Blizzard punishing you for stepping out of line - everytime

[Tarba]

Ho yeah the goold old times when a weird pvp spec would lend to a nerf heavily impacting pve. And vice versa.
That was so much better.

[LanToaster]

There is value in completely different playstyles being playable and somewhat effective.

I never run into the Issue where I couldnt play whats fun. Sure there are most of the time Specs/Builds that do somewhat more damage, but that doesnt prevent me from doing whats fun.

[Big Thanks]

Thats still numbers you just pulled out of your butt. Bring up some numbers where you Actually compare performance, of "Before" and "After"
And, Percentage doesnt work that way. If you reduce something by 20% and then by 50% you dont reduce it by 70% overall.

Now that I think about it, dont bother with numbers, they would be wrong anyway.

So...a 20% nerf...followed by a 50% nerf...results in 40% of the original effectiveness? Correct?
So it was a 60% nerf.
My bad :S

Let me try and search a video showing you numbers...i dont know if i can find

EDIT: @LanToaster

I cant give you anything better than this. This were the old numbers.
And note that he spent 2 entire minutes trying to do the burst on the target dummy.
Its incredibly random the way you did this burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk&t=2m21s

It could be a "fun mechanic" but instead it became a mere slight DPS increase after the nerf. As everything.

[Seranthor]

So...a 20% nerf...followed by a 50% nerf...results in 40% of the original effectiveness? Correct?
So it was a 60% nerf.
My bad :S

Let me try and search a video showing you numbers...i dont know if i can find

EDIT: @LanToaster

I cant give you anything better than this. This were the old numbers.
And note that he spent 2 entire minutes trying to do the burst on the target dummy.
Its incredibly random the way you did this burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk&t=2m21s

It could be a "fun mechanic" but instead it became a mere slight DPS increase after the nerf. As everything.

and regardless of the 60 or 70% number... its a nerf... not a removal.

[mojusk]

The snake eyes trait was so broken, that the rotation only used sinister strike and slice and dice. It made 3/5 core rotation abilities useless. It had to be fixed.
Same with the legion relic trait that caused assassin rogues to use fan of knives as a single target combo builder.

[LanToaster]

I cant give you anything better than this. This were the old numbers.
And note that he spent 2 entire minutes trying to do the burst on the target dummy.
Its incredibly random the way you did this burst.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huoZQmverRk&t=2m21s

It could be a "fun mechanic" but instead it became a mere slight DPS increase after the nerf. As everything.

So, what is that exactly talking about?
He tries to get his Proccs right, so he can do a Single 100K DPS burst?

If thats from the "Pre Removal" how you describe it, how do you intend to make a Playstyle out of a Random Occurance?

[Understarmor]

Do we really have to go through another "old talents vs new talents" thread?

You never had more customisation in wow than you have right now on retail. It's not creativty you are missing, its imbalance that worked in your favor.

no idiot, you've never had LESS customization than you do in wow now.....

WOTLK - comes to mind

old talent trees which was ACTUAL customization, not the illusion of customization by giving three talents per "tree/level" which is flat out garbage

then you also had the glyph system which at the time wasn't cosmetic and was fucking awesome.....

then transmogrification i believe was in the game at the end of it....im not a fan of it but its still something

so yeah, there was WAY more customization back before this illusion of hey "get a talent at every 5 or so levels" but you can only fucking use three and they are designed a certain way that its boring as fuck

oh yeah, also, pvp and pve talents weren't separated so it gave you a LOT of different combinations....splitting pvp and pve talents was one of the worst things to happen to this game

also RNG with your skills and their procs? that's not customization either, that's called youre at the mercy of the roll of the dice....

secondly in your rotations that were "fixed" back then you actually had wiggle room with how it was designed that gave you this non-epilepsy inducing method of attacking something

now its like trying to read a fucking algorithm before you make your choice with all the randomness about it.....

oh and also, you werent forced to get a certain piece of gear in a certain slot to hold on for the entire expansion.... not upgrading a slot for the entire expansion is NOT customization, especially when they make it so nothing is better, that's called being FORCED to do something you dont want lol

back then you had a CHOICE as to how you wanted to attack a boss, players or regular mob out in the world....

so what you really meant to say was you've never had LESS customization than you have now....

[Big Thanks]

So, what is that exactly talking about?
He tries to get his Proccs right, so he can do a Single 100K DPS burst?

If thats from the "Pre Removal" how you describe it, how do you intend to make a Playstyle out of a Random Occurance?

Im saying it was incredibly random and inconsistent and not worth removing this burst mechanic entirely.
Outlaw PvP died out entirely as a consequence. Which i mourned at the time. I even re-reolled as a consequence...my friends unsubbed because i rerolled.
Not really good friends to have...but they unsubbed because of me.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Perhaps you should stop exaggerating everything you post. People will maybe take you slightly more seriously if so.

Maybe.

[Big Thanks]

Perhaps you should stop exaggerating everything you post. People will maybe take you slightly more seriously if so.

Maybe.

All perception of reality is different from person to person.

I farmed for all 9 of this azerite pieces.
I play the game to enjoy different playstyles. Is my "anti-burnout" tactic.
I saw everything stripped away from me and was left with 1 playstyle per class.
Decided to re-roll and my so called friends unsubbed because of me.

It all went to crap for me

[KOUNTERPARTS]

All perception of reality is different from person to person.

Perhaps go back and re-read the 7 pages of this lunacy of a thread.

[Kumorii]

You do realise it's a multiplayer game right? Balancing stuff is required and has nothing to do with "no fun allowed". Which is just a term for people who don't care about balance.
Sure, people are arguing at times that fun is more important than balancing but that leads us to the multiplayer aspect. If something is unbalanced and FUN but perform a little bit to well, that means all others players who don't play that gets affected.
Pretty irrelevant if a build is more FUN if that means other classes gets left out due to it. Blizzard are actually maximizing the FUN factor to try and make classes more in line so every class can be picked.

We still have issues with Shroud on rogues for example. For some reason people take the nerf personally which I just never understand.

[Big Thanks]

Perhaps go back and re-read the 7 pages of this lunacy of a thread.

Everyone who knows me, knows i play the game entirely different from everyone else.
I farmed the rank 4 PvP essense in 1 week because i love battlegrounds.
I love casual PvE for the SOLE purpose of enjoying different playstyles.

The crazier they are the better. Like unbound chaos jumping around the entire instance.
It was a miracle i never ass pulled extra packs of mobs while playing. Pure Skill

- - - Updated - - -

We still have issues with Shroud on rogues for example. For some reason people take the nerf personally which I just never understand.

Because is never fun being nerfed to the ground.
With emphasis to "to the ground".

[Seranthor]

Everyone who knows me, knows i play the game entirely different from everyone else.
I farmed the rank 4 PvP essense in 1 week because i love battlegrounds.
I love casual PvE for the SOLE purpose of enjoying different playstyles.

The crazier they are the better. Like unbound chaos jumping around the entire instance.
It was a miracle i never ass pulled extra packs of mobs while playing. Pure Skill

- - - Updated - - -



Because is never fun being nerfed to the ground.
With emphasis to "to the ground".

So what, exactly, is your solution? What are you asking Blizzard to do? After you identify that, why not tell us why should they do it

[Big Thanks]

So what, exactly, is your solution? What are you asking Blizzard to do? After you identify that, why not tell us why should they do it

Welcome the invention of new playstyles instead of removing them completely or nerf them to the ground to the point of disappearing completely.
Just...tune them. Welcome them.
Player imagination should be celebrated, not frowned upon.

Listen to Whitney Houston - Greatest Love Of All

"I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Showthem all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be"

[Mysterymask]

So what, exactly, is your solution? What are you asking Blizzard to do? After you identify that, why not tell us why should they do it

Dude the obvious solution is to allow full customization to the point that every spec has a one shot mechanic..and PVP is basically who can one shot the other guy first while PVE is just..everyone is stupid broken before gear but the guy who does 1% less than everyone else is going to bitch...and the people who choose not to do one shot specs are going to bitch because theres no reason not to have a one shot spec.....

[Kumorii]

Because is never fun being nerfed to the ground.
With emphasis to "to the ground".

Problem is that "nerfed to the ground" often means in line with everything else. Players tend to overreact so it has lost weight.
And personally I find it better for something to be nerfed to the ground and let other classes be picked instead of having 1-2 classes being picked.

What you call FUN is only fun for you, not the other classes. That thing you find FUN is often the reason why others don't have fun.

[WowClassic]

Doesn't happen in Classic!

[Seranthor]

Welcome the invention of new playstyles instead of removing them completely or nerf them to the ground to the point of disappearing completely.
Just...tune them. Welcome them.
Player imagination should be celebrated, not frowned upon.

Listen to Whitney Houston - Greatest Love Of All

"I believe the children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Showthem all the beauty they possess inside
Give them a sense of pride to make it easier
Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be"

And when they 'tune' them people lose their minds and carpetbomb the forums with rants and tears how their 'playstyle' was nerfed to the ground.

Not to mention what you offered wasn't a solution, or even a reason why... try again.

[Alydael]

Somewhat of a rant, is anyone else frustrated by this?

I mean, this is really only a problem for people who like to step out of line, be different, imaginatve and theorycraft.
But ever since the Cataclysm there has been this obsession by Blizzard that you must play the game exactly how Blizzard wants you to play.
No stepping out of line.
Imagination and creativity by the playerbase are forbidden and quickly put down by a instant nerf or right out removal of said gameplay.

Im mainly speaking of talents, traits and customization in playstyle.

And dont get me started on the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP, making effectively all custmization a simple DPS increase from azerites...instead of creating entire new playstyles.


--------

I'll give you some fresh out of the oven examples from BfA, since memory is still fresh
A list of entirely different and fun playstyles being removed from the game:

Rogue (PvP)

Deadshot azerite trait: Outlaw rogue has zero burst potential and this trait gave Outlaw rogue the only chance at it. You still needed to roll a good buff first and pray for it to crit. But nevertheless it was nerfed into oblivion, im talking 70% nerfs and whatnot...Outlaw to this day and ever since, has no burst.

Snake Eyes azerite trait: Oldschool snake eyes promoted an entire different playstyle for Outlaw Rogue, just like some legendaries did in Legion. To the point of even picking "Slice and Dice" over the random buffs. Incredibly fun and different playstyle...nerfed to the ground and Snake Eyes was entirely reworked in order to remove this playstyle from the game.

Demon Hunter

Unbound Chaos azerite trait: Amazingly fun playstyle for Mythic+ and every AoE cleave fight. Promoted a playstyle that started in Legion...which was "Fel Rushing inside big pack of mobs" for insane AoE damage. Guess what happened to this one? REMOVED from the game. Completely and utterly removed.

--------

How many times has your imagination and creativity been put down by Blizzard simply because you stepped out of line?

That's not creativity. Those were all imbalanced. That's why it was fun to play, it was too strong. You are basically arguing that you want the exploits to stay because they made you overpowered.