'Clicker' for 15 years and counting...is keybinding really that much better?

[DotEleven]

And you think it's not possible because you say so. It is perfectly possible.

No, I think it's not possible because you're putting a mistake anyone can have and saying it's only possible for keybinders. You put on problems and act like they can only happen to one side. I'm providing an actual issue, that being efficiency while swapping targets, needing to press multiple buttons at the same time, having to interrupt a separate add and you're going "Well, you might mistime one of your abilities if you keybind" like you can't mistime an ability when clicking.

[Al Gorefiend]

OP, I just don’t think this is something that varies from human to human. You aren’t just “better” at clicking than keybinds, you just are too stubborn to admit you need to relearn how to play computer games.
Even point-and-click games like old school runescape, keybinding is infinitely more efficient.

You can’t logically conclude clicking is equally adequate than keybinds because you haven’t sampled both sides before reaching your conclusion.

Your human eyes and hand-coordination cannot equally compete with your human motor function and finger reflexes, it simply can’t. Clicking involves your hand, wrist and elbow and requires your eyes to follow your cursor, which distracts you from seeing things. Your reaction time is only as fast as the time it takes you to move your cursor to the position you want it, which could be an entire global.

With keybinds, you don’t need to watch your fingers as you click them (unless you need to still, which just means you need to practice more - you aren’t incapable). You’ll form the habit of just knowing the exact flick of your wrist and swivel of your finger to go from 1 to F1 or Ctrl to shift. You’ll be able to make that finger movement so fast you won’t even consciously have to think about it - AKA reflex movement.

I started as a clicker and insisted it didn’t really matter because I could move my mouse so fast across my screen I was casting the instant my previous cast ended, so I refused to learn because I thought I was just as good. Then I spent an hour each day at the training dummy practicing the 1,2,3,4,4,4,5 rotation of a Cata shadow priest. Then I added in shift keys and practiced more and more.

Also as a clicker, if you play a multi-dot class like S priest or Lock. You SEVERELY lower your DPS. I can’t even imagine multi-dotting and refreshing as a clicker, it’d take twice as long.

When you clear up your mouse cursor to having a single role of targeting enemies and clicking through UIs and dialogue boxes, and your mouse itself being used to move your character, you’ll find yourself realizing your left hand was slacking on the job this entire time.

[kaminaris]

No, I think it's not possible because you're putting a mistake anyone can have and saying it's only possible for keybinders. You put on problems and act like they can only happen to one side. I'm providing an actual issue, that being efficiency while swapping targets, needing to press multiple buttons at the same time, having to interrupt a separate add and you're going "Well, you might mistime one of your abilities if you keybind" like you can't mistime an ability when clicking.

Yes it is perfectly possible, we have players like this in my guild, tho im playing more casually now. You have 2 ways of knowing efficiently when your major spells are coming off CD, either make WA close to middle of screen or you move action bars close to middle of screen. That is the problem novice keybinders have and generally bad players. Being unaware that some spells that deals hefty amount of damage is off CD is dps loss. Look at method and their UI. Either WA or action bars

[DotEleven]

Yes it is perfectly possible, we have players like this in my guild, tho im playing more casually now. You have 2 ways of knowing efficiently when your major spells are coming off CD, either make WA close to middle of screen or you move action bars close to middle of screen. That is the problem novice keybinders have and generally bad players. Being unaware that some spells that deals hefty amount of damage is off GCD is dps loss. Look at method and their UI. Either WA or action bars

You are still comparing a mistake to mechanical ability. Anyone can make a mistake. That's not checking your cooldowns, that's not a "clicker vs keybind" issue, that is a personal problem. You want to use that, then we've got a bunch more issues we could say. You could misclick the wrong ability, you could have your mouse way too far away, you could accidentally twist your camera around the wrong way, you could accidentally click BETWEEN the abilities and not use any.

Those are all MISTAKES that shouldn't be taken into account because it's not relevant to being better, it's just stop being bad and don't make those mistakes.

[ssjgohan4life]

It is perfectly valid, if you have everything including action bars close to middle of screen you can actually check what is happening with you while looking at action bars and still do well.

So yes, doing high parses is possible with clicks. It's just a matter of optimizing your screen space.

Yes having everything easily viewable is good, no it doesn't make clicking a comparable for high end playing, it is a fact. Show me a top guilds logs with somebody who clicks.

As a clicker even with every button near the middle of the screen for faster/easier clicking (and also blocking mechanics you have to watch out for so a big negative) you are still spending time searching and clicking for the button then clicking. A keybind is always faster because you can immediately press the key, no looking. The only way a person would perform better clicking vs keybinding is if they can't touch type and would have to look at the keyboard for a keybind, and in that case they wouldn't be in a high end raid anyway as they would have been sat for somebody who could perform better.

[Witchblade77]

You tell me, why are people so willing to die on a hill arguing that "clicking is just as good" when it absolutely isn't. It's not faster for just me, it's faster for anyone. Any single person that clicks will get a better performance by using keybinds unless they're one handed. And even then they will be if you get them an mmo mouse like a naga or a g600.

I despise it, absolutely DESPISE it when people claim this, becasue its objectively not true. keybinds are ONLY faster if you are pretty good at touch typing (as in never have to look down on your keyboard) AND not just fast, but also accurate and have good finger dexterity.

[kaminaris]

You are still comparing a mistake to mechanical ability. Anyone can make a mistake. That's not checking your cooldowns, that's not a "clicker vs keybind" issue, that is a personal problem. You want to use that, then we've got a bunch more issues we could say. You could misclick the wrong ability, you could have your mouse way too far away, you could accidentally twist your camera around the wrong way, you could accidentally click BETWEEN the abilities and not use any.

Those are all MISTAKES that shouldn't be taken into account because it's not relevant to being better, it's just stop being bad and don't make those mistakes.

Exactly the same can be said about both types of people. You can missclick on keyboard with bad keybinds (like 6,7,8,9,0). You can't click in between if you have no space between buttons.

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Yes having everything easily viewable is good, no it doesn't make clicking a comparable for high end playing, it is a fact. Show me a top guilds logs with somebody who clicks.

As a clicker even with every button near the middle of the screen for faster/easier clicking (and also blocking mechanics you have to watch out for so a big negative) you are still spending time searching and clicking for the button then clicking. A keybind is always faster because you can immediately press the key, no looking. The only way a person would perform better clicking vs keybinding is if they can't touch type and would have to look at the keyboard for a keybind, and in that case they wouldn't be in a high end raid anyway as they would have been sat for somebody who could perform better.

Im pretty sure high end raiders can do both ways. They usually bind as its more convenient.

[DotEleven]

I despise it, absolutely DESPISE it when people claim this, becasue its objectively not true. keybinds are ONLY faster if you are pretty good at touch typing (as in never have to look down on your keyboard) AND not just fast, but also accurate and have good finger dexterity.

Sorry, but if you need to look down to know what button you're pressing, then you're just not good period. It's a simple thing to learn. And hell, you don't even need to know what button is what letter when looking down, just what position your finger needs to be in for what spell. And even with just a simple thing like that it's PLENTY faster. Hell even if you look at your keyboard, you could probably look down find the key, look back up and press it just as fast as clicking.

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Exactly the same can be said about both types of people. You can missclick on keyboard with bad keybinds (like 6,7,8,9,0). You can't click in between if you have no space between buttons.

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Im pretty sure high end raiders can do both ways. They usually bind as its more convenient.

Then you can also press the wrong one easily. That's the point. You shouldn't be adding in mistakes as a reason you can perform better using one style than the other.

I mean, in Overwatch terms you sound like the dude who says Widow doesn't counter Pharah cause you can miss the headshot.

[kaminaris]

Then you can also press the wrong one easily. That's the point. You shouldn't be adding in mistakes as a reason you can perform better using one style than the other.

I mean, in Overwatch terms you sound like the dude who says Widow doesn't counter Pharah cause you can miss the headshot.

Because nothing is objectively better, if that widow cannot hit pharah for multiple reasons, he should change it to something useful at the very least instead of forcing players to use one and only champion because you want it. That is the whole point. Not everyone can be better keybinder, especially if attention split is awful. Or having issues with fingers. It's like I would say anyone who can't do both is bad and should feel bad. Can't mouseclick AND keybind at the same time? Well then learn it because I deem it the best. Imagine, being able to press even more buttons at once.

No.

[Bepples]

That said, it has never caused me to under-perform in healing or dps.

Yes, it does. You're just filtering it out/not noticing it.

It's like people who think they perform better while drunk. No, you don't. You're just not aware of it.

In fact, I usually perform better than people who swear by keybinds.

Assuming this is true (and frankly I think it isn't) you're playing against bad players. Go do some arenas and see how you really fare against people who are playing properly.

So is it REALLY that much better, easier and efficient?

Yes. Other people can turn instantly, you cannot. Simple as that. There's nothing complicated to it and there's no "upside" of clicking. You are handicapping yourself.

Here's a good way to demonstrate how bad it is: go play a Hunter, find a tough elite mob, and try to kite it a long distance without it hitting you at all. You simply can't do it as a clicker.

[DotEleven]

Because nothing is objectively better, if that widow cannot hit pharah for multiple reasons, he should change it to something useful at the very least instead of forcing players to use one and only champion because you want it. That is the whole point. Not everyone can be better keybinder, especially if attention split is awful. Or having issues with fingers. It's like I would say anyone who can't do both is bad and should feel bad. Can't mouseclick AND keybind at the same time? Well then learn it because I deem it the best. Imagine, being able to press even more buttons at once.

No.

No, that Widow is just bad. It doesn't mean that objectively Widow (and hitscan in general) counters Pharah.

What attention split? Hell, eventually what buttons you press becomes straight up muscle memory.

Everyone CAN be a better keybinder, it might take a little learning, but no matter what, someone can learn. Hell, if they have issues with their fingers, if they want to they could look at maybe getting a mouse like a naga or a g600 and keybind it to that, then they can use it that way.

No one is saying you can't perform well clicking your abilities. But you can ALWAYS have the option to perform more optimally using keybinds.

[VinceVega]

It is faster but you need practice.

I have a Gaming mouse with 12 extra buttons.
Via Elvui i made my interface to resemble that.
This way i was able to look at the screen where i would look anyway to know where i have to click with my thumb.

For healing everthing has a mousover makro.

In the beginning it is a bit weird but you will get soooooo much better and faster.
Also: Simmilar abilities on different characters should be bound on the same key.
Like 3 is always a movement ability for me. Q is always interrupt.

But you just have ti find what is best for you.

Without gaming mouse you can bind everything around wasd and modifie it with shift or caps

[Witchblade77]

Sorry, but if you need to look down to know what button you're pressing, then you're just not good period. It's a simple thing to learn. And hell, you don't even need to know what button is what letter when looking down, just what position your finger needs to be in for what spell. And even with just a simple thing like that it's PLENTY faster. Hell even if you look at your keyboard, you could probably look down find the key, look back up and press it just as fast as clicking.

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Then you can also press the wrong one easily. That's the point. You shouldn't be adding in mistakes as a reason you can perform better using one style than the other.

I mean, in Overwatch terms you sound like the dude who says Widow doesn't counter Pharah cause you can miss the headshot.

its not just as fast, and even if its just as fast - every time you take your eyes of the screen - is the time you can miss mechanics happening. and whether i'm just not so good is NOT the point. the point is - keybinding is NOT. better for EVERYONE. its just NOT. its better for SOME. bot NOT. FOR. EVERYONE.

no, naga doesn't solve it, if you have issues with finger dexterity - moving them on the side is NOT going to be easier then moving them on a horizontal surface.

[Raugnaut]

Meh, stop comparing yourself to your guildmates.

First - Can you easily do 10s or higher M+?

Second - Can you get to 2k Glad?

Third - Can you raid Mythic?

If the answer to all of these are yes, then clicking is fine for you.

However, if you can't do any of those, then learning how to keybind everything may improve your performance in those areas.

Imo, in order of impact, learning how to keybind affects PvP the most, then Tanking, then damage, then healing the least. Compared to those other 3, healing is probably the only playstyle that actually can have downtime in the middle of a fight, meaning that saving yourself a fraction of a second with each action won't really add up much.

[Ahovv]

The confession is in the subject. I have (for the most part), just clicked my way through the game since Vanilla, using various mods and such of course. No matter how often someone tries to convert me, I just can't shake my clicking play style. That said, it has never caused me to under-perform in healing or dps. Ever. In fact, I usually perform better than people who swear by keybinds. So is it REALLY that much better, easier and efficient?

It could be that I'm working twice as hard as everyone else for the same result, I don't know. Every time I've tried to bind, I can't adapt. It just doesn't work. I either need professional help or validation that clicking is actually 'ok' as long as I'm not screwing other people over or limiting my own play experience. Thoughts? Advice? Anything?

I mean, are you getting 95%+ for your bracket on many different fights?

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Meh, stop comparing yourself to your guildmates.

First - Can you easily do 10s or higher M+?

Second - Can you get to 2k Glad?

Third - Can you raid Mythic?

If the answer to all of these are yes, then clicking is fine for you.

However, if you can't do any of those, then learning how to keybind everything may improve your performance in those areas.

Imo, in order of impact, learning how to keybind affects PvP the most, then Tanking, then damage, then healing the least. Compared to those other 3, healing is probably the only playstyle that actually can have downtime in the middle of a fight, meaning that saving yourself a fraction of a second with each action won't really add up much.

There is no such thing as just "raiding mythic." At least nothing with a reasonable standard. Someone could get carried performing awfully and many guilds wouldn't give a shit, but that doesn't mean you're playing up to your potential, or even close.

[DotEleven]

its not just as fast, and even if its just as fast - every time you take your eyes of the screen - is the time you can miss mechanics happening. and whether i'm just not so good is NOT the point. the point is - keybinding is NOT. better for EVERYONE. its just NOT. its better for SOME. bot NOT. FOR. EVERYONE.

no, naga doesn't solve it, if you have issues with finger dexterity - moving them on the side is NOT going to be easier then moving them on a horizontal surface.

And every time you focus on your button on screen and moving your mouse is time you're missing mechanics happen.

Keybinding IS better. Take the time, learn it, you will see. You will be able to control your character/camera more reliably. You will always know what you're hitting becomes you have a set position for your hand (that being the WASD keys) and will get the muscle memory to know where your keybinds are.

As far as the Naga goes, I thought so too originally. The buttons are way too small, who could ever actually viably use that, maybe I'll set it up so I can use keybind modifiers on that just down each row. Ended up being totally wrong, it fits so simply into your thumb and now it's amazing because it gives me an entirely new way. I know have my healers mouseover heals over on them and save my other keybinds for my AoE/damage ones.

Now, if we really get down to it, if we get someone absolutely handicapped which is a different thing entirely you have some weight. But that's a specific instance. You'd be taking one persons disability and saying "Well, see, because this person has a disability that means it's completely wrong" and that's bullshit.

[hypnotix33]

ALL of the top players in both the PVE and PVP competitive scene key-bind their spells. None of them click. When in doubt, look to the technique employed by those performing at the highest bracket. Keybinding has been proven superior by the best. Period.
Prove us wrong by qualifying for Blizzcon with your clicking talent. Until then, you can be as stubborn about this as you want, but you're only really gimping yourself. You do you, boo.

[VarsityAthlete]

People actually replying to this shit level slob-tier bait.

[Heladys]

People actually replying to this shit level slob-tier bait.

People were happy to have Classic back even having played it to death.

People are happy to have stupid old arguments back even having played them to death.

[Sundreamer]

it takes time and investment to get used to anything. we are creatures of habit. when i first got my 12-button mouse, i couldn't get used to it at first.
now i can't play without it. it gives you a lot of easy keybindings between just binding a spell to a mouse button and binding another to the alt-mousebotton (e.g. 1 for blink, alt-1 for displacement)

try it for a week or 2 before you give up