"Countless lives continuously lost because human tribalism will never cease.
We the voting public throughout the world are a bunch of uninformed collective idiots with no regard for the actions of the people we elevate to power. And those people we elevate are akin to the monsters we tell our children stories about." Tommo
I like how op is complaining about doing a boss 3 times is boring when you typically gotta do more runs than that for gear.
And the damn thats cool moment comes from being able to show off better gear and mounts or running lesser content and showing off your insane heals/dps/tanking.
Do you really think being forced to do the same two mythic dungeons constantly is better for a raider than to have different difficulties so you can do what ever one you want?
If it was really about "winning the story" like the op implied then there would be no need for item level increases during the expansion all raids would have the same item lvl.
You literally quoted me saying we shouldn’t gear the game toward mythic raiders and gave me a sob story about how I’m ruining the lives of children and the disabled. Are you going to make me go back and screenshot it?
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The low tier raids in BC and LK both had plenty of attendance. In fact, if you count the dungeons that were really 10 man raids in vanilla, people did those plenty as well.
The problem of people not having access to raids was never about difficulty levels. It was about a lack of substantive catch up mechanics for later tiers, and the difficulty of organizing groups. The scaling group size tech actually mitigates the latter problem substantially, but we didn’t get that tech in place until long after difficulty levels were introduced.
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This assumes that LFR is substantively making the game more enjoyable for the people running it, and I don’t see any evidence that it is. It is a very short, very toxic piece of content.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
But... Why? It's not like LFR comes out first, it only comes out later. If people are interested, they can start learning the raid in Normal and getting whatever gear they need. There's really no reason to do LFR if you don't want to. There are easier ways of catching up on gear and it's not like Normal is particularly difficult. It really just needs a pre-made group.
If you want to do LFR that's cool, but then you're complaining about wanting to do something optional and not liking it when the whole thing is skipable.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
The only people skipping LFR are people actively raiding in higher difficulties whose gear from the previous tier makes it completely pointless. Since we are talking about getting people raiding, appealing to those already doing it to that extent is meaningless.
If you don’t think faceroll mode cheapens completing higher difficulties, you just don’t live in the real world. You can argue it’s a price worth paying, that’s at least a coherent point, but the idea that it has no impact is deranged.
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I have no motivation to do higher difficulties because a substantial part of the enjoyment is gone through completion of lower difficulties.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
Deranged? That's a ridiculously strong way to phrase this.
The reality is that LFR is 100% completely optional. You don't have to do it. You can gear up in dungeons and go directly to Normal. Ton s of guilds do exactly that. If it's later on in an expansion, there are tons of ways to get catch up gear. You need never step foot in LFR.
If you don't want to do "faceroll" content then don't. It's really that simple. Just don't do it. If you find it cheapens the experience of running higher difficulties that's 100% fine. Because options exist. People who want to do the faceroll content and are cool with it can do it. Those that feel it cheapens the harder content just don't.
80% of 8.2 alone is NOT for organized raiding crowds. Are you actually playing the mthafckin game you're talking about?
MMORPG END-GAME is premade group content. This is not my invention: look at literally every single one. From the most casual to the hardcore all everybody does is premade group content. Whether it's LFG or Mythic doesnt matter.
YOu might not fckin like that, but then an MMo is not for you, plain and simple.
But tell me: what level u play at? What's your daily WoW gameplay contain? Did YOU max out every single zone down to the last quest in WoW in every expansion when it was current content? Have you even done the current zones? Tell us where you're preaching from.
Cuz from the way I'm lookin' ur just full of nonsense.
8.2 features Aszharas raid, which has unique assets, unique boss mechanics. Mechagon the dungeon is mythic only while most players do not play mythic dungeons. Mechagon the questing region is literally a large grind spot with some typical unconnected world quests. If i could take a guess, mechagon the questing region was done in a few days, while the mechagon dungeon received all love and dedication of the developers and the art team.
The quests in Nazjatar are as bland as the other world quests in BfA, that is, if we exclude the well done puzzle quests. No matter what, even those have no ongoing story told. The game needs more Suramar and less "do something that does not matter lorewise to receive reputation for flying".
LFR in 8.2 has massively high queue times. At least here in my realmpool. Others in this forum have comparable anecdotal evidence that LFR does open rarely outside of prime time. LFR is as bland as in 8.0. Just watered down numbers, everything else is a copy from heroic and normal difficulties with troll abilties disabled. LFR has these high queue times, because tanks and healers are rare among solo and casual players. And you still need two tanks and 5 healers per LFR raid. Beside that, LFR is not rewarding at all, just meant to "see the content", because blizzard wants people who want to play the raiding game to join raiding guilds. LFR is intentionally bad designed to lure people into Ion Hazzikostas wet dream of group setting, which is a premade group.
The raid, Aszharas palace, received way more effort than the questing region Naszjatar. Mechagon, which is a massive dungeon (and therefore not designed for casual gamers, who prefer smalll dungeons) needs to be split into wings and be available at the dungeon finder to adress the large audience.
Obviously not, or do you say world quests are premade group content? Are normal and heroic dungeons premade? No, even if you mix that up in your following sentence.
LFG is no premade group content, neither is LFR. Actually, most groups on endgame level are being built with matchmaking, and not from guilds. PVP happens mainly in random battlegrounds. Yet, none of that content is actually giving an ongoing character progression to casual gamers, so blizzard tells their bread and butter audience to world quest every day to have that, on a pace blizzard dictates and not the player may set. A casual gamer in WoW has no other choice than to love quests, while there could be a multitude of possible pathes to go.
Blizzard did a lot of mistakes with WoW. One of them is that they see every pve content outside of raids as raid preparation content and catch up mechanic, and not as standalone endgame. While they should. While they should allow multiple optional pathes, and not just one ladder where the top is raids and nothing but raids.
Part of this mistake is, that they want you to play every content, and not just the content you like. Players are actively forced into playing questing for weeks, while many do not like quests. People are actively forced into playing dungeons, as like for Allied races on alliance side. People are actively forced to run a mythic dungeon, if they want to see the only new dungeon content in 8.2.5. All that is part of a sick bias the wow developers have that wow should be "best played with friends", and that premade groups are the alpha and the omega of group settings in the game.
While most people use the dungeon finder and LFR.
Last edited by Fred Skinner; 2019-09-21 at 05:24 AM.
Rinse and repeat. For the rewards. Send even more turtles into the water.
Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
Do those things help? Sure. Do they solve the participation issue? Not likely. TBC era raiding was an exclusive club, one that stemmed from overall difficulty, but also things like atunements discouraged people from participating, and also the fact that there wasn't access to catchup gear. Each release saw people fall further behind and feel that it was that much harder for them to catchup to the current content.
If you think m5 should reward the same gear as heroic raiding or that m10 should reward same as mythicraiding you have downs period
Personally I think the best way would be LFR+normal & bosses get increasingly difficult on normal as you reach the end of the raid.
And it was glorious. I only got up to 1 boss in SSC and I was fine with it. That's how you make things feel real. Even going to BT now it still has an allure to it in my mind.
Now maybe having several raids that most players don't see isn't the best way to go (a lot of people didn't get to TK, BT, Hyjal or Sunwell, that's a little much), but having a raid or two that are just out of reach for the majority has value IMO. Especially if you have all expansion to get there.
Last edited by Dormie; 2019-09-22 at 09:00 AM.