Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think it has more to do with Drumph's habit of suing someone just to make them spend money on lawyer fees. And there's the NDA that everyone of them have to sign that says god knows what that they have to agree to.

Yeah, making everyone sign NDA's when they're involved with Trump business. But of course, NDA's aren't valid when a criminal activity is concerned. As much as Trump wishes this wasn't the case, an NDA is null if the activity you're supposed to not speak of is criminal.

[DarkTZeratul]

I do hope that, as a result of this Trump nonsense, people make a point of it to demand more transparency and accountability from politicians.

Trump SAYS his is the most transparent administration ever; doesn't that make it so?

[cubby]

I recommend The Alienist on Netflix. Not as good as the book by Caleb Carr, but a pretty decent adaptation--even if it did have some unnecessary filler for the sake of fleshing out a few other characters.

On topic, I find it pretty amazing that several GOP congressmen are starting to waver in their loyalty to Trump. Few if any are coming forward to support the investigation, but several are remaining pretty silent about it. I think this is the first time I've seen some wavering and uncertainty in the ranks in a while, which speaks to the severity of the situation.

I'm going to need more popcorn.

The silence from the GOP has been deafening.

Now with a second whistle blower, and Trump trying the beyond-ridiculous tactic of blaming Rick "Animal Science" Perry, I would not be surprised if the tide starts to really turn with several GOP members coming forward "seeking the truth".

(I'll check out the Alienist - always looking for good stuff to watch)

[kaelleria]

The silence from the GOP has been deafening.

Now with a second whistle blower, and Trump trying the beyond-ridiculous tactic of blaming Rick "Animal Science" Perry, I would not be surprised if the tide starts to really turn with several GOP members coming forward "seeking the truth".

(I'll check out the Alienist - always looking for good stuff to watch)

If Richard Burr calls out Trump then the damn will break. He's the key, moreso than McConnell imo.

[Kaleredar]

Trump SAYS his is the most transparent administration ever; doesn't that make it so?

Well I mean when he announces all the shady, illegal stuff he does... I guess that's technically correct?

[Breccia]

The DoD wants nothing to do with this shit.

Chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman on Thursday told reporters that no one from the Defense Department was on the July 25 call.

“To my knowledge, no one from the Department of Defense was on that call. I’ve specifically asked the secretary of Defense that question, and he was not on that call,” Hoffman said, referring to Pentagon chief Mark Esper.

Hoffman added that the Department of Defense's (DOD) general counsel has directed all offices to provide any pertinent documents and records related to the Ukrainian aid for “cataloging and review.”

He called it “a fairly standard practice,” adding that there was interest from Congress and the Pentagon inspector general for a possible investigation.

“Out of an abundance of caution, they’ve taken the steps to have documents be preserved,” Hoffman said, adding that the saved records will include any communications between the DOD and other departments and agencies.

The Pentagon on Friday released the official Oct. 3 memo directing the documents to be saved.

"In light of heightened interest in the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI), I write to request your assistance and cooperation in identifying, preserving, and collecting documents and other records” regarding the aid, Paul Ney, the DOD's general counsel, wrote.

Ney noted that the records were needed “in responding to anticipated requests for such materials.”

[Zaydin]

All I’ll say here is that intelligent people understand what’s happening.

The DoD is already caught up in Trumps corruption anyways. What with sending Air Force planes to refuel at a higher cost at that airport in Scotland that Trumps golf course needs to stay open to survive.

[ohtlmtlm]

You go where you’re ordered to go when you’re in the military. The DoD is also massive and idiots exist within it. Notice I qualified which type of DoD employees did this shit.

idiots and corruption, the two exist together in this administration. Most people just want to go home from their job I imagine. look at how inconvenient Republicans make it for anyone to come forward and speak out against one of their own.

[cubby]

Some last thoughts before a new week of "Who Else Will Blow on Trump" begins:

GOP Represenative says second Whistle Blower coming forward "doesn't matter".
GOP Senator Ron Johnson claims the FBI and CIA are "conspiring" to bring down Trump.
Representative Jim Jordan doesn't believe that things that happen on tv are real, claiming Trump didn't do something Trump did on television.

However, there are some saner minds in the GOP, people form the past that were ushered out but might see a comeback given the current members are essentially insane:

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell tells silent and reticient GOP members to "get a grip".

Maybe after the GOP completely implodes there is a future....

[Shalcker]

How do you know that? You just said twitter did t convey anything.

Not "anything", just "anything meaningful".

Especially for things like assessment from lawyer perspective from a guy who routinely makes 30m+ explanation videos on various topics.

Think of that tweet like something equal to :OMG: smiley.

[Templar 331]

NDAs aren’t valid in this case.

While true, when has that ever stopped Trump? The Orange Turd has made it his legacy to bullshit people into thinking what he does is right and legal despite reality.

[Kaleredar]

I think it has more to do with Drumph's habit of suing someone just to make them spend money on lawyer fees. And there's the NDA that everyone of them have to sign that says god knows what that they have to agree to.

I doubt the republicans fear trumps nonsense lawsuits or any actual legal action taken against them.

Ever since Obama, republican politicians have retracted and contorted into a single-minded mass to eek out support from voters by painting their party as one of patriotic, holy purpose, leading by their gut rather than their brains. Right now, trump is their leader; the figurehead of the hive mind, as it were. The problem is that that head is a complete and total idiot. But republicans are largely unwilling to break from their hive mind and be seen as “traitors” to their base, who as a whole appreciate neither subtlety nor context, because they know some other aspiring republican congressman can use “you didn’t support the hive mind! You didn’t support the patriotic and holy mission! You insulted the gut!” as an immediate and lethal campaign strategy against them.

Remember, it’s not a question for republicans if what they’re doing is right, it’s whether you adhere to what they’re doing, period.

That’s why we’re seeing reluctance for impeachment from the republicans. It means, for them personally, that they’re questioning the hive mind, and, in the long run, proposing the question that the hive mind might not always be right. Which would be a devastating thought for die-hard republican voters.

[Breccia]

GOP Represenative says second Whistle Blower coming forward "doesn't matter".

Specially noteworthy here is a defense we've seen already: "As you can see, according to the phone transcript Trump edited, Trump did not hing wrong in the phone call, therefore, Trump did nothing wrong anywhere else, either."

Considering the phone call is just part of it, and it glosses over Giuliani's direct personal involvement, I'm not sure if this is "cherry picking" or "grasping at straws" or "believing the accused when he said he didn't do it despite evidence he did".

[Noxx79]

Not "anything", just "anything meaningful".

Especially for things like assessment from lawyer perspective from a guy who routinely makes 30m+ explanation videos on various topics.

Think of that tweet like something equal to :OMG: smiley.

So how do you know? You’re saying you have inside information?

[Shalcker]

So how do you know? You’re saying you have inside information?

Know what?

"Once he makes full video we can see what he'll be able to tell about that" is based on me seeing several of his other videos.

They certainly never boil down to span of a single tweet.

[Breccia]

See the first quote.

There's more to it.

Representative Jim Jordan doesn't believe that things that happen on tv are real, claiming Trump didn't do something Trump did on television.

We've already seen the rabid fanbase using "Trump wasn't being serious" in defense of him asking Russia, Ukraine, and China to investigate political rivals which he has now done in public for all three.

Oh, that's just Trump being Trump. He was just trying to fire up the press. He didn't mean it literally.

Even if that was a useful defense, that immediately requires "and therefore Schiff is off the hook as well".

Any attack on Schiff, such as the upcoming House vote or Trump's IMPEACH IN ALL CAPS, must take this into account:

It reads like a classic organized crime shakedown. Shorn of its rambling character and in not so many words, this is the essence of what the president communicates. We’ve been very good to your country, very good. No other country has done as much as we have. But you know what? I don’t see much reciprocity here. I hear what you want. I have a favor I want from you though. And I’m going to say this only seven times so you better listen good. I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent, understand. Lots of it. On this and on that. I’m going to put you in touch with people, not just any people, I am going to put you in touch with the attorney general of the United States, my Attorney General Bill Barr. He’s got the whole weight of the American law enforcement behind him. And I’m going to put you in touch with Rudy. You’re going to love him. Trust me. You know what I’m asking. And so I’m only going to say this a few more times. In a few more ways. And by the way, don’t call me again. I’ll call you when you’ve done what I asked.

This is in sum and character what the president was trying to communicate with the president of Ukraine. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a graphic betrayal of the president’s oath of office. But as it does represent a real betrayal, there’s nothing the president says here that is in America’s interest after all.

Followed by:

My summary of the president’s call was meant to be at least part in parody. The fact that’s not clear is a separate problem in and of itself. Of course, the president never said if you don’t understand me, I’m going to say it seven more times. My point is that’s the message that the Ukraine president was receiving in not so many words.

Schiff never said it was an exact quote. Schiff said it was a parody. Hell, Schiff even said it was supposed to be funny.

Anyone who uses "Trump was only joking, and that makes it alright" at any point, not just this specific incident, must therefore say "and so was Schiff, so that was alright too". Any deviation from that is admission of hypocrisy.

Oh, and anyone who tries "Schiff didn't read the transcript" well...neither did you. We don't have it yet. Schiff couldn't have quoted it if he tried. Trump hid it. Which, therefore, means anyone else, such as a Republican, who says "But the transcript says..." is doing the same thing -- not reading the transcript. So that defense is just as lame-ass, limp-dick, and IMPOTUS.

See, this is why it's so hard to be a Trump supporter. Trump has personally and directly refuted all defenses here. The only thing that's left is "it's only okay when I do it" which is, of course, admission of hypocrisy.

Every one of us on these forums has their own choice to make about how they discuss these topics with admitted hypocrites.

[Shalcker]

See the first quote.

See, even Breccia says "Schiff was joking" with his portrayal of Trump.

And that tweet had link to actual Schiff's choice of quotes.

[Shalcker]

You’re claiming the the full set of texts would tell a different story. How would you know that? Weird you STILL managed to miss the point.

I only said it's what Republicans claim, for example:

Oversight Committee Republicans @ GOPoversight
@ HouseDemocrats should be ashamed today. By publicly releasing cherry-picked documents, Democrats have polluted the public discourse with misinformation.
We hope the American people will get to see the full context of Volker’s testimony. Will @ RepAdamSchiff let it happen?

Republicans do seem to have different interpretations from full context rather then cherry-picked sentences.

[Shalcker]

You literally did not say that. It’s nice you’re now moving the goalposts and backing off the initial claim though.

I literally did.

Republicans do seem to have different interpretations from full context rather then cherry-picked sentences.

Stop trying to dodge being wrong.

[Breccia]

It’s nice you’re now moving the goalposts and backing off the initial claim though.

Cut him some Slacker, he has nearly nothing to work with. Besides, we all know that's not "cherry picking" anyhow.

If there are two documents, and one is proof that Trump committed a crime, and one is not, picking the evidence/proof is not cherry picking. It's just providing evidence. I mean, how many times does someone get not guilty by saying "Oh sure, Your Honor, but how about all those days I didn't steal a car? Huh? You're just cherry picking the one day I did."