have NONE.

This is 2019 not 2004, Classic is old outdated and primitive game design.

There is ZERO evidence of the "social issues" you claim LFG causes and to date I am yet to see any. You sound like someone else on here making claims you cant back up or prove.

It's bad design for a social game, it removes the need to communicate and to meet people, which is the foundation of a community.

Just because it's current and it's in use by nearly every MMO does not make it good design, nor does it mean it belongs in a game. However at this point removing it would do more harm than good.

Sure. Go ahead and remove it. Tell players they need to spend hours screaming in chat to form a group for one dungeon. They will take their wallets, slam them shut and walk out the door. LFG is MODERN game tech designed to meet the MODERN market with MODERN demographics.

The days of gamers being pimple faced brainless teenies hunched over a screen a la Evercrack are dead and gone.

[Alphatorg]

***Super unpopular opinion*** (apparently)

A not cross server dungeon finder just gets people actually running dungeons more, instead of spamming chat for long periods of time trying to build a group. It being not cross server means you guys can build your precious social connections you all love. Could even make it not teleport to the dungeon.

My point being, that spamming chat LFG or LFM brings no gameplay or social value. Feel free to point out why you disagree if you do.

This insistence on removing x-realm functionality is one of the biggest jokes. Not having x-realm in classic cut me off from 3/4 of my friends list. Nothing about it is more social. If you're actually social(izing) you join a guild and/or make (online) friends/acquaintances with whom you build pre made groups. I can only imagine these tears about x-realm and LFR come from people who are both anti-social, forcing them to group up with randoms all the time and fairly bad at the game, making them afraid of getting kicked or filtered by increased competition for spots.