Personal Loot Feedback - Three Raids Later

[Anastacy]

Yup.

I got a 455 caster DPS trinket from first boss rolling as balance on a resto druid. My resto trinkets are 450 and 445 and I only balance for questing and lols. But couldnt trade because personal loot doesnt let me to.

So now I have a close to BiS caster DPS trinket that I rarely use.

Why didn’t you set your loot rules to Resto?

[Lenis]

If choice was given we would go back to master loot, most likely.

and after 15+ years, I know how loot distribution has evolved and what was and is available.

Blizzard removed the choice to satisfy casual players. That is a fact. Does it please raiding mythic guilds, nope.

You seem to be happy about personal loot. Why would you go back to master loot then?

Why didn’t you set your loot rules to Resto?

Probably because first boss doesnt drop anything for resto and he wanted to trade dps trinket to his guild if he gets one.

[Lyasandre]

From a raider's perspective, it takes away a social aspect of raiding, dungeons and whatsoever. I had a few stuff drop for me that I didn't need but could not trade it to someone else and viceversa. Loot drama with the old system was greatly reduced (IMO) by accepting the guild rules if any present at all, decent guilds all have loot rules that every raider should accept

[Uselessrouge]

on one way its pretty bad , but on the other i don't really care about loot so personal loot = less drama / headache as guild master

[Kolvarg]

That's how an RPG is played. You deck your character with items it may or may not need, but at some point or another, every item becomes useful.

You are right. The thing is, this is not just an RPG, it's an MMORPG. And being able to trade/assign loot as needed, and think of improving a group of characters as a whole instead of individually is quite pleasing to a lot of people.

Even if I can use a given item 10% of my time on my offspec, I'd much rather give it to someone who can use it 90% of the time on their mainspec as it would be much more useful then.

Don't get me wrong, I always use PL and I'm fine with it (although I would like to see PL loot be always tradeable, even if yours is lower ilvl), but I understand it's not for everyone. PL forced on Pugs to reduce ninjaing and ML optional on guild groups was fine, though I'd still prefer it to be player choice like in early WoD (you could make a non-guild group with ML, even if most pugs by then used PL).

[Aeula]

As a pug raider I think it’s great. I’m quite happy with how well it works.

[Fitsu]

The exact issue I expected to occur, occured. Classes got stuff like trinkets that were amazing for 1 guy but not for them but couldn't trade them, the guy who comes along to help but doesn't really raid seriously got decked in gear, we had to find some weird, awkward and time consuming ways to effectively distribute loot and drama only got worse because people were just angry to see someone get a +5 ilvl upgrade or item they didn't want but couldn't trade while the other guy sat there not being brought to progression because he had bad loot rng because now you either need to do 8 split raids to funnel loot or pray to RNGesus.

From personal experience it's caused nothing but problems and additional time consumption with 0 benefits. Just taking away control from guilds and making progression more RNG. Like, what if someone is going on holiday for 2 weeks? You don't want to gear him because he wont be there for your next progression oh well to bad or you just straight don't bring him at all now goodbye tier for you... What if you get the "I come to fill a spot" raider oh well. You wanna help a friend get a kill on a farm boss? To bad, to much risk of him getting an item a raider needs. Literally just an awful decision in every way.

[Lenis]

As a pug raider I think it’s great. I’m quite happy with how well it works.

Why would you have opinion about something that only affected organised guild raiding?

[Mendzia]

Forcing perosnal loot was one of the most stupid changes Blizz... Activision has made during last few years.

[Gasparde]

Oh I just fucking love looting trash stat items for my spec and being unable to give them to my buddy who desperately needs them.
It's just great great great that Blizzard is constantly holding my hand and telling me what I can and can't do. Because I clearly needed them to protect me from evil item lockers and loot councils because I myself am too stupid to just not play with those people.
I just fucking love that every single instance of social interaction is getting removed from this game so that fragile 5 y/o kids or naive and gullible 70 y/o dads don't have to worry about anything while paying 13 bucks a month to do their daily worldquests and pet battles.

Because FUCK giving people a choice if you can instead just give every single person in your supposed 3M player game 1 single choice.
I'm just so glad that we're being offered ten thousand difficulties of every single possible aspect of the game... but when it comes to loot and choosing who to play with? Nope, need daddy Blizzard to step in and regulate the community for that.

Can't wait for them to ban r.io and shit because a bunch of bitches keep complaining about it. Because it's too fucking hard to make your own groups and it's way easier to cry at daddy Blizzard's to have the whole game accommodate their bitchy ass anti social needs.

[klaps_05]

Perhaps its time to move on to a different loot/upgrades system for the highest level of raiding/m+/pvp?

[Raelbo]

It looks to me in this thread that most people against ML are either carebear-lfr players or just plain egoistical people without understanding of how loot councils work.

Thats fine, the egoistical carebear players got what they wanted anyway, as allways.

Seriously dude, if you can't be bothered to construct a proper argument, opting instead for pure ad hominem, is it really any surprise that your opinion garners such little respect?

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Oh I just fucking love looting trash stat items for my spec and being unable to give them to my buddy who desperately needs them.

This is an often quoted anecdote in these discussions, and I think it's time that someone called it out for the BS that it is.

Now I am not saying that this can't/doesn't happen. What I do dispute is the perception you're trying to sell about the frequency with which it happens. You guys like to portray it that practically every second item you win falls into this category. Reality is that this actually happens pretty damn infrequently.

The VAST majority of loot is either an upgrade for the person who wins it (even if small) or tradeable. And far more loot goes to waste (disenchanted or scrapped or vendored) because no one wants/needs it than because it is an untradeable downgrade.

In our raid group, a far more common lament is that an item won with a coin can't be traded, than an item won through PL can't be traded.

Seriously, this grievance you guys have over PL is massively exaggerated and has a LOT more to do with bruised egos and that you didn't get your way, than with actual impact on your gameplay.

[Caperfin]

Like many people have said, casualisation of the game is killing it.

Casualization was inevitable. The amount of people who have computers now is insane.

[Lenis]

Seriously dude, if you can't be bothered to construct a proper argument, opting instead for pure ad hominem, is it really any surprise that your opinion garners such little respect?

I would agree if this was at least a controversial topic. Huge majority of people who are affected by removal of master loot wants it back. That's it. No buts no ifs.

[Trbn]

New recruits in guilds dont have to worry about being passed up for loot or forced to give away items they worked just as hard for.

But they didn't. Recruit comes to an organized group which had something on farm and was taken to test his capabilities. Recruit is not eligible for loot. It's similar to probation when you get a new job. And it's really stupid that recruit is on the same field with regular member.

Blame the bullies and jerks who ruined it for everyone else. If people could have been nice to begin with, and not just wanted to be a loot hog or have a power complex, then maybe we wouldn't have needed the trade restrictions in the first place. Yet again, the entire argument of "for the better of the guild" is laughable since, well, get better so you progress. Unless you're racing for world first or something, the difference just isn't worth being a bully.

you are probably blind (or stupid) but it's not bullies problem. There were much more bullies when wow was released and the game felt better. and your argument is not valid at all. what you are trying to say is laughable stupidity which comes from someone who likes to be offended by everything. It's stupid to argue on your field. Funny that you say by yourself that PL didn't save your filthy ass from being bullied

[SkagenRora]

removing master loot was so fucking dumb.

If people didn't want it removed, they shoulden't have used it in ways that Blizz thought rude/wrong/bad or downright exploitative.

[Raelbo]

I would agree if this was at least a controversial topic. Huge majority of people who are affected by removal of master loot wants it back. That's it. No buts no ifs.

Really? Do you have a source for this supposed "fact"? Or more likely, you're just making up facts because they suit your personal opinion?

[LanToaster]

Recruit is not eligible for loot. It's similar to probation when you get a new job. And it's really stupid that recruit is on the same field with regular member.

Uhm, I dont know where you come frome, but at least where I live, you get Paid for the Job you do, no matter if you are on "Probation" or not. And you are paid the same thing that regular workers get.

[Gasparde]

This is an often quoted anecdote in these discussions, and I think it's time that someone called it out for the BS that it is.

Now I am not saying that this doesn't happen, but come on, you guys like to portray it that practically every second item you win falls into this category. Reality is that this actually happens pretty damn infrequently.

The VAST majority of loot is either an upgrade for the person who wins it (even if small) or tradeable. And far more loot goes to waste (disenchanted or scrapped or vendored) because no one wants/needs it than because it is an untradeable downgrade.

That might be the case 3 months into a content patch, but it sure as fuck isn't the case when they raise the ilvl every time new content hits.
When the game launched and everyone was farming m0 for gear this happened all the time - and it was especially infuriating every time a wf/tf item with shit stats dropped that you simply couldn't trade because it's 5 ilvl over your already best in slot item. That shit happened. All. The. Time.
When Uldir then came out the same thing happened again. Already have the Zekvoz bow on heroic tf? You better not dream about giving your 5ilvl upgrade mythic bow to your hunter buddy who only has the heroic baseline bow, how dare you.
Every single time when the m+ ilvl cap is raised I just fucking delight in flipping my loot spec to tank, getting a silly ridiculously tf'd Galecaller's Boon, or a Harlan's Dice or a Conch on my no crit Healer spec... only to then not be able to trade that shit away and see my peers chasing that goodamn motherfucking trinket for 4 more weeks.

That shit happens all the time. It's not a rare occasion. I don't care if it's a 5% upgrade to me if it's a 40% upgrade to my buddy. I'm neither 12 nor braindead, and I'm grown up enough to pass on something if it's better for someone else. But sure, take that choice away from me because Random Billy McCasual over here doesn't get the big fuzz about loot 3 months into a raid tier anymore. Just take it away from me because Billy McCasual is a fucking ego fucker and can't pass on his 1% 5ilvl upgrade in favor of someone else getting a 40% 30 ilvl upgrade. Just take the motherfucking choice away from me because poor Billy is a fucking child and can't make decisions for himself. Because, clearly, if someone is not concerned about loot anymore three FUCKING months into a raid tier... it surely means that loot is not a concern.

It's fucking infuriating how incredibly dismissive and willfully ignorant some people are just because it doesn't fucking bother themselves at all. Yea, take my choice away because you don't care. Yea, cancel that movie because you don't wanna see it. Just fucking affect my life because you don't want to understand why something that doesn't bother you could possibly bother me. Because, obviously, at the point where loot in general doesn't matter anymore those fucking loot restrictions are not as bad as people make them out to be (but let's just ignore those very common times where loot IS indeed an important factor and where these restrictions DO indeed cause massive headaches and frustration).

[Raelbo]

But they didn't. Recruit comes to an organized group which had something on farm and was taken to test his capabilities. Recruit is not eligible for loot. It's similar to probation when you get a new job. And it's really stupid that recruit is on the same field with regular member.

While I would agree that a new recruit hasn't worked as hard as the longer standing members of the group, that doesn't mean that they deserve to be treated with absolute contempt.

Because PL allows for trading of items, new recruits are still going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to getting loot because the guild will prioritise the distribution of tradeable gear among its main members.

Honestly, I don't see why you see it is such a massive injustice that a recruit might win some items from PL.

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I'm neither 12 nor braindead

Then how about demonstrating that by adopting a more mature, constructive attitude when you debate with other people?

As for the content of your rant, it's just that. A rant. You're choosing to rage when it would be far easier to just accept that this is the way things are and work within those constraints instead of fixating on things that, when you actually stop to analyse them, don't make that big of a difference.