A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[Swnem]

Thanks for admitting there's a block.

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I love MMO's, actually.

No in FFXIV you don't just need to wait for a queue. If a new player (or even one who isn't new but hasn't progressed that far in the MSQ) wants to play with friends who are already in Shadowbringers their options are; spend hundreds of hours progressing through the MSQ, which includes dungeon and trial queues, or buy a boost to skip to Shadowbringers and THEN they still have to spend dozens of hours playing through that story.

Saying "it's just a queue" is incredibly disingenuous and reductive and doesn't even come close to honestly addressing the concerns people have.

At least in WoW the catch up to Shadowlands takes a few days, at most.

Everything is a block with your logic. I said so in the previous post, didn't you read?
The question is why a random queue is more of a block than looting 3 items, for example.

And again, it's just a time difference. Aka a patience issue.

Thank you for admiting it, i guess.

Really, you are dragging this and being stubburn for no reason. Click the queue. How freaking hard is it?
The real block is the one you are placing on yourself.

[Katchii]

There are several servers with a buff that gives you something like double or triple exp up to level 70. I leveled a character from 1 to 65 in like two days.

Cool, did that buff get you all the way through the level 65 MSQ in those two days?

Not saying it's impossible, but I'm very skeptical that you made it from fresh level one character all the way through the 1-50 ARR MSQ, the Patch 2.1-2.55 MSQ, the entire Heavensward MSQ, post Heavensward MSQ and roughly halfway through the Stormblood MSQ in two days.

Not without buying a boost, or literally no lifeing it for those "2 days" which really means~48 hours or something.

It is literally just a queue. you are absolutely making a mountain out of a molehill because you are desperate to try and prove FFXIV is worse than WoW.

Point to where I'm saying literally anything about WoW here, or making comparisons of any kind between the two in this particular discussion about content being gated.

Saying that you're content blocked because you have to wait for a queue is the real disingenuous comment being made.

I'm saying the MSQ blocks access to content. Dungeon and trial queues are just a part of that. And pretending that some of these trial queues aren't ridiculously long sometimes is being disingenuous. Titania, when Shadowbringers was still only ~6 months old and I was taking a second character through to see the content again, took my DPS class nearly an hour to pop. My MSQ progress was completely frozen until I could complete that trial.

When content I want to see, and gameplay I want to experience, is gated behind something I have absolutely no control over, like other people's schedule and therefore a queue, is incredibly frustrating.

A block is like how you were prevented from progressing the covenant campaign until the following week's reset in Shadowlands. Calling waiting for a dungeon queue a progress blocker is laughable.

Just because one takes a week and the other takes significantly less time doesn't make them different in principal, the idea is the same. You can't do X content until you complete Y requirement.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

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Everything is a block with your logic. I said so in the previous post, didn't you read?
The question is why a random queue is more of a block than looting 3 items, for example.

Equating something like looting items when you are in complete control of that situation and when and how you do it, knowing that it will take a few seconds at most, to something like a queue which you have very little if any control over is ludicrous.

And again, it's just a time difference. Aka a patience issue.

It's much more than just patience, it's a time availability issue.

I can have all the patience in the world, that doesn't mean I have all the time in the world. I might be have the patience for waiting 30 minutes for a dungeon to pop, that doesn't mean I actually have the time to let it happen and then finish the dungeon and see the story cutscenes and what not that happen after.

When people have limited time to do something they enjoy and their ability to enjoy the game they want to play by progressing the story is hindered by a queue that might last 10 minutes, or it could last 30+, or longer depending on many things. It's much more than JUST a patience issue.

[doodle90]

You can literally customize the entire UI without using addons... Resize it move it change it.... Its even in the tutorial when you start....

More customization than WoW and they update it ever patch with new hairstyles =/.

The graphics is also miles ahead of WoW...I mean if you don't like story thats a personal choice but lol lets not just tell bs lies.

[TheRevenantHero]

Cool, did that buff get you all the way through the level 65 MSQ in those two days?

Not saying it's impossible, but I'm very skeptical that you made it from fresh level one character all the way through the 1-50 ARR MSQ, the Patch 2.1-2.55 MSQ, the entire Heavensward MSQ, post Heavensward MSQ and roughly halfway through the Stormblood MSQ in two days.

Not without buying a boost, or literally no lifeing it for those "2 days" which really means~48 hours or something.



Point to where I'm saying literally anything about WoW here, or making comparisons of any kind between the two in this particular discussion about content being gated.



I'm saying the MSQ blocks access to content. Dungeon and trial queues are just a part of that. And pretending that some of these trial queues aren't ridiculously long sometimes is being disingenuous. Titania, when Shadowbringers was still only ~6 months old and I was taking a second character through to see the content again, took my DPS class nearly an hour to pop. My MSQ progress was completely frozen until I could complete that trial.

When content I want to see, and gameplay I want to experience, is gated behind something I have absolutely no control over, like other people's schedule and therefore a queue, is incredibly frustrating.



Just because one takes a week and the other takes significantly less time doesn't make them different in principal, the idea is the same. You can't do X content until you complete Y requirement.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

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Equating something like looting items when you are in complete control of that situation and when and how you do it, knowing that it will take a few seconds at most, to something like a queue which you have very little if any control over is ludicrous.



It's much more than just patience, it's a time availability issue.

I can have all the patience in the world, that doesn't mean I have all the time in the world. I might be have the patience for waiting 30 minutes for a dungeon to pop, that doesn't mean I actually have the time to let it happen and then finish the dungeon and see the story cutscenes and what not that happen after.

When people have limited time to do something they enjoy and their ability to enjoy the game they want to play by progressing the story is hindered by a queue that might last 10 minutes, or it could last 30+, or longer depending on many things. It's much more than JUST a patience issue.

As I said, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Waiting for a queue to pop isn't a block. It just isn't. You can try and say it is all day. You'll be wrong every time.

[Katchii]

As I said, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Waiting for a queue to pop isn't a block. It just isn't. You can try and say it is all day. You'll be wrong every time.

Either your attention span or your reading comprehension skills, maybe both, are abysmal. Try again, this time reading all the words that are there.

[KrayZ33]

Not everyone has a friend waiting, though, and even if they do that friend or friends may not always be available to hold your hand and babysit you as you go through your journey. Expecting everyone to have friends be at their beck and call through the many MANY hours of MSQ whenever they hit a trial or dungeon is not a reasonable assumption to have.

I think it's a very reasonable assumption actually.
If someone says "hey buddy, lets play FFXIV together and lets raid!" then it's just logical to "play FFXIV together".

Again, though. How long will it take someone who just started the game to get to this point?

What does it matter? Their buddy has the money or the job to craft the item.
The new player can get the money through maps in like a few hours as well.
It cost like 1m to get most of the set. For some reason, the earrings and necklace are the most expensive ones, but they are also the cheapest to get with tomestones.
Not sure how much Gil you have when you finish the MSQ, but it's a bit. I think Shadowbringers is like 1m+ Gil alone
Right now, I could like equip 4 friends in an instant and I'm extremely poor by FFXIV standards because I'm doing literally nothing other than raiding.

[PACOX]

I don't main FF14. Forgot I even had an account until WoW players started to hype it. To say it has long term problems is wrong considering how long the game has been around while maintaining a healthy population. WoW players often forget that other MMOs exist if they aren't playing them. A game doesn't need to be putting up WoW numbers to be a success. Even then though, FF14 has been putting up signifigant numbers for years. It has flaws that keep me from playing but plenty of players are completly fine, even prefer, with its 'flaws'.

[Deneios]

This doesn't change the fact that abilities exist which prevent you from moving. It's precisely what people are talking about.

Them being common or not is not the issue. EVERYONE has seen an animation locking move, whether through LBs or otherwise. They function EXACTLY like Dragoon jumps - You have no control over your character, and if you're a melee DPS, it even drags you to the boss and keeps you there till the animation finishes.

What you're showing is not "animation cancelling" - Those animations aren't animation locking you in the first place. You're showing something completely unrelated, which is just normal use of oGCD abilities with no animation lock.

RDM flip is a perfect example of animation locking causing rotational issues. You are unable to double weave when you use flip, despite being able to double weave at ALL other times, because flip stops you from doing anything else until you land, and landing takes long enough to finish the GCD. It also shares a cooldown with an ability which does NOT animation lock you and CAN be double weaved, and despite the latter doing less damage, it is used significantly more often. Both due to the lack of animation lock allowing for double weaving, and because it doesn't move you, thus doesn't put you at risk of falling off the platform.

You cannot cast or use skills in wow either while you charge, heroic leap, venthyr mirror, flying dragon kick, or fel rush.

LB is like a bloodlust. You dont use it when the movement phase starts.

[Daffan]

You can literally customize the entire UI without using addons... Resize it move it change it.... Its even in the tutorial when you start....

More customization than WoW and they update it ever patch with new hairstyles =/.

The graphics is also miles ahead of WoW...I mean if you don't like story thats a personal choice but lol lets not just tell bs lies.

You have rudimentary scale and position. That's it. No ability to type in accurate x/y positions and you are stuck with their scaling presets which are in intervals of 20%...

The party frames look like they are from a game boy advance game, like Golden Sun. Alliance frames are ok.

Parameter(Player Unit) frame has zero config and Target frame can't config ToT or height.

Hmmm rest is ok because you can disable/hide. There are some addons that exist to fix cast bar and minimap but they are 'gray area'. Action bar is ok.

[Swnem]

Cool, did that buff get you all the way through the level 65 MSQ in those two days?

Not saying it's impossible, but I'm very skeptical that you made it from fresh level one character all the way through the 1-50 ARR MSQ, the Patch 2.1-2.55 MSQ, the entire Heavensward MSQ, post Heavensward MSQ and roughly halfway through the Stormblood MSQ in two days.

Not without buying a boost, or literally no lifeing it for those "2 days" which really means~48 hours or something.



Point to where I'm saying literally anything about WoW here, or making comparisons of any kind between the two in this particular discussion about content being gated.



I'm saying the MSQ blocks access to content. Dungeon and trial queues are just a part of that. And pretending that some of these trial queues aren't ridiculously long sometimes is being disingenuous. Titania, when Shadowbringers was still only ~6 months old and I was taking a second character through to see the content again, took my DPS class nearly an hour to pop. My MSQ progress was completely frozen until I could complete that trial.

When content I want to see, and gameplay I want to experience, is gated behind something I have absolutely no control over, like other people's schedule and therefore a queue, is incredibly frustrating.



Just because one takes a week and the other takes significantly less time doesn't make them different in principal, the idea is the same. You can't do X content until you complete Y requirement.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

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Equating something like looting items when you are in complete control of that situation and when and how you do it, knowing that it will take a few seconds at most, to something like a queue which you have very little if any control over is ludicrous.



It's much more than just patience, it's a time availability issue.

I can have all the patience in the world, that doesn't mean I have all the time in the world. I might be have the patience for waiting 30 minutes for a dungeon to pop, that doesn't mean I actually have the time to let it happen and then finish the dungeon and see the story cutscenes and what not that happen after.

When people have limited time to do something they enjoy and their ability to enjoy the game they want to play by progressing the story is hindered by a queue that might last 10 minutes, or it could last 30+, or longer depending on many things. It's much more than JUST a patience issue.

So, what you are saying is that one can't put aside 30m to play a game. Holy crap!
Maybe an mmo is not the best game to play if you are in such a situation.

[TheRevenantHero]

Either your attention span or your reading comprehension skills, maybe both, are abysmal. Try again, this time reading all the words that are there.

I did read it. You're being exceptionally overdramatic. You are so desperate to find something negative about the game that you are literally making shit up. I'll say again, waiting for a queue is NOT a block. You just want instant queues, something that NEVER happens in MMOs. If you can't find something to do in the game for 15 minutes while you wait for a queue despite there being plenty of things to do while you wait, maybe MMOs aren't for you.

[Katchii]

I think it's a very reasonable assumption actually.
If someone says "hey buddy, lets play FFXIV together and lets raid!" then it's just logical to "play FFXIV together".

You think it's reasonable for someone to be available, whenever the fresh player wants them to be available, for however many hundreds of hours it takes to go from level 1 to level 80 and complete all the required dungeons, trials and scenarios required by the MSQ?

Friend =/= slave

What does it matter? Their buddy has the money or the job to craft the item.
The new player can get the money through maps in like a few hours as well.
It cost like 1m to get most of the set. For some reason, the earrings and necklace are the most expensive ones, but they are also the cheapest to get with tomestones.
Not sure how much Gil you have when you finish the MSQ, but it's a bit. I think Shadowbringers is like 1m+ Gil alone
Right now, I could like equip 4 friends in an instant and I'm extremely poor by FFXIV standards because I'm doing literally nothing other than raiding.

You seem to be skipping straight to the level 80, ready to start doing current content part. You're accurate there. But you seem to be forgetting the MSQ and leveling aspect that is required from level 1 and takes hundreds of hours to get through.

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So, what you are saying is that one can't put aside 30m to play a game. Holy crap!
Maybe an mmo is not the best game to play if you are in such a situation.

If you know it's going to be 30 minutes that's one thing. The issue is, it's unknown. So you don't know if it's going to be 15, 30, or 60 to complete that objective.

I know for me, I'll never queue for something if I only have 30 minutes as I don't know if it's enough time to: 1) even get into the dungeon/trial as queue times fluctuate 2) to actually complete it once I get there and 3) see the story cutscene that occurs at the end.

You seem to be acting like you can just start and stop playing whenever you want when going through the MSQ, which is objectively wrong....unless you're skipping through dialogue, cutscenes and are willing to bail on groups in the middle of a run because you ran out of time and are OK with wasting that time because now you have to do that again to actually complete the quest.

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I did read it. You're being exceptionally overdramatic. You are so desperate to find something negative about the game that you are literally making shit up. I'll say again, waiting for a queue is NOT a block. You just want instant queues, something that NEVER happens in MMOs. If you can't find something to do in the game for 15 minutes while you wait for a queue despite there being plenty of things to do while you wait, maybe MMOs aren't for you.

This is rich coming from you.

I'm not "saying something negative about the game" I'm describing how the MSQ literally works.

I've played since 2.0 Beta and have every class maxed out at level 80 and have already pre-ordered Endwalker. In WoW I have several max level classes as well.

Keep telling me I hate this game and that MMO's aren't for me. I know how they work.

People being critical of something doesn't mean they hate it.

[TheRevenantHero]

You think it's reasonable for someone to be available, whenever the fresh player wants them to be available, for however many hundreds of hours it takes to go from level 1 to level 80 and complete all the required dungeons, trials and scenarios required by the MSQ?

Friend =/= slave



You seem to be skipping straight to the level 80, ready to start doing current content part. You're accurate there. But you seem to be forgetting the MSQ and leveling aspect that is required from level 1 and takes hundreds of hours to get through.

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If you know it's going to be 30 minutes that's one thing. The issue is, it's unknown. So you don't know if it's going to be 15, 30, or 60 to complete that objective.

I know for me, I'll never queue for something if I only have 30 minutes as I don't know if it's enough time to: 1) even get into the dungeon/trial as queue times fluctuate 2) to actually complete it once I get there and 3) see the story cutscene that occurs at the end.

You seem to be acting like you can just start and stop playing whenever you want when going through the MSQ, which is objectively wrong....unless you're skipping through dialogue, cutscenes and are willing to bail on groups in the middle of a run because you ran out of time and are OK with wasting that time because now you have to do that again to actually complete the quest.

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This is rich coming from you.

I'm not "saying something negative about the game" I'm describing how the MSQ literally works.

I've played since 2.0 Beta and have every class maxed out at level 80 and have already pre-ordered Endwalker. In WoW I have several max level classes as well.

Keep telling me I hate this game and that MMO's aren't for me. I know how they work.

People being critical of something doesn't mean they hate it.

I haven't made anything up. You actually have. I'll repeat AGAIN, waiting for a queue is not a fucking block. You can literally keep playing while you wait. Level a profession, do some Golden Saucer, Do some Levequests, etc. Saying it's a block is an outright lie. It would only be a block if you got to a quest and were told you couldn't progress until next week's reset like WoW did with the covenant campaign.

You blatantly DON'T know how they work. Because calling a dungeon queue a progression block is utterly asinine and laughable.

[Wrecktangle]

I didn't say I was right.

Fair point I assumed that by stating it you were aligned with it. My apologies.

See, we here in gaming have used words that don't mean their definitions for a very long time. For example, the word "scrub" does not refer to, and I quote:

• rub (someone or something) hard so as to clean them, typically with a brush and water.
• remove dirt by rubbing hard.
• thoroughly clean one's hands and arms, especially before performing surgery.
• cancel or abandon (something).
• remove impurities from (gas or vapor).
• (of a rider) rub the arms and legs urgently on a horse's neck and flanks to urge it to move faster.
• an act of scrubbing something or someone.
• a semiabrasive cosmetic lotion applied to the face or body in order to cleanse the skin.
• another term for scrub suit.

It has a very specific definition which does NOT fit into any of the dictionary categories. So for you to take a dictionary to define terms not generally defined as such in the dictionary is... questionable, at best.

While I do understand your point, I think it's an ineffective example. I don't think the actual definition of clunky is so far removed from the "gaming" definition of it. For instance, your supplied dictionary definition of scrub doesn't align with the gaming one (which is the urban dictionary one). If I pull the urban dictionary example for clunky, it's nearly synonymous with the actual definition. If you have a better more relevant example I'd hear it out, but I'm not sure you're right on this one example.

And yet there IS a lack of intuitiveness. How is it intuitive to have your generator not be predictable? That is literally the dictionary definition of a lack of intuitiveness. There is convolution in your rotation just because.

Actually the dictionary definition says easily understood without explicit instruction. It's very predictable. I know for a fact it will generate between 1 and 5 points so I will plan for that and adapt as necessary based on the outcome. It's very clearly worded in the tooltip and thus requires no further explanation or analysis.

Literally no moving of goalposts whatsoever. Your point in contrast to mine (which was that FFXIV has specifically timed fights where you can use your cooldowns appropriately if timed correctly) was... "I HAVE TO TIME MY COOLDOWNS TO USE THEM APPROPRIATELY."
You are failing to explain how that's "clunky."

And yes, as I said, you time your cooldowns with Bloodlust/Heroism in WoW - Once every 10 mins. Like once a fight. Do you realize how many times your cooldowns come up during that time, and how many times they DON'T line up with all of the rest of your party's cooldowns, and can't because WoW cooldowns aren't planned around a 30/60/90/120 cooldown time? And thus, how many times you use them BEFORE/AFTER Bloodlust, and could potentially have them timed with a badly phased boss?

That's not even to get into having to HOLD your cooldowns because Bloodlust phase isn't timed with your cooldown coming off, so you can't use it right away since BL is coming up.

Such a thing doesn't exist in FFXIV, because their cooldown times are all aligned. Everyone knows when to pop cooldowns, because everyone is popping them at once because it's the best time to do it.

Firstly my argument about CDs wasn't that they're clunky except in rare situations like my Shiva example. I have no idea how you disagree on that point, most PLDs on The Balance agreed it was a pretty janky opener despite it's effectiveness since it was like the only time we ever had to pull that way.

My argument about CDs was that in both games you generally have to time them well to do well. FF14 has significantly more raid DPS cooldowns than WoW, and fortunately like you said they're synced quite well, but you are mistaken if you think they NEVER desync from the fight design. It most certainly happens sometimes in FF14, and it happens sometimes in WoW with trying to time with Lust.

I disagree with both of these things. I find that level of optimization to both be very intuitive, and flows well with the way combat works.

Considering that it took whoever figured it out on The Balance a rotational spreadsheet and log review I wouldn't quite call that intuitive, but agree it flows well.

Which is, once again, why in that space of time where FFXIV registers and later, sends said inputs to their server so you can still make actions while lagging - WoW just drops all packets and you do nothing in that space until you get back.

No matter how you look at it, the way it's built works for what it's built for. Complaining about it isn't making your point look better.

The issue is that sure WoW runs like shit when shit is fucked, but FF14 does it as a baseline, and then runs even worse when shit hits the fan. Combos not registering, oGCDs casting and animations going off, but then the ability doesn't get used so you're like wait what, where am I?

Why would I look at fighting games in a discussion about FFXIV?

THIS is called moving goalposts, sir. You have no proof whatsoever that American data centers were influenced by Japanese fighting game netcode, and this is such an unbelievable tangent that it has absolutely no bearing on the initial conversation whatsoever.

I'm not sure if you're in the FGC, but it's widely known and documented that JP devs make some awesome fighting games, but they consistently come with some of the worst netcode in the FGC. The reason for this is not new or a secret, it's because they live on an isolated island with consistent internet they don't have to design netcode for other situations. This is bad because when the game comes west because it doesn't perform online well at all unless conditions are perfect.

This is literally a perfect 1:1 analogy to FF14's netcode.

And yet people do get it. It's only hard to understand at first because we have been conditioned to expect it a different way.

That is not "clunky." That awkwardness and lack of understanding is PURELY due to the expectation we have from previous renditions of games. If FFXIV came first, and WoW second, WoW would feel just as awkward.

Unfortunately that's not the reality we live in no matter how much I wish it so . However, that still proves my point though that it's clunky.

No, it is quite literally not. Because if the boss hits at 0, you should be casting before 0. This is no different than in WoW. If you fail to cast before 0, you fail to heal the person and they die.

All the lag prevention does is put your skill on cooldown despite failing to heal in time. Regardless of when you SEE the hit register, if you know the hit registers at 0, you need to cast before 0, which is ALWAYS possible. If you failed to, it's on you, not on the game, nor the lag prevention.

You misunderstood. I'm not talking about casting a spell than you can precast. My examples were oGCDs like Tank Invulns/Benediction. You can't hit them sooner sometimes, sometimes you hit them as inhumanely fast as possible and still fail to have it register in time between the animation, server tick/lag prevention and another incoming source of damage.

Please point out who this was responding to, thanks? This wasn't directed at you, it was directed at Bov. Are you admitting to being an alt who's been self congratulating?

Homie... You LITERALLY were talking about ME to another poster. Am I not allowed to defend myself if you talk about me to someone else? That said, you still haven't addessed my question. Where was I being hyperbolic? Cite specific examples please.

Because WoW pretends otherwise. WoW's "priority system" ensures you're NOT in a rigid and predictable rotation - Quite the opposite, you're constantly flipping between "best spell" and "Second best spell, but proc'd to be better than best spell," and "Third spell that reacts with first spell but is lower on priority until second spell's proc proc's another buff" and so on.

It is PREDICTABLE - Because you always WANT to hit the highest priority spell. But what the highest priority spell is changes within the span of the GCD, which is already very very short - And thus is not RIGID. It's constantly changing, even if it's constantly PREDICTABLE. By the time you can hit a button, the priority of your spells has changed.

FFXIV's rotation is set. You have a cycle that you follow, a resource to generate/spend, or a buff to keep/maintain, (Sometimes combinations of the above) and it's always done in the exact same way. No such priority changing system exists - You ALWAYS have the exact same rotation, and can thus cater your rotation to the fight. (See: "I cast my cooldown 20 seconds before the pull to ensure I have maximum uptime later.")

So I'm neither wrong about either of the systems, nor wrong in general. Unsurprisingly, neither of those options.

I'll give you the predictability bit, because thinking on it more, I actually agree and it makes sense. That said, you've also stated that WoW makes sure you're not in a rigid situation, thus it's still different and not the same, so you're still wrong

You must have a crap computer because I have NEVER experienced this. I've never seen anyone make this comment before when talking about FFXIV.

Please stop lying again man. You and I literally had a whole conversation about this exact point so yes you did.

Its only spot on for class with movement ability, so mostly for dragoon rotation. The animation lock on those arent even because its animated, but because they have travel time. If animations could not be cancelled, double weaving ogcd would not work, because the animation would last during the global cooldown, but it doesent, you can cancel the animation instantly and use 2 ogcd when the animation would be occuring.

To be fair not all animations can be cancelled super early into their animations. Some are egregiously annoying and can only be used alone in between GCDs.

"hundreds of hours" is a huge exaggeration first of all - at least if you actually just want to progress.

I might have missed what you guys were talking about, but if you actually watch cutscenes and skim text and are new to the game (i.e. learning things), it's absolutely like 200 hour adventure to get caught up.

[Katchii]

I haven't made anything up. You actually have. I'll repeat AGAIN, waiting for a queue is not a fucking block. You can literally keep playing while you wait. Level a profession, do some Golden Saucer, Do some Levequests, etc. Saying it's a block is an outright lie. It would only be a block if you got to a quest and were told you couldn't progress until next week's reset like WoW did with the covenant campaign.

You blatantly DON'T know how they work. Because calling a dungeon queue a progression block is utterly asinine and laughable.

You apparently didn't read, or fully comprehend what you said you did.

Here, let me help you:

I'm saying the MSQ blocks access to content. Dungeon and trial queues are just a part of that. And pretending that some of these trial queues aren't ridiculously long sometimes is being disingenuous. Titania, when Shadowbringers was still only ~6 months old and I was taking a second character through to see the content again, took my DPS class nearly an hour to pop. My MSQ progress was completely frozen until I could complete that trial

Dungeon and trial queues are a gate that prevent you from progressing the MSQ until you get through them.

I have never said they prevent you from playing the game, only that they gate your MSQ progression. And in a game where the MSQ unlocks the vast majority of content, having "waiting in line" when you don't know how long that line is, be part of the experience and requirement for unlocking that content is not great.

[TheRevenantHero]

You apparently didn't read, or fully comprehend what you said you did.

Here, let me help you:



Dungeon and trial queues are a gate that prevent you from progressing the MSQ until you get through them.

I have never said they prevent you from playing the game, only that they gate your MSQ progression. And in a game where the MSQ unlocks the vast majority of content, having "waiting in line" when you don't know how long that line is, be part of the experience and requirement for unlocking that content is not great.

They're not a gate. You're literally saying that they are as an excuse to bitch and moan. Waiting 15 minutes isn't a fucking block or gate so stop saying it is.

[Graeham]

When a lot of other MMO's don't gate the bulk of their available content behind the completion of specific dungeons, waiting around in order to complete them is very much a gate. It's also specifically one of the major reasons why the trust system was implemented so that players could bypass the need to sit around or rely on other players being available to help them out.

[Swnem]

You think it's reasonable for someone to be available, whenever the fresh player wants them to be available, for however many hundreds of hours it takes to go from level 1 to level 80 and complete all the required dungeons, trials and scenarios required by the MSQ?

Friend =/= slave



You seem to be skipping straight to the level 80, ready to start doing current content part. You're accurate there. But you seem to be forgetting the MSQ and leveling aspect that is required from level 1 and takes hundreds of hours to get through.

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If you know it's going to be 30 minutes that's one thing. The issue is, it's unknown. So you don't know if it's going to be 15, 30, or 60 to complete that objective.

I know for me, I'll never queue for something if I only have 30 minutes as I don't know if it's enough time to: 1) even get into the dungeon/trial as queue times fluctuate 2) to actually complete it once I get there and 3) see the story cutscene that occurs at the end.

You seem to be acting like you can just start and stop playing whenever you want when going through the MSQ, which is objectively wrong....unless you're skipping through dialogue, cutscenes and are willing to bail on groups in the middle of a run because you ran out of time and are OK with wasting that time because now you have to do that again to actually complete the quest.

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This is rich coming from you.

I'm not "saying something negative about the game" I'm describing how the MSQ literally works.

I've played since 2.0 Beta and have every class maxed out at level 80 and have already pre-ordered Endwalker. In WoW I have several max level classes as well.

Keep telling me I hate this game and that MMO's aren't for me. I know how they work.

People being critical of something doesn't mean they hate it.

I think you don't get to claim objectively anything, as we have seen.

You don't have to just wait while in a queue. You can go do other things. For example, do the hunting log for another job, level a crafting job, level a gathering job, do some beast tribe quests, do some fates, do some hunts, do some triple triad, do the hildibrand chain, etc.

Or for example, tab while you post on mmo-c cause you seem to dedicate a lot of time to that.

If you don't have the time to be on the queue, do other activities. If it didn't pop fast enough for you, try another time when you can. Easy.

[Katchii]

They're not a gate. You're literally saying that they are as an excuse to bitch and moan. Waiting 15 minutes isn't a fucking block or gate so stop saying it is.

Can you get progress the MSQ without doing them, yes or no?

[letgoit]

FF14 is a bad, clunky game with boring, janky combat.