New player models as an option in Classic

[Carolus Rex]

Old gear looks horrendous on new models.

It also looks horrendous on the old models. It's the gear that makes the gear look bad.

[Lillyth]

There will be no changes.

[Ragedaug]

There will be no changes.

There already have been changes, so you are a little late with that prediction.

[Nynax]

Say you and another person both buy a burger.

You get a normal 100% beef patty burger.
The other guy gets a vegetarian Impossible burger.

Is your burger now worse? Is your burger experience somehow altered because his was different?

[Lionhearte0]

You didn't.

I already adressed that. Twice.

There are already changes that have been made to Classic.

Now come back with an actual argument for why there can't be an optional, cosmetic thing in a game that already has changes made to it compared to the original version.

- - - Updated - - -



You too did not read my post. It wasn't about a disagreement. It was about having adressed their argument already in the OP because I knew it would come up. The argument that this optional graphical update should not be included in the game, on the grounds of that there shouldn't be any changes made to the game at all is a nonsensical argument when you consider that there have already been many changes made to the game.

Nope. No changes. That's not an argument, it's a rule.

[Powerogue]

No, the old models look awful, and that's consistent with the older graphical style. The reason we needed the new models was mainly to have cutscenes and the like actually look good and have emotion to them, and classic did not have those.

Plus, and this is the most important reason, when the models were a toggle, it was not actually the old models on the old rig, but the old models on the NEW rig, causing very awkward stretching issues that looked kind of like a new orc was wearing the old orc's face.

[Nynax]

If you are right, why do you think Blizzard left out that option?

Because it's more work.


I mean, honestly. The biggest argument for "no changes" is simply that any more changes means more work for Blizzard. Blizzard did the thing, the servers are live, I'd be perfectly understanding if they decided "that's that." And didn't spend another hour on Classic development. (excluding server support)

[SkagenRora]

I would not like it. Would ruin classic tbh.

[Nynax]

snip

Nope. No changes. That's not an argument, it's a rule.

And there you have it, for some people there is literally no discussion, no room for argument, no room to even bring the topic into being.

"No changes" is a zero tolerance policy.I would fully expect these players to completely abandon the game if 1 more line of code gets altered.

/thread


Edit:

I mean, look at every single "what if" thread created since this forum sub-section came into being.

Even something innocuous like this guys OP, "I'd like to see a small improvement in my gameplay experience while being very careful to preserve your experience" is met with "No. Fucking. Changes."

Very few even bother with "I can see why you might want that, but here a few rational reasons why that might be a bad idea." I think the one about character rigging in the new models having potential.

(I do not consider the jump to "why not just add LFG then!?" as a rational argument because it skips too many steps and ignores the boundary between tools for personal experience and tools for group experiences.)

[Ragedaug]

And there you have it, for some people there is literally no discussion, no room for argument, no room to even bring the topic into being.

"No changes" is a zero tolerance policy.I would fully expect these players to completely abandon the game if 1 more line of code gets altered.

/thread


Edit:

I mean, look at every single "what if" thread created since this forum sub-section came into being.

Even something innocuous like this guys OP, "I'd like to see a small improvement in my gameplay experience while being very careful to preserve your experience" is met with "No. Fucking. Changes."

Very few even bother with "I can see why you might want that, but here a few rational reasons why that might be a bad idea." I think the one about character rigging in the new models having potential.

(I do not consider the jump to "why not just add LFG then!?" as a rational argument because it skips too many steps and ignores the boundary between tools for personal experience and tools for group experiences.)

It is interesting how irrational the "no ..... changes" crowd are. I believe you are correct, and I haven't seen a single rational argument stating why x or y shouldn't be there. I'm not saying they should make the change to characters, though as someone who heavily modded my UI since Vanilla, I'm 100% for anything that makes the game visually more appealing so long as it doesn't impact game play.

Of course that's a slippery slope as folks have different opinions on what makes something visually more appealing, which is why I tend to favor more options over fewer options.

So yeah, not asking for this change, but would enjoy it. Would love to see someone from the "no changes ever" crowd put down a reasoned response beyond, "if they make this one change they have to make all the other changes and make it exactly like retail".

I get the slippery slope argument which is why I'm not asking for the change, but as a thought exercise, for those against this change, are there any other reasons having better looking characters would ruin your experience?

[Dacien]

I think some of these options are reasonable, it's just that it elicits the slippery slope argument. If you'll allow this, then why not that? People are fiercely protective of Classic as it was because all the little changes are what brought what we have today, which a lot of people don't care for.

In a world where everyone was reasonable and measured, we could have discussions about allowing small things like this, but we do not live in that world.

[jellmoo]

I would not like it. Would ruin classic tbh.

So something that you would never see, never notice and have zero impact on you or your gameplay would ruin Classic? How the fuck do you reason that?

[SkagenRora]

So something that you would never see, never notice and have zero impact on you or your gameplay would ruin Classic? How the fuck do you reason that?

"New player models in classic" How would i not see it if you made the game new models?

[GenericDragon]

"New player models in classic" How would i not see it if you made the game new models?

The idea is that the new models would be disabled by default, and you would have to enable them on your personal graphical settings. Only you would be able to see them, no one else would.

OT: I don't see the problem. I can see why people wouldn't want them, as they would look incredibly out of place in the pre-cata old world. But if it doesn't affect gameplay I don't see any reason why it couldn't be included for the players that want it.

Personally, even if it's ONLY the singular color, I would very much like to have the updated druid forms. Especially for tauren druids.

[Sastank]

Another post on same subject? No. It's a modern change. Stop asking for it while harping on Vanilla.

[Aggrophobic]

I would really like to see this. Some of the old models, like Dwarf are just awful and especially the new Gnome female looks so gorgeous and I would love to be able to use that model. I don't see anything wrong with this as an option.

This could even extend to new NPC models, like wolves and bears, and even druid forms. As OPTIONAL of course.

Some people will say that it is not classic, if there are any changes being made to the game.

1. If you don't like it, don't use it. It won't ever have an effect on you at all. This is a purely positive thing.
2. We already have many changes in Classic, like being able to rearrange your characters in the login screen, being able to restore your deleted characters and even something very similar to an optional graphical update. The water effects in Classic were different. If I have my settings on high I see the new, wonderfully clear water that was later updated.

So I really don't see anything wrong with having these things as options. I have yet to see one coherent argument against an option for new character models.

I mean... No. Classic is classic. Play retail if you want the new stuff.

[Travels]

We already had like 20 of these threads.
No changes.
Everything is perfect in Classic.

Why wouldn't higher res models not be better.

[SkagenRora]

The idea is that the new models would be disabled by default, and you would have to enable them on your personal graphical settings. Only you would be able to see them, no one else would.

.

Oh.. that makes a lot more sense. Yeah that's fine i guess. But still People can just use that as an excuse to argue a lot of changes "You did that, so why not do this as well"

It's better to just stick to the #nochanges

[sopeonaroap]

You can't just say "hurr durr u didn't read my post" when someone disagrees.

It is simply not possible because the different animation rigs they have.

dude that shit is plug and play. all that shit exists and classic is using 8.0's client. it was more work NOT to use new models because the default setting in 8.0 gives you a choice

[Wildpantz]

We already had like 20 of these threads.
No changes.
Everything is perfect in Classic.

Tons of changes already made stop being ignorant