Is the American criminal justice system no more than a tool of repression?

[CmdrShep2154]

I just had a conversion with an old friend on Facebook who says the Republicans use the criminal justice system as an tool to oppress inner city people.



My question was why do the elite want a large prison population.

What are your thoughts? Is my friend biased or is there truth in what they say?

Should the American criminal justice system be reformed or be done away altogether and started from scratch?

[Doctor Amadeus]

No it’s a tool to contain individuals who can’t control themselves and follow the law.

[Jaransan]

No it’s a tool to contain individuals who can’t control themselves and follow the law.

For profit prisons would beg to differ. It's been proven that certain types of people tend to get heavier sentencing than others for the same crime, and theres a litany of sources on the evils of the private prison industry.

To OP, the simple fact is, they made prisons a business, in a country where businesses are legally obligated to pursue profit and shareholder value above all else. Arbitrarily keeping more people in the system than is reasonable is the natural result of that.

[PC2]

I just had a conversion with an old friend on Facebook who says the Republicans use the criminal justice system as an tool to oppress inner city people.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/2L2qqhC.jpg[IMG]

My question was why do the elite want a large prison population.

What are your thoughts? Is my friend biased or is there truth in what they say?

Should the American criminal justice system be reformed or be done away altogether and started from scratch?

X group is conspiring to imprison Y group.

It's a conspiracy theory...

[Gaidax]

No it’s a tool to contain individuals who can’t control themselves and follow the law.

This.

I know, we're in this age where giving the other cheek or bending over and taking it is a popular solution to every problem, but indeed some people are simply violent douchebags that need to be kept away from the streets until they figure their shit out and prisons are meant to do that.

I mean, I'm not an elite by any stretch, I just obey the law and I don't want to be harassed by those who don't on the streets.

[Draco-Onis]

This.

I know, we're in this age where giving the other cheek or bending over and taking it is a popular solution to every problem, but indeed some people are simply violent douchebags that need to be kept away from the streets until they figure their shit out and prisons are meant to do that.

I mean, I'm not an elite by any stretch, I just obey the law and I don't want to be harassed by those who don't on the streets.

It is not so simple as that with the judicial system in the United States which can be summed up as such if you are poor you are fucked. Most prosecutors boast about their near perfect conviction rate and the reason for that is the other side which are public defenders are understaffed, overworked and underpaid. If you are poor you will be assigned a public defender who has thousands of cases worth of backlog who will make you plead because you can't afford trial or bail.

A large chunk of the prison population are there for non violent crimes or the crime of being poor that's not even going into how the Trump administration has pretty much bought back debtors prisons. If you can afford a lawyer and bail then your chances of being found innocent increase dramatically even then the prosecution is still favored they can pull tricks like giving your lawyers evidence at the last minute to present in court tomorrow or straight withhold evidence. The entire system heavily favors putting people in jail unless you are rich then you get probation for killing and hospitalizing multiple people (affluenza) or rape (Brock Turner) or being a drug dealer.

[Gaidax]

It is not so simple as that with the judicial system in the United States which can be summed up as such if you are poor you are fucked.

It does not automatically make jails automatically a systematic repression tool against the dissent. Hate to break the news for you, but if you got $$ you will be set in just about every part of the world - good, well paid lawyers can drag a lot of cases for eternity and their clients can often get either lenient punishment or case dropped.

And the thing is - it is also acting by the law. Law is extremely complex and good, experienced lawyer worth his salt can navigate the very many loopholes there to get what is needed as opposed to some novice who barely dipped his toes in the waters there.

Vast majority of the people who do get a jail sentence, get it for a good reason. Your argument where better well off people might dodge the bullet does not change this fact.

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The ongoing work should be around amending laws when loopholes or dangerous precedents are found, not closing jails or nonsense like that.

[Draco-Onis]

It does not automatically make jails automatically a systematic repression tool against the dissent.

Never said that I am simply stating that it is more complicated then it's all righteous or a tool of repression.

Vast majority of the people who do get a jail sentence, get it for a good reason. Your argument where better well off people might dodge the bullet does not change this fact.

It is not a fact it's actually one of the many reasons prison and law reform in the US has bipartisan support it is moving towards that direction albeit slowly because of the profit motive.

[PosPosPos]

For-profit prisons is just the modern incarnation of pre-Lincoln slavery.

Does sound better when you label them "criminals" instead of "slaves", even though it's pretty much the exact same thing when examined closer.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Vast majority of the people who do get a jail sentence, get it for a good reason. Your argument where better well off people might dodge the bullet does not change this fact.

This is just plain wrong when it comes to people going to jail in the US. The majority of people currently in prison went to jail without ever going to trial. They plead guilty to avoid risking a longer sentence if they went to trial. Anyone who doesn't have the money to hire a lawyer gets stuck with a public defender, and public defenders tend to be severely overburdened to the point where they cannot feasibly defend most of the individuals assigned to them.

John Oliver has covered a lot of issues with the criminal justice system over the past several years.

Prison privatization
Prison labor
Municipal violations
Prisoner re-entry
Mandatory minimums
Bail
Voter disenfranchisement
Prosecutors
Capital punishment

The top two videos in the list I provided are probably the most relevant, however all of the videos are highly relevant to the subject at hand.

[PosPosPos]

This.

I know, we're in this age where giving the other cheek or bending over and taking it is a popular solution to every problem, but indeed some people are simply violent douchebags that need to be kept away from the streets until they figure their shit out and prisons are meant to do that.

I mean, I'm not an elite by any stretch, I just obey the law and I don't want to be harassed by those who don't on the streets.

People should look at this post and understand how the demographic with the least propensity to actually uphold the law, is in fact the loudest at screaming at others to uphold the law.

[zenkai]

I just had a conversion with an old friend on Facebook who says the Republicans use the criminal justice system as an tool to oppress inner city people.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/2L2qqhC.jpg[/]

My question was why do the elite want a large prison population.

What are your thoughts? Is my friend biased or is there truth in what they say?

Should the American criminal justice system be reformed or be done away altogether and started from scratch?

It's pretty easy to stay out of prison, been doing it for years. If i had been thrown in prison I suppose instead of blaming myself for committing a crime I would shake my fist in the air shout "DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS, DAMN YOU FOR PROFIT PRISONS"

[Themius]

For-profit prisons is just the modern incarnation of pre-Lincoln slavery.

Does sound better when you label them "criminals" instead of "slaves", even though it's pretty much the exact same thing when examined closer.

It is not pretty much the same it is the same. There have been cases over this and basically prisoners are an exception where slavery is allowed

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It's pretty easy to stay out of prison, been doing it for years. If i had been thrown in prison I suppose instead of blaming myself for committing a crime I would shake my fist in the air shout "DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS, DAMN YOU FOR PROFIT PRISONS"

But there are people in prison who shouldn’t be there... quite a lot. There are worrying statistics on the amount of people who plead because they’ll think they’re going to lose even if they did nothing.

Take the girl who was raped and plead to lying because cops didn’t believe her until they found the serial rapist and the picture she said he took.

[Ghostpanther]

It's pretty easy to stay out of prison, been doing it for years. If i had been thrown in prison I suppose instead of blaming myself for committing a crime I would shake my fist in the air shout "DAMN YOU REPUBLICANS, DAMN YOU FOR PROFIT PRISONS"

Lol. Same here. The vast majority are in prisons for breaking laws. Do not want to go to prison? Do not break laws which the punishment results in such.

If anything, our punishment system is too lax with certain crimes and too harsh with others.

[Themius]

You people really seem to be ignoring the huge elephant of innocent people pleading guilty because they’re scared they’re going to lose and because they don’t have the money for a lawyer.

[Lodreh]

I just had a conversion with an old friend on Facebook who says the Republicans use the criminal justice system as an tool to oppress inner city people...

My question was why do the elite want a large prison population.

What are your thoughts? Is my friend biased or is there truth in what they say?

Should the American criminal justice system be reformed or be done away altogether and started from scratch?

Most of the Republicans I talk to want to abolish the prison system. They call for a division of crime based on non-violent/ violent. Non-violent crime carries a fine that can be restitution against those wronged. Violent crimes are given the death penalty. No need for prisons... only temporary holdings for violent offenders.

[Themius]

Most of the Republicans I talk to want to abolish the prison system. They call for a division of crime based on non-violent/ violent. Non-violent crime carries a fine that can be restitution against those wronged. Violent crimes are given the death penalty. No need for prisons... only temporary holdings for violent offenders.

We have a 4-8% error rate for death row it is likely worse for those not in death row as their cases aren’t as pressing (since it isn’t a life or death matter) so....... I wonder if they take that into account or if they consider innocent deaths are worth it (which I’ve seen on this forum)

[Lodreh]

We have a 4-8% error rate for death row it is likely worse for those not in death row as their cases aren’t as pressing (since it isn’t a life or death matter) so....... I wonder if they take that into account or if they consider innocent deaths are worth it (which I’ve seen on this forum)

Never said it was fool proof but they obviously want some besides a revolving door prison system.

[Themius]

Never said it was fool proof but they obviously want some besides a revolving door prison system.

Rehabilitation focused treatment lowers recidivism. We must take into account that prisons are the largest providers of mental healthcare which is a problem we should get to those before and help them before they end up as criminals

[Saucexorzski]

Yep, the american prison system is 100% about retribution/punishing the criminal. its been that way from the beginning. Americans don't want to help those that harm, nope the vast majority (and it know no party line) want to harm those that harm them, want to see those they view as evil suffer, painfully. the US prison systems do just that. and in the end create more life long criminals that not only expect to go back to prison, do so intentionally. The crime elements that live inside our prison systems are proof of how failed the entire thing is.