Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Tenlo]

But if it is impeachable is a matter of opinion. And the majority of the senate says no . So Trump is free of all wrongdoing . The democrats dug their own graves with this one.

You know what? Normally I'd agree with you here. However in this case you have the Senate leader and others saying they aren't going to bother pretending to be impartial.

If Clinton did this you and all trump supporters would be screaming for her head, rightfully so I might add

[zealo]

Trump has already been impeached. That is not a matter of opinion.

According to the US constitution the house has the sole right to reside over such proceedings, and that has happened.

[Endus]

But if it is impeachable is a matter of opinion. And the majority of the senate says no . So Trump is free of all wrongdoing . The democrats dug their own graves with this one.

The part in bold is categorically false.

All a Senate refusal to remove Trump would mean is that Trump stays in office. It is not an exoneration of wrongdoing, at all. Any crimes committed while in office can and most certainly will be prosecuted against Trump once he's out of office. The Senate doesn't overrule the judiciary in this.

Literally all the Senate gets to determine is whether they'll remove Trump from office due to his wrongdoings. They do not get to categorically declare them to be legitimate actions; that's not within their authority.


Edit: A lot of people liken an impeachment proceeding to a trial, with the House vote being the grand jury, and the Senate being the trial itself.

This is not actually accurate. It's a convenient shorthand, but this is not a judicial process. There are no charges filed, and neither House nor Senate can declare the President innocent of any crimes, not even with a unanimous vote. All that is being debated here is whether Trump's abuses of power warrant removing him from the office of President. That's it. Nothing more. Not if they're crimes under the law, not his guilt or innocence of any such crime.

The Articles being filed represent the House officially declaring he has abused his power as President. That's fact, as of a few days ago. It won't ever stop being a fact. Trump abused his power, and that's a fact. What the Senate gets to determine is whether they think those abuses are bad enough to remove him from office. They don't get to "turn down" the Articles of Impeachment and cancel them. Those stand, forever, at this point. All that's in question at this stage is whether Trump is kicked out for his abuse of power, not whether there was any abuse of power.

[s_bushido]

But if it is impeachable is a matter of opinion. And the majority of the senate says no . So Trump is free of all wrongdoing . The democrats dug their own graves with this one.

I think I was in like the 5th grade watching Law & Order reruns with my family when I learned that "not guilty" isn't the same as "innocent." Because "not guilty" can be reached for a myriad of reasons, including the jury being a collection of useless morons who refuse to even look at the evidence presented to them.

But Trump has already been impeached for his impeachable offenses...so I have no idea what graves you think have been dug.

[DKjaigen]

You know what? Normally I'd agree with you here. However in this case you have the Senate leader and others saying they aren't going to bother pretending to be impartial.

If Clinton did this you and all trump supporters would be screaming for her head, rightfully so I might add

And rightfully so. Thats why i consider impeachment a sham on both sides . This is not about justice but who has the most asses in the house and senate. But i wouldn't be surprised if this is a ploy to screw over Bernie Sanders. After all Bernie will be recalled to the senate if this goes through and he will not be able to campaign.

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The part in bold is categorically false.

All a Senate refusal to remove Trump would mean is that Trump stays in office. It is not an exoneration of wrongdoing, at all. Any crimes committed while in office can and most certainly will be prosecuted against Trump once he's out of office. The Senate doesn't overrule the judiciary in this.

Literally all the Senate gets to determine is whether they'll remove Trump from office due to his wrongdoings. They do not get to categorically declare them to be legitimate actions; that's not within their authority.

OH GOD. You seriously think this going to trial? keep dreaming buddy.

[Tenlo]

And rightfully so. Thats why i consider impeachment a sham on both sides . This is not about justice but who has the most asses in the house and senate. But i wouldn't be surprised if this is a ploy to screw over Bernie Sanders. After all Bernie will be recalled to the senate if this goes through and he will not be able to campaign.

Are you saying that it's ok for the Senate to just to say 'We are going to vote to not remove no matter what you say"

Here's the funny part with Trump. He is his own worse enemy he admitted to it. He asked China to do it too like a few days after the memo from the white house that wasnt a transcript was released.

[Bodakane]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/white-hous...opstories.html

White House official ordered aid to Ukraine be withheld 90 minutes after Trump call with Ukraine president, documents show

White House officials requested that aid to Ukraine be held within 90 minutes of President Donald Trump's phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, according to newly obtained documents.

While the Trump administration has yet to release a single document subpoenaed by Congress during its impeachment inquiry of the president, the administration was forced to hand over a second round of communications between two government offices that helped withhold $400 million in military aid to Ukraine.

According to a rough transcript released by the White House, the July 25 call between Trump and Zelenskiy took place between 9:03 and 9:33 a.m.

So there it is. No more arguing. No more denial. Quid pro quo.

Also showing that for all the cries from Repubs that the Dems aren't "playing by the rules", the Repubs are the ones withholding documents and defying subpoenas.

The Wh and the Repubs are all liars and corrupt. There is no argument to the contrary anymore.

[Endus]

OH GOD. You seriously think this going to trial? keep dreaming buddy.

The Southern District of New York is already openly sitting on various criminal charges against Trump, for when he's out of office. And that's from before all this crap with Ukraine and the impeachment.

[Rennadrel]

So everything the democrats have been doing was complete waste of time . good to know

It was a distraction from the reality of their own infighting. They have less than a year to pull their heads out of their asses and get back on the moderate train, otherwise the regressive leftists are going to murder their chances of ousting Trump.

[s_bushido]

They have less than a year to pull their heads out of their asses and get back on the moderate train, otherwise the regressive leftists are going to murder their chances of ousting Trump.

"It's the Democrats' responsibility to be the measured centrists, even though we keep desperately trying to drag politics further right!"

"They're the regressives, even though I can't name a single regressive policy that they endorse, and we continue to openly espouse regressive policies with regards to human/civil rights, environmental issues, and international relationships!"

Give me a break.

[DKjaigen]

Are you saying that it's ok for the Senate to just to say 'We are going to vote to not remove no matter what you say"

Here's the funny part with Trump. He is his own worse enemy he admitted to it. He asked China to do it too like a few days after the memo from the white house that wasnt a transcript was released.

Thats politics deal with it.

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The Southern District of New York is already openly sitting on various criminal charges against Trump, for when he's out of office. And that's from before all this crap with Ukraine and the impeachment.

Sure they do . are they going to act on it? not a chance.

[Templar 331]

But if it is impeachable is a matter of opinion. And the majority of the senate says no . So Trump is free of all wrongdoing . The democrats dug their own graves with this one.

It's a matter of the Constitution, not opinion, and it expressly says what he did was illegal.

ACCORDING TO YOU!

Look up.

that's why the entire country is divided in a 50% split .

It's cute you think half the country supports Trump and the Republicans.

You say the constitution is breached but i do not agree.

Don't care. You've already proven you won't budge on his guilt no matter how obvious it is.

And im absolutely certain that if trump called for the investigation of a republican senator you would not give a fuck because it would be politically convenient for you.

Wrong. You see he DID call up an investigation into people not in the Democrat party. After the Mueller report came out Trump screeched that he'd "investigate the investigators" like if he found something it would dismiss the finding of the report. Guess what, the IG found nothing wrong with the investigation or the investigators. So what do you think would happen if any Republican voted against him? He'd use what ever tactic he could, mostly lying, to retaliate against said Republican. That's what makes him such a piece of shit, when facts and truth are against him he attacks with lies.

[Dontrike]

Thats politics deal with it.

That's corruption.

Sure they do . are they going to act on it? not a chance.

Do tell why you think that. I'm sure you'll be able to explain yourself succinctly.

[DKjaigen]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/white-hous...opstories.html



So there it is. No more arguing. No more denial. Quid pro quo.

Also showing that for all the cries from Repubs that the Dems aren't "playing by the rules", the Repubs are the ones withholding documents and defying subpoenas.

The Wh and the Repubs are all liars and corrupt. There is no argument to the contrary anymore.

Proof it was tied to the phone call first. and even then it still wouldn't matter. Many consider using leverage as acceptable and not worthy of impeachment.

[Templar 331]

Proof it was tied to the phone call first. and even then it still wouldn't matter. Many consider using leverage as acceptable and not worthy of impeachment.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/27/78348...eachment-probe

July 3: This is the earliest publicly known date when a hold on the Ukraine assistance appears to have been imposed. "On July 3, I learned," Jennifer Williams, a Russia adviser to Vice President Mike Pence, told the House Intelligence panel, "that the Office of Management and Budget had placed a hold on a tranche of security assistance designated for Ukraine."

Try again.

[Tenlo]

Thats politics deal with it.

Deal with what? Incompetence? You're telling me it's ok to extort other countries for political gain?

Here's what Trump wanted. He wanted Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden "TOTALLY INDEPENDENTLY GUIS" so he and the reps can drag Biden's name into the mud.
If Trump wanted to actually investigate he has the channels and resources to do so.

But I guess it's ok to be a corrupt man if you're on the right team.

[Bodakane]

Proof it was tied to the phone call first. and even then it still wouldn't matter. Many consider using leverage as acceptable and not worthy of impeachment.

Yes, I know you and your ilk think it is acceptable to blackmail foreign governments with congressional money to do your personal bidding, that's why I said all of you are corrupt. That is corruption.

That is the kind of shit you guys thought Hillary did with her emails that she didn't.

[DKjaigen]

It's a matter of the Constitution, not opinion, and it expressly says what he did was illegal.

I doubt you know a single word of the constitution. lying doesn't help your case.

[Templar 331]

I doubt you know a single word of the constitution. lying doesn't help your case.

It's funny, I had a very heated argument with a coworker yesterday about the Constitution. (By the way, it's a capital C.)

You see he kept telling me that Trump could now run for a third term since he was impeached. I told him Trump couldn't because of the 22nd Amendment. He told me I was wrong and that a Constitutional scholar on Fox News who happened to be a Democrat said Trump could. "It says it right there that he can!!" he started screaming.

As for you:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

[DKjaigen]

Yes, I know you and your ilk think it is acceptable to blackmail foreign governments with congressional money to do your personal bidding, that's why I said all of you are corrupt. That is corruption.

That is the kind of shit you guys thought Hillary did with her emails that she didn't.

Welcome to 2000 years of human history . This happens all the fucking time. Its called leverage. Unfortunately for you Trump doesn't directly gain benefit from it this investigation so its not abuse of power. Its dirty politics but fuck the democrats

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It's funny, I had a very heated argument with a coworker yesterday about the Constitution. (By the way, it's a capital C.)

You see he kept telling me that Trump could now run for a third term since he was impeached. I told him Trump couldn't because of the 22nd Amendment. He told me I was wrong and that a Constitutional scholar on Fox News who happened to be a Democrat said Trump could. "It says it right there that he can!!" he started screaming.

As for you:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

So what treason , bribery or other high crimes did he commit.