Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[Buliwyf the Omen]

And you use more insults again. I don't know if it's intentional or if you don't even see it. And, frankly, I don't know which option is worse.

He could have spelled it nicer but he aint wrong. Sylvanas definitely isnt such a fan-favorite because of her super duper interesting story.




Hmmmm, I really cant tell why all those gamers love her so much.

[Kagdar]

Hmmmm, I really cant tell why all those gamers love her so much.

You can probably find sexy images of every WoW characters on the internet. It doesn't mean the majority of players who like Sylvannas is because they think she is sexy. You have no idea why those players love her.

Why can't some players love her because she is cruel and sadistic and prety much is the only character that have a real "dark" theme now that Arthas is no more.

Personally i like her because she doesn't give a shit. She has a dark past, she was trying for a long time to find a way of getting more undead and she was always denied that every time. Now she just said fuck all of you i'll find my own way.

And i would guess because that part of the story is unknown yet. But maybe when she killed herself from top of LK tower that what she saw of the other side made her kinda not want to re"live" that and she is trying to find a way to "live" eternally with the powers of Death. Like if she become Death herself she can't really die anymore. But that's my theory.

[Djanco]

in island expeditions there's already tinkers you fight. the opposing faction has a tank class inside a robot that when you kill it the pilot jumps out and runs on foot, and others that drop turrets that shoot and heal. that's enough evidence alone. /thread

[Kagdar]

in island expeditions there's already tinkers you fight. the opposing faction has a tank class inside a robot that when you kill it the pilot jumps out and runs on foot, and others that drop turrets that shoot and heal. that's enough evidence alone. /thread

Yes and having a big mech clogging the view of players in raid when we all stack would really be a cool feature that really needs to be added to the game...
The way they implemented the Tinkers in Islands cannot be directly transferred to a playable class.

[Cosmic Janitor]

in island expeditions there's already tinkers you fight. the opposing faction has a tank class inside a robot that when you kill it the pilot jumps out and runs on foot, and others that drop turrets that shoot and heal. that's enough evidence alone. /thread

There is also gladiators, spell blades, arcane weavers and probably all other racial themed special classes that have yet to make it into the game. IE are the biggest non-argument of them all. These are supposed to show racial units and spice up existing class paradigms by mixing and matching stuff that we the players don't usually face.

[Dragtox]

+ adding tinker as a class wuld make engineering maby even more useful by making equipment for tinker in engineering
it wuld help a profession

[Buliwyf the Omen]

You can probably find sexy images of every WoW characters on the internet. It doesn't mean the majority of players who like Sylvannas is because they think she is sexy. You have no idea why those players love her.

Why can't some players love her because she is cruel and sadistic and prety much is the only character that have a real "dark" theme now that Arthas is no more.

Come on, dont fool yourself. 70% love her because she is a sexy undead chick waifu, I mean look at the lore/story writer for her that involves himself as a "dark mirror" in Nathanos.

Yeah, some people or those people who love her because she is sexy probably also like her because of her WC3 story, but that is for sure not the majority.

Please, mate, dont be that silly. Sex Sells is not a product from yesterday.

Yes and having a big mech clogging the view of players in raid when we all stack would really be a cool feature that really needs to be added to the game...
The way they implemented the Tinkers in Islands cannot be directly transferred to a playable class.

They dont have to be bigger than Taurens, or just very slightly, and it makes it a non issue. DH Metamorphosis are also fairly big, so are Tauren Warriors using Avatar. Zero issue here.

[Ielenia]

He could have spelled it nicer but he aint wrong. Sylvanas definitely isnt such a fan-favorite because of her super duper interesting story.

Not questioning that. I was questioning Teriz' poor choice of words, which he double-downed on.

[Teriz]

It's hard for you, apparently, as you're using hindsight on this. Death knights, before Wrath, were not the "masters of necromancy". They were literally warriors with shadow powers. Not a single death knight would rise even a single skeleton, back during vanilla WoW. The only ones who did were necromancers. Only when they were introduced as a playable class that the other death knights got retroactively fitted with the class' powers.

You mean the necromancers they commanded? Okay....

Also didn't Arthas create both Kel'thuzad Banshee Sylvanas as a Death Knight?

So warlocks are necromancers? I thought all necromancy should belong to death knights, and death knights alone, according to you?

Warlocks dont use Blood magic.

Nope. You made the positive claim that Rivendare is not a paladin, despite no information at all being given about his "class". It's on you to prove he's not.

Uh, I told you to read his bio. Did you need me to link you to his bios? They're fairly easy to find via the magic of the internet.

There is no such thing. The only thing Blizzard has "established" is that death knights that the Lich King rose were simply warriors with shadow powers. Not even a hint of necromancy as none of them had anything necromancy-related, and we had necromancy abilities in WoW even in vanilla. Which means, judging by how the death knights were presented in vanilla WoW, they were lesser versions of the death knights we saw back in WC3, since they couldn't even raise the dead.

Baron Rivendare could spawn skeletons long before WotLK;

http://wow-pro.com/dungeon_and_raid_...ratholme_guide

It was only after they became a playable race that the other death knights were "retroactively upgraded" to have frost, blood and unholy powers.

False, as usual.

I'm not "minimalizing" anything. That was the entirety of Chen's role. Can you name one important, meaningful thing he did during the entirety of Mists of Pandaria?

Anyone can look up the exploits of Chen in MoP and see how flawed your opinion is. It's about as flawed as your view on DKs before WotLK.

And you use more insults again.

What's wrong? Are you one of those Sylvanas worshippers I was talking about?

- - - Updated - - -

There is also gladiators, spell blades, arcane weavers and probably all other racial themed special classes that have yet to make it into the game. IE are the biggest non-argument of them all. These are supposed to show racial units and spice up existing class paradigms by mixing and matching stuff that we the players don't usually face.

Yeah, its doubtful any of those will be classes. There's a reason Blizzard has stayed on the WC3 heroes since they started releasing expansion classes.

[Logwyn]

Nothing wrong with tinkers. I just hope they won't be exclusive to all the short races.

Gnomes, Mech-Gnomes, Fox-Men, and Goblins

Dranei and Light-forged would be a good choice. Maybe Pandarians? Humans and dwarves for sure.

Horde Forsaken. Blood Elves? Nightborne? Blizzard could always add some allies to even it out if they really want too.

[Dragtox]

Gnomes, Mech-Gnomes, Fox-Men, and Goblins

Dranei and Light-forged would be a good choice. Maybe Pandarians? Humans and dwarves for sure.

Horde Forsaken. Blood Elves? Nightborne? Blizzard could always add some allies to even it out if they really want too.

alliance dark iron dwarf, dwarf, gnome, mechagnome, draenei and lightforged draenei i base this on the machines their faction makes wich makes it possible as tinker
horde orc, goblin, blood elf?, nightborne? and mag'har orc horde got fewer options but i dont think that is a good enof reason to not have tinker
pandaren dont really show much tinker stuff

[protip]

For races I see gnomes, mechagnomes, dwarves, and Dark Iron dwarves for Alliance, and goblins, vulpera, Forsaken, and Mag’har orcs for Horde.

If anything, though, I’d expect them to open up more options just to appeal to the most people. Quite a few people have suggested Blood Elves or draenei having access to tinkers as well, but their constructs are all magical, so I have my doubts. Looking forward to finding out.

[Teriz]

As for @Teriz you mentioned earlier that Sylvanas is on the box art of Bfa is infact not true, here's the cover art:

You're forgetting the alternates.

[Ielenia]

You mean the necromancers they commanded? Okay....

Also didn't Arthas create both Kel'thuzad Banshee Sylvanas as a Death Knight?

Frostmourne's power did. Not Arthas.

Warlocks dont use Blood magic.

Who said anything about blood magic? I simply pointed out the warlock spells "Drain Life" and "Health Funnel" exist.

Uh, I told you to read his bio. Did you need me to link you to his bios? They're fairly easy to find via the magic of the internet.

"In life, Baron Rivendare was a rich landowner in Stratholme and a friend to Kel'Thuzad who convinced him to join the Cult of the Damned.[1] During the Third War, after Arthas Menethil left for Northrend to hunt Mal'Ganis, Rivendare sent a shipment of grain to a village of Lordaeron where Thomas Thomson happened to be stationed at. When the villagers turned into mindless zombies, Thomas understood that Rivendare was a traitor and reported it to the rest of the Silver Hand paladins.[3] Rivendare eventually became a death knight and was placed in control of the burning remains of Stratholme.[1] When he became a champion of the Scourge, he condemned his favorite horse to join him in undeath.[4] At some point, he held Ysida Harmon captive."

Where, anywhere in that sentence, says that Rivendare was not a paladin? Paladins can do evil things.

Baron Rivendare could spawn skeletons long before WotLK;

http://wow-pro.com/dungeon_and_raid_...ratholme_guide

He was the exception, not the rule. Naxxramas was full of death knights, and none summoned skeletons. Not even the "four horsemen", which are supposed to be "elite death knights", summoned skeletons.

False, as usual.

A claim of "false" without actually offering any evidence is meaningless, Teriz. You're just basically handwaving evidence. I mean, look at how the Death Knight Captain mob was before and after WotLK. How the Death Knight Understudy was before and after. How the Death Knight Captain was before and after.

Anyone can look up the exploits of Chen in MoP and see how flawed your opinion is. It's about as flawed as your view on DKs before WotLK.

Achievement such as... freeing his family's brewery from a hozen invasion? Nice, but meaningless in the expansion's main story.

[W1shm4ster]

"In life, Baron Rivendare was a rich landowner in Stratholme and a friend to Kel'Thuzad who convinced him to join the Cult of the Damned.[1] During the Third War, after Arthas Menethil left for Northrend to hunt Mal'Ganis, Rivendare sent a shipment of grain to a village of Lordaeron where Thomas Thomson happened to be stationed at. When the villagers turned into mindless zombies, Thomas understood that Rivendare was a traitor and reported it to the rest of the Silver Hand paladins.[3] Rivendare eventually became a death knight and was placed in control of the burning remains of Stratholme.[1] When he became a champion of the Scourge, he condemned his favorite horse to join him in undeath.[4] At some point, he held Ysida Harmon captive."

Where, anywhere in that sentence, says that Rivendare was not a paladin? Paladins can do evil things.

But where does it state he is a paladin? The only thing it says was, that Thomas reported it to the Silver Hand, which is kinda obvious since Thomas is a paladin himself. Nowhere does it say Rivendare was a paladin, all it says he was friends with Kel'thuzad and that he is a rich landowner, which kinda gives away the fact, that he isn't a paladin. A paladin devoted to his order and teachings wouldn't be a rich landowner, the time wouldn't even be there for him to do that.

Edit: Even the info section on the wiki page never said he was a paladin or member of the silver hand before becoming a death knight. It only states he recieved the power and title of death knight.

[jellmoo]

"In life, Baron Rivendare was a rich landowner in Stratholme and a friend to Kel'Thuzad who convinced him to join the Cult of the Damned.[1] During the Third War, after Arthas Menethil left for Northrend to hunt Mal'Ganis, Rivendare sent a shipment of grain to a village of Lordaeron where Thomas Thomson happened to be stationed at. When the villagers turned into mindless zombies, Thomas understood that Rivendare was a traitor and reported it to the rest of the Silver Hand paladins.[3] Rivendare eventually became a death knight and was placed in control of the burning remains of Stratholme.[1] When he became a champion of the Scourge, he condemned his favorite horse to join him in undeath.[4] At some point, he held Ysida Harmon captive."

Where, anywhere in that sentence, says that Rivendare was not a paladin? Paladins can do evil things.

To be fair, it also doesn't say he wasn't a Druid, Shaman, electrician, stand up comedian, man that once ate his body weight in cake or a amateur mime. Wanting somebody to prove that he wasn't something based on there not being an explicit mention of that fact is kind of silly.

[Ielenia]

But where does it state he is a paladin? The only thing it says was, that Thomas reported it to the Silver Hand, which is kinda obvious since Thomas is a paladin himself. Nowhere does it say Rivendare was a paladin, all it says he was friends with Kel'thuzad and that he is a rich landowner, which kinda gives away the fact, that he isn't a paladin. A paladin devoted to his order and teachings wouldn't be a rich landowner, the time wouldn't even be there for him to do that.

Edit: Even the info section on the wiki page never said he was a paladin or member of the silver hand before becoming a death knight. It only states he recieved the power and title of death knight.

I'm not saying he was a paladin. My point is that we don't know if he was a paladin or not.

This whole debacle came from Teriz when I mentioned death knights of old were drawn from paladins, as per Warcraft lore, and then he pointed at Baron Rivendare as him not being a paladin. I simply asked him to prove his claim that Rivendare was not a paladin prior to becoming a death knight.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, it also doesn't say he wasn't a Druid, Shaman, electrician, stand up comedian, man that once ate his body weight in cake or a amateur mime. Wanting somebody to prove that he wasn't something based on there not being an explicit mention of that fact is kind of silly.

My point is: we don't know, and all that you mention is meaningless, but the claim about him being or not being a paladin is pivotal here, considering Warcraft lore said the first death knights were paladins, but Teriz offerdd Rivendare as a counter-point. I simply asked him to show me the evidence that proves Rivendare was not a paladin.

[jellmoo]

My point is: we don't know, and all that you mention is meaningless, but the claim about him being or not being a paladin is pivotal here, considering Warcraft lore said the first death knights were paladins, but Teriz offerdd Rivendare as a counter-point. I simply asked him to show me the evidence that proves Rivendare was not a paladin.

But you're asking him to prove the impossible. Asking him to prove a character is not something based on there not being an explicit mention of it is ridiculous. It's not like there's going to be a line like:

"In life, Baron Rivendare was a rich landowner and totally not a Paladin in Stratholme and a friend to Kel'Thuzad..."

We can say the same thing about every character in the game. It never explicitly says that Sylvanas isn't a Paladin. It also never says that Thrall isn't a Paladin. Nor does it mention that Basic Campfire isn't a Paladin.

We can infer that Rivendare isn't a Paladin based on the fact that every description of a Paladin in lore pretty much starts by mentioning the fact that he or she is a Paladin. It's a great descriptor and Blizzard loves to use it. The fact that they didn't here is pretty telling.

[Ielenia]

But you're asking him to prove the impossible. Asking him to prove a character is not something based on there not being an explicit mention of it is ridiculous. It's not like there's going to be a line like:

"In life, Baron Rivendare was a rich landowner and totally not a Paladin in Stratholme and a friend to Kel'Thuzad..."

We can say the same thing about every character in the game. It never explicitly says that Sylvanas isn't a Paladin. It also never says that Thrall isn't a Paladin. Nor does it mention that Basic Campfire isn't a Paladin.

Then perhaps Teriz should refrain from making positive claims about things he has no way of proving.

We can infer that Rivendare isn't a Paladin based on the fact that every description of a Paladin in lore pretty much starts by mentioning the fact that he or she is a Paladin. It's a great descriptor and Blizzard loves to use it. The fact that they didn't here is pretty telling.

Rivendare lacks that descriptor in his bio, true, but then we have Warcraft lore telling us that death knights prior to Arthas' ascension to the Frozen Throne were paladins. From that we can infer that Rivendare likely was a paladin, since became a death knight.

[W1shm4ster]

I'm not saying he was a paladin. My point is that we don't know if he was a paladin or not.

This whole debacle came from Teriz when I mentioned death knights of old were drawn from paladins, as per Warcraft lore, and then he pointed at Baron Rivendare as him not being a paladin. I simply asked him to prove his claim that Rivendare was not a paladin prior to becoming a death knight

Im 100% sure, that he wasn't simply for that fact which i pointed out: being a rich landowner. Im also aware of this old lore, but that might have been already retconned without them informing us about it.

Edit: Or let me say it this way: Maybe the communication wasn't there among them at that time, who knows, but why would it say everywhere "Ex-Paladin", but not for him if he were?