The Dark Ranger: Does it have enough material to become a class?

[qwerty123456]

I'm not interested in Dark Rangers but I would probably play one if they made em. And I find it funny that people were trying to force a ghostbusters spec into tinkers and yet these same people can't think of how dark rangers could be a class.

Don't forget that Sylvanas is a dark ranger. They could add her banshee abilities to the class or any of her Hero of the Storm skills to the class as well as any necrotic abilities they wanted to. And thats not even counting bow skills.



https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dark_Ranger_(Warcraft_III)


And if they go off of the Dark Rangers skills from WC3 they could easily have a range dps spec. a healing spec, and a spec based on mind control/charm/Possession which if they tied them more closely to banshees could be pretty interesting and end up like like a druid/hunter combo where you can take over humanoids and use them like druid forms.

[Nephys]

The reason they use necromancy is just because they are members of the undead. Once again, Dark Rangers are literally undead Farstriders. They then use their newfound undead state with their previous Farstrider training. It's not like they use necromantic abilities because they trained or studied in the nercomantic arts, it's just that they were literally raised. Like, you gotta remember, the banshee side of the Dark Ranger isn't part of their class, but rather their state of being, their race.

Like Lightforged Draenei. Lightforged Draenei are now infused with the Light. Just like how the undead are infused with necromancy.

I mean, let's put it this way. If Blizzard named classes based on their race as well, the undead version of hunter would have a high likelihood of being named "Dark Ranger" like how Draenei Hunter would be named "Rangari" and Blood Elf Hunter would be named "Farstrider"

Now all Undead are Necromancers? Talking about racism, I have a really hard time seeing an undead warrior using necromancy, or a holy priest

[F Rm]

The reason they use necromancy is just because they are members of the undead. Once again, Dark Rangers are literally undead Farstriders. They then use their newfound undead state with their previous Farstrider training. It's not like they use necromantic abilities because they trained or studied in the nercomantic arts, it's just that they were literally raised. Like, you gotta remember, the banshee side of the Dark Ranger isn't part of their class, but rather their state of being, their race.

Like Lightforged Draenei. Lightforged Draenei are now infused with the Light. Just like how the undead are infused with necromancy.

I mean, let's put it this way. If Blizzard named classes based on their race as well, the undead version of hunter would have a high likelihood of being named "Dark Ranger" like how Draenei Hunter would be named "Rangari" and Blood Elf Hunter would be named "Farstrider"

Not according to lore.

Dark Rangers aren't just a playstyle/fighting style in this game.

Lore specifically states that Dark Rangers are former dead Elven Rangers that have, since their resurrection, abandoned their former teachings and ties to that of the nature and the wild.

In favor of mastering their "darker craft" of necromancy and shadow magic. Neither of which requires you to actually be undead to have access to.

Dark Rangers pretty much only uses Bows as ranged weapons along with various Short-blades or Daggers for melee.

They also make use of Psychic Screams, Diseases, Curses and Necromancy.

Their spells work with manipulating the essences of life and death, as well as various horrible curses and mind-enslaving abilities

This does not sound very...Hunter'esque to me.

[DotEleven]

Not according to lore.

Dark Rangers aren't just a playstyle/fighting style in this game.

Lore specifically states that Dark Rangers are former dead Elven Rangers that have, since their resurrection, abandoned their former teachings and ties to that of the nature and the wild.

In favor of mastering their "darker craft" of necromancy and shadow magic. Neither of which requires you to actually be undead to have access to.

Dark Rangers pretty much only uses Bows as ranged weapons along with various Short-blades or Daggers for melee.

They also make use of Psychic Screams, Diseases, Curses and Necromancy.

Their spells work with manipulating the essences of life and death, as well as various horrible curses and mind-enslaving abilities

This does not sound very...Hunter'esque to me.

There is nothing there that says they abandoned their former teachings. It does talk about how they lost their connection to nature, you know due to them being undead.

Yes, Necromancy and Shadow Magic don't require you to be undead, but in the case of Dark Rangers that's where it comes from. They didn't have these abilities UNTIL THEY WERE RESURRECTED.

I mean, hell, if only they didn't just blanket remove the entire RPG from canon their listing for Dark Ranger was literally "Sylvanas ALTERED HER ELVEN RANGER TEACHINGS"

The only difference between the abilities available to a Dark Ranger and a Farstrider are the difference between what is available to them as a High Elf and what is available to them as a Forsaken.

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Now all Undead are Necromancers? Talking about racism, I have a really hard time seeing an undead warrior using necromancy, or a holy priest

Not all undead are necromancers but they are enshrouded with necromantic power. They are literally raised dead are you that blind? You know, like how Lightforged Draenei are infused with the Light.

[F Rm]

There is nothing there that says they abandoned their former teachings. It does talk about how they lost their connection to nature, you know due to them being undead.

An elven ranger seeking to convert to a dark ranger must, of course, have died, returned as a Forsaken, and seek to learn the arts of the shadow rather than the wild.

This ordeal is difficult, as the dark ranger must twist everything she was taught about nature to start learning her darker trade.

Yes, Necromancy and Shadow Magic don't require you to be undead, but in the case of Dark Rangers that's where it comes from. They didn't have these abilities UNTIL THEY WERE RESURRECTED.

True, Dark Rangers no longer have the spiritual ties to the nature and the wild that they previously had. They still have the knowledge though, about how to care for it.
This is what has to be abandoned in order for them to start learning their new "craft".

As for the abilities and magic related to necromancy, curses, mind-enslavement etc. These do not come automatically just because they become undead.
It's a choice to start learning it/them.

Besides…

You still have the Undead-restrictions when it comes to Dark Rangers.
Forget the past restriction of having to have been a former Elven Ranger as, since the War of Thorns, Sylvanas has begun raising former Night Elf Sentinels and Rangers to become Dark Rangers.
Remove the restrictions of undeath and you wouldn't actually have Dark Rangers anymore. Just some odd ranger that utilizes necromancy and various shadow-based curses/spells.

But still, this does not go hand-in-hand with being a Hunter. Considering what Hunters, by nature, are actually about.

The only difference between the abilities available to a Dark Ranger and a Farstrider are the difference between what is available to them as a High Elf and what is available to them as a Forsaken.

Not exactly sure what you're talking about here.

[Nephys]

There is nothing there that says they abandoned their former teachings. It does talk about how they lost their connection to nature, you know due to them being undead.

Yes, Necromancy and Shadow Magic don't require you to be undead, but in the case of Dark Rangers that's where it comes from. They didn't have these abilities UNTIL THEY WERE RESURRECTED.

I mean, hell, if only they didn't just blanket remove the entire RPG from canon their listing for Dark Ranger was literally "Sylvanas ALTERED HER ELVEN RANGER TEACHINGS"

The only difference between the abilities available to a Dark Ranger and a Farstrider are the difference between what is available to them as a High Elf and what is available to them as a Forsaken.

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Not all undead are necromancers but they are enshrouded with necromantic power. They are literally raised dead are you that blind? You know, like how Lightforged Draenei are infused with the Light.

You are not even trying to discuss anything, you are just denying everything, you sound like those guys who don't want allied races, I mean its alright if you dont like them, you don't have to play with them, its optional content, but why do you want to deny others their fun?

I mean I hate with all my guts Tinker, but I accept that its highly likely that they will be added next expansion, and even though I hate them, I understand that they make sense. I would never play with a Tinker, but I understand that others might have fun with that, its called being "mature"

[DotEleven]

An elven ranger seeking to convert to a dark ranger must, of course, have died, returned as a Forsaken, and seek to learn the arts of the shadow rather than the wild.

This ordeal is difficult, as the dark ranger must twist everything she was taught about nature to start learning her darker trade.




True, Dark Rangers no longer have the spiritual ties to the nature and the wild that they previously had. They still have the knowledge though, about how to care for it.
This is what has to be abandoned in order for them to start learning their new "craft".

As for the abilities and magic related to necromancy, curses, mind-enslavement etc. These do not come automatically just because they become undead.
It's a choice to start learning it/them.

Besides…

You still have the Undead-restrictions when it comes to Dark Rangers.
Forget the past restriction of having to have been a former Elven Ranger as, since the War of Thorns, Sylvanas has begun raising former Night Elf Sentinels and Rangers to become Dark Rangers.
Remove the restrictions of undeath and you wouldn't actually have Dark Rangers anymore. Just some odd ranger that utilizes necromancy and various shadow-based curses/spells.

But still, this does not go hand-in-hand with being a Hunter. Considering what Hunters, by nature, are actually about.






Not exactly sure what you're talking about here.

You're literally using the RPG quote so here's the actual thing about the creation of Dark Rangers.

When Sylvanas Windrunner, Banshee Queen of the Forsaken, regained her physical body, she realized that the natural world would never respond to her wishes again. Angered by this development, she turned to the arts that were becoming more and more natural to her: Necromancy. She altered her elven ranger teachings into a new form. Thus, the dark rangers were born

So, like I said. They take the farstrider basics, add in their necromantic powers from being undead. And voila you have a dark ranger.

You are not even trying to discuss anything, you are just denying everything, you sound like those guys who don't want allied races, I mean its alright if you dont like them, you don't have to play with them, its optional content, but why do you want to deny others their fun?

I mean I hate with all my guts Tinker, but I accept that its highly likely that they will be added next expansion, and even though I hate them, I understand that they make sense. I would never play with a Tinker, but I understand that others might have fun with that, its called being "mature"

I never said anything about whether or not they will be added. What I'm pointing out is just the issues with it being added itself, that being the fact it's restricted to a single race. That prevents it from being either class or a spec. But if they circumvent that for a class, I see no issue with it being added as a Hunter spec since they have such a strong baseline in hunter abilities from being hunters themselves. Why would they create an entirely new class that fits the same niche if they could just add it in as a spec?

[Hctaz]

I think it could work and even fill a niche that we lost with Survival being changed over to a melee spec.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I think it could work and even fill a niche that we lost with Survival being changed over to a melee spec.

And what would that niche be? Thematically, survival was more about gadgets, mechanically.. well press random shit that lights up like most specs.

[F Rm]

add in their necromantic powers from being undead. And voila you have a dark ranger.

While sure, being undead will naturally let you have a stronger connection to magic schools etc. that can be tied to death.

But you mentioned the big issue here yourself. Regular Hunters aren't Undead, part from actual Forsaken Hunters.
Take a live Tauren, Human, Night Elf, Troll or Blood Elf as an example.
They don't have that stronger, more natural connection to Necromancy. They as Hunters still have that connection to the nature and the wild.
So to simply add in a spec option which provides this type of "craft" for all Hunters. Does not make sense.

I never said anything about whether or not they will be added. What I'm pointing out is just the issues with it being added itself, that being the fact it's restricted to a single race. That prevents it from being either class or a spec. But if they circumvent that for a class, I see no issue with it being added as a Hunter spec since they have such a strong baseline in hunter abilities from being hunters themselves. Why would they create an entirely new class that fits the same niche if they could just add it in as a spec?

True, it would prevent that option.

My issue is mostly with the suggestion to fit it into the Hunter class. As the only real similarity to Hunters, is the increased ability/skill to fire a Bow.

If anything, the "toolkit" of a Dark Ranger fits better with the Death Knight class. The ironic thing is that Death Knights are already undead.

The abilities that Dark Rangers have been observed using make them into sort of a mix between a Shadow Priest, a Death Knight and a Rogue. While still retaining their skill in using bows(from their past lives as Elven Rangers).
Though they have never used either Guns or Crossbows.

And what would that niche be? Thematically, survival was more about gadgets, mechanically.. well press random shit that lights up like most specs.

Survival was about poisons, venoms and explosives. Along with the enhancement of traps(sort of gadgets yes).

What made the old SV so great, part from the theme described here, is the mechanical fluidity of the spec. IMO ofc.

[DotEleven]

While sure, being undead will naturally let you have a stronger connection to magic schools etc. that can be tied to death.

But you mentioned the big issue here yourself. Regular Hunters aren't Undead, part from actual Forsaken Hunters.
Take a live Tauren, Human, Night Elf, Troll or Blood Elf as an example.
They don't have that stronger, more natural connection to Necromancy. They as Hunters still have that connection to the nature and the wild.
So to simply add in a spec option which provides this type of "craft" for all Hunters. Does not make sense.




True, it would prevent that option.

My issue is mostly with the suggestion to fit it into the Hunter class. As the only real similarity to Hunters, is the increased ability/skill to fire a Bow.

If anything, the "toolkit" of a Dark Ranger fits better with the Death Knight class. The ironic thing is that Death Knights are already undead.

The abilities that Dark Rangers have been observed using make them into sort of a mix between a Shadow Priest, a Death Knight and a Rogue. While still retaining their skill in using bows(from their past lives as Elven Rangers).
Though they have never used either Guns or Crossbows.




Survival was about poisons, venoms and explosives. Along with the enhancement of traps(sort of gadgets yes).

What made the old SV so great, part from the theme described here, is the mechanical fluidity of the spec. IMO ofc.

Like, what you need to think of here is what is the skill at it's very basic. Without all the fluff and artistry, does Black Arrow sound like a Death Knight ability? A ranger shooting a precise shot imbued with necromatic power. The necromatic power is just a bonus on top of the basic ability. We're talking martial skills here, not magic so the baseline of the ability is the precise shooting, not the magic being surrounded by it. Like, let's take Explosive Shot. This shot instead of putting a piece of explosive on the side now explodes due to fire magic. Do you think this basis of this ability is more as a hunter or mage ability now?

[Hctaz]

And what would that niche be? Thematically, survival was more about gadgets, mechanically.. well press random shit that lights up like most specs.

Sorry. Let me clarify; What I mean by, "niche" is more of a feel. Something interesting with Black Arrow and the way Explosive Shot worked. I like survival being this ranged DoT class with physical damage, shadow damage, and nature damage with a ranger focus. Dark Ranger could have a spec like this and would have a unique toolkit without a pet. And I also don't see any problem with things such as Explosive Shot being part of that toolkit either. It would make sense for a Dark Ranger to meticulously coat their arrows with special kinds of poisons, explosives, shadow magic, etc. before a battle.

[Musta]

Dark Ranger > Tinker

[Piamonte]

Dark Ranger > Tinker

I sometimes wish we would get dark rangers mext expansion instead of Tinkers but i think it is obvious right now that Tinkers are the next class.

[Eggroll]

I'm ok with Dark Rangers - If it's Alliance only. Or better nelfs only.

Fuck the Alliance.

[Musta]

I sometimes wish we would get dark rangers mext expansion instead of Tinkers but i think it is obvious right now that Tinkers are the next class.

Yeah... i feel the same...

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Imagine a ranged tank with a bow. I totally dig that.

[Eggroll]

Yeah... i feel the same...

I like your signature pic. She might be a rotting corpse, but at least she shaves her armpits. There's prolly more hair growing in Sylvanas's armpits than on Anduin's face

[Musta]

I like your signature pic. She might be a rotting corpse, but at least she shaves her armpits. There's prolly more hair growing in Sylvanas's armpits than on Anduin's face

LOL... i need to change that;

[Pandragon]

My favorite idea I've seen to implement them is to re-flavor the Subtlety Rogue spec around them. That way you'd have another spec using ranged weapons, with shadow/necromantic abilities, leather armor, and stealth. I really can't see them as their own class, personally, and don't really think we need another "edgy" hero class either.

This. I've been saying since Legion either Sub or Sin needs to become a ranged spec. Replace Mutilate with Poisoned Dagger and Envenom with Deadly throw. Or give sub a bow and make it a Dark Ranger. Dark Rangers are basically rogues anyways.

[F Rm]

Like, what you need to think of here is what is the skill at it's very basic. Without all the fluff and artistry, does Black Arrow sound like a Death Knight ability? A ranger shooting a precise shot imbued with necromatic power. The necromatic power is just a bonus on top of the basic ability. We're talking martial skills here, not magic so the baseline of the ability is the precise shooting, not the magic being surrounded by it.

True, it is a Ranger firing an arrow with her bow. But you cannot exclude the magic, as without that magic, all you would have is someone firing an arrow.
You cannot get that version of Black Arrow without the necromantic magic.

I would also argue that Black Arrow as when it was brought into WoW from WC3, despite it's name, was no longer meant to be about necromancy. It was meant to be about applying a toxin onto your ammunition/arrows that weakened your target. Which is also what the original Black Arrow-ability that we got in WotLK did.

Besides, there's nothing "precise" about Black Arrow.

Aimed Shot, is a precise shot.
Steady Shot, is a precise shot.
Black Arrow, is not.

Like, let's take Explosive Shot. This shot instead of putting a piece of explosive on the side now explodes due to fire magic. Do you think this basis of this ability is more as a hunter or mage ability now?

Not really.

If you go back to when they first gave this ability to MM, the animation was an actual rocket.

And as can be seen on live, the icon itself is still an arrowhead with a piece of dynamite attached to it.
Nothing magical about that…

Explosive Shot has never been about using magic to conjure fire. It has always been about attaching explosives to your ammunition/arrows. OR in the case of MM, firing a rocket/piece of firework into your target…