Night Elf Classic Player Models

[cparle87]

the old models look very bad, but the most i miss are the druid updated forms ... the older ones look like crap

I looked up the pre-3.3 forms upon reading your post and nearly has a siezure from that evil churning itself back up from the depths of my mind before I was able to lock it away again. Please do not mention it again.

[Eggroll]

Okay, you're nuts. No point in ever conversing with you.

No, I'm right, and you have nothing to argue with, otherwise you would.

[Katchii]

Dude, any japanese animation company makes disney seethe over 2d animation, Dreamworks when they want, they make pixar seethe
all of the talent that disney had is gone, now its generic and hated by anyone who studies 3d art of animation.

Disney also managed to spread the thrice cursed CalArts Style.

My point was that exaggerated expressions and emotes aren't a Disney animation exclusive thing, they ALL do it.

[Dellis0991]

what do you mean?

The stuff of nightmares!

[Alkizon]

Katchii
they ALL do it.

Wrong, not all, not even near of being all, but still it's not the point since old models don't have this => change => bad work... but “how” this is done in old models was written in warlock's (in one of links, which according to your statement were so successfully named “it's not clear why them were given”) message. Well, how can you expect to be taken seriously after that?

For reference: old models had facial animations, not so much, but they did, and none of them was emphasized unnaturally strengthened, looked superfluous, caused discomfort by its existence, considerable part of this left room for player’s imagination, and didn't simplify them to kindergarten level, which means that new models should (according to their own statement, and not even just single one) obey the same stylistic rule. But then they said: "Hey we can't do this bla-bla-bla, we going to do whatever we want!" - and received very expected and well-deserved surge of negativity for this, and as result of ignoring it - lose of not a small part of subscribers. This is fact, as well as fact that not a single person has claimed (and still continues) that main reason of playing this game is new models addition => they not only didn't help, but, on contrary, even worsened situation.

In the end, I'm not saying that they aren't needed, but have to be done right or not done at all... and once this was main principle of Blizzard's development, but not now. These times are irrevocably gone

[munkeyinorbit]

I prefer the old male human models. The updated ones just look..tacky. It doesn't help a lot of the hair on any of the newer models looks rather fake.

More fake than the older ones? I suppose you prefer triangle tits Lara compared to newer versions.

[Usagi Senshi]

More fake than the older ones? I suppose you prefer triangle tits Lara compared to newer versions.

Indeed, people latch onto some weird preferences and defend them to the death. Unlike pixels/sprites, polygons DO NOT age well at all outside the exception of a few games that rock a good art direction. Such games are usually cel-shaded and 2.5D games from 1995-2005.

If its one thing I've learned from playing videogames for nearly 40 years its that most gamers (usually casual) are bat shit insane stupid and will defend that stupidity to the bitter end.

New models are superior in every way. They also should have been updated about 4-5 years sooner than they were. I hated the vanilla models from the start and was constantly amazed on how Blizzard put off model updates for years after teasing them 10+ years ago.

They can play Classic and wank off all day to their pixelated polygonal monstrosities and I'll stick with retail where that garbage is never returning to ever again.

[Fabled]

More fake than the older ones? I suppose you prefer triangle tits Lara compared to newer versions.

I said in another reply that neither look real. The HD models are more akin to a Mr Potato Head with clip on hair. Neither look real, but they didn't bother to blend the hair in with the models. In very rare cases does it not look like that.

[Katchii]

Wrong, not all, not even near of being all, but still it's not the point ...[SNIP]

If you can find animated works that don't have exaggerated emotes, animations, movement, etc... in some form, they're the exception, not the rule.

When I say exaggerated, I simply mean greater ranges of motion than a real human body is capable of, not necessarily the OVER exaggerated stuff from goofy cartoons like Looney Toons.

And I STILL don't understand what it is you're trying to say.

It seems you're arguing that the implemented animations are bad, fine that's your opinion. I never really said they were good, I'm saying the new models themselves, not the animations implemented for them, are superior to the old ones simply because they have so much more potential for animating.

[schwank05]

I think they look the same since I have not seen any of my retail characters faces since they were like level 28 when they got their first healm. So I feel that any time put into updating the models or even graphics is a waste of time I honestly don't see a difference in old vs new models or graphics I also play at full zoom and in game volume muted I could care less about models or graphics.

[Majestic12]

New models are superior in every way. They also should have been updated about 4-5 years sooner than they were. I hated the vanilla models from the start and was constantly amazed on how Blizzard put off model updates for years after teasing them 10+ years ago.

Strongly disagree. The new model comes off as lazy and unpolished. You can tell that they just wanted a similar base for elves so that night elves and blood elves could share faces and other assets.

It's reusing assets for budget reasons and sacrificing quality for it.

And yes, before you ask, I'd bang the old nelf over the new.

[Alkizon]

Katchii
It seems you're arguing that the implemented animations are bad, fine that's your opinion. I never really said they were good, I'm saying the new models themselves, not the animations implemented for them, are superior to the old ones simply because they have so much more potential for animating.

Well, I can accept this wording, yes, but still they aren't better, just different! as already mentioned, introduction of these animations probably pulled changes that should not have been in principle. So, everything is quite simply prioritized: 1st. we make type of faces&bodies geometry-frame that corresponds to old models (more polygons - welcome, but without changing basic geometry/size); 2nd. we add textures (albeit with high resolution) with pattern corresponding to colors that was before (no additional hairs/wrinkles/scars/spots/warts and other things, no extra details that weren't there - all this is added to last queue and as customization); 3rd. "animation skeleton" that can fully repeat animation complex of old models (more "possible" moving points - excellent, but so that key points coincide with each one from old skeleton, and hence same basic animations), and after all this, when models are already completely similar to each other (same, but better; newer, but still almost look alike), we add something that won't entail any changes (only if it won't entail any changes to everything, that was already done), just a bonus, an addition. Moreover, last addition happens solely on player’s choice basis (optional customization), or for new abilities and situations for which they (animations) weren't as such (personalized emotes, like leaning against wall, spit, etc). That's all. And we getting new "old" models with optional/additional gimmicks. So, if it happened this way, there would be completely different conversation.

Is it hard? Yes it is! Absolutely, but that’s why it will be called good, solid, high-quality work... but, excuse me, substitute original with completely different model and expect everyone will keep silent and be good-naturedly... and this all happens in role-playing game, it's kind of universal stupidity.

And if designers aren't capable of this, then they better not even start it. If something isn't clear to them, then let them ask and clarify, no problem, it's working process (they aren't “customers” in this particular case, therefore, such actions are very appropriate), but they themselves voiced very fair condition, which I'd agree at any moment, according to which models will be “the same, but better”. Well, ok, great! Do it, do it right, we accept this term, it's fair, but if you can't, no need to rush to extremes, no need to make swift and irrevocable decisions, nobody will die from this, your pride will survive, your conscience will help it, and we'll wait until you can, we will... just do it right or don’t do at all. This is the only way. So nobody have to lose anything, regret about anything, which means become angry, offended and scold you rightfully for doing bad job.