Sadly looking like Tinkers could become a reality.

[ArenaDk]

Funny, I seem to remember The Alliance scouting and killing Goblin miners in Silithis which seems to have sparked the war campaign off, oh yeah that doesnt count does it...

Screw Tinkers I'm firmly against and I hope Blizz does opinion polls, usually I'm more for options for everyone but arrogance of some people has ruined that stance.

Also don't quote me no more I don't want to see anymore of your obnoxious posts so I've done something so I don't have to see them anymore. K thanks nice life.

1. the goblins are hostile for the alliance from the start

2. the horde kills alliance spys before the alliance kills miner

[Ielenia]

My point was that draining life via blood magic is Necromancy.

Except warlocks don't use blood magic. They use fel magic.

Gazlowe has been getting pushed into that role by Blizzard for a few years now.

But we still have no mention of him actually being a "tinker". You can't cherry pick, Teriz. If Baron Rivendare is not a paladin because there's no mention of him being a paladin, then Gazlowe is also not a tinker because there's no mention of him being a tinker.

That's quite a bit different than Rivendare who was a land owning aristocrat and not a Paladin.

You're making a positive claim. Prove it.

It does because you said that exception never existed.

Because I missed one exception? That doesn't counter the pattern. Back in vanilla you had bucket-loads of death knights, and none of them raised undead... except for one. That's like saying death knights can have holy powers because ONE death knight could (Sir Zeliek). Back during TBC, in a discussion about a possible death knight class, would you have argued they had a holy spec because of Zeliek?

Yes you did:

Ok. I stand corrected, then. But the existence of one death knight that could raise the dead does not change the fact that 90+% of them could not.

The point is that Chen had a big role in MoP, and a big presence since he was the archetypal pandaren and Monk. If Dark Rangers are the next class, then Sylvanas will have to play a large part in the next expansion.

Saying he played a "big role" is just plain dishonest. The 'biggest thing' he did happened mostly off-screen.

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https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/zZ2Lsin_FZtnm7I4fCjoKA--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz02MDA-/https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/h0RQxrcwphk-J4PbSdHb098Gac4=/0x0:3840x2160/1200x800/filters:focal(1613x773:2227x1387)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/59370355/World_of_Warcraft_Battle_for_Azeroth_Sylvanas_v._Anduin_Key_Art.0.jpg.cf.jpg

https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/Oc...ogo.jpg.cf.jpg

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/

The first image never shows up in the official website.

"Following the links" ("buy now" and "learn more") only shows pages with the "generic orc vs generic human" image.

[Weallscream]

next expansion it will be a Necromancer expansion since it's a lich king expansion.

[W1shm4ster]

Uncertain as we are never shown us being risen.


So a meaningless mention that has nothing to do with what is being discussed?


I also don't think I have ever seen any mention that Gazlowe or Siegecrafter Blackfuse being tinkers. That aside, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".


No, it doesn't. If anything, he heavily supports the argument for being such an exception in a myriad of death knights.


I did not said that. I said they did not have frost or blood powers, and such abilities were retroactively added to them when death knights became a playable class. And it's what I believe will happen to current dark rangers: banshee powers, and/or whatever new powers Blizzard decides to give them if they introduce them as a playable class, will be retroactively added to the current dark rangers.


Admittedly, I forgot about that. But even then, it's still a minor thing considering it happened mostly in the background, as you only saw it once or twice. Nowhere near like all the involvement the Lich King and Illidan had on "their" expansions, i.e., Wrath and Legion.

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I'm pretty sure land can often be given as rewards for great deeds, and taken as spoils as well, at least it's how it was during the medieval ages, in real life. Nothing about Baron Rivendare... being rich, being a landowner, managing Stratholme, none of that precludes him from being or having been a paladin.

I give up on you, you don't even read the stuff i right, i literally said that about getting land as a reward. You're just repeating what i also wrote, but you're so adamant, that the rest is wrong and you're write, it doesn't matter what anyone says.

[Teriz]

Except warlocks don't use blood magic. They use fel magic.

DKs drain life using Blood magic.

But we still have no mention of him actually being a "tinker". You can't cherry pick, Teriz. If Baron Rivendare is not a paladin because there's no mention of him being a paladin, then Gazlowe is also not a tinker because there's no mention of him being a tinker.

Yet we have Gazlowe utilizing Tinker abilities. Do we have any examples of Rivendare using Paladin abilities?

You're making a positive claim. Prove it.

I already have. You're the only person here who seems to require Blizzard to tell explicitly that Rivendare wasn't a paladin.

Because I missed one exception? That doesn't counter the pattern. Back in vanilla you had bucket-loads of death knights, and none of them raised undead... except for one. That's like saying death knights can have holy powers because ONE death knight could (Sir Zeliek). Back during TBC, in a discussion about a possible death knight class, would you have argued they had a holy spec because of Zeliek?


Ok. I stand corrected, then. But the existence of one death knight that could raise the dead does not change the fact that 90+% of them could not.

Until we find the next "exception" right?

Saying he played a "big role" is just plain dishonest. The 'biggest thing' he did happened mostly off-screen.

Thrall and Voljin would have been killed, and the Darkspear rebellion may have failed without his help.

But yeah, he had no big role. ..

[Ielenia]

DKs drain life using Blood magic.

So what? I was talking about warlocks.

Yet we have Gazlowe utilizing Tinker abilities. Do we have any examples of Rivendare using Paladin abilities?

That means, at best, Gazlowe is an engineer. He is even mentioned as such several times. There is not a single mention of him being a "tinker". As for Baron Rivendare, no, we don't, because we have no in-game example of him while he was still alive.

I already have. You're the only person here who seems to require Blizzard to tell explicitly that Rivendare wasn't a paladin.

You haven't. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. By that same token, Gazlowe is not a tinker because he was never referred as such.

Until we find the next "exception" right?

Unless you learn how "exceptions to rules" work.

Thrall and Voljin would have been killed, and the Darkspear rebellion may have failed without his help.

But yeah, he had no big role. ..

Again, his only "big role" happened almost completely off-screen. The vast majority of the time you saw Chen he was lazying around and making/drinking beer.

[Teriz]

So what? I was talking about warlocks.

Yes, I was talking about Necros and DKs, you bought up Warlocks for no reason.

That means, at best, Gazlowe is an engineer. He is even mentioned as such several times. There is not a single mention of him being a "tinker". As for Baron Rivendare, no, we don't, because we have no in-game example of him while he was still alive.

Thank you for proving my point. Kind of hard to be a Paladin when you've never displayed Paladin abilities.

You haven't. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. By that same token, Gazlowe is not a tinker because he was never referred as such.

So to prove to you that Rivendare isn't a paladin, Blizzard would need to tell YOU that Rivendare isnt a Paladin? That's pretty dumb.

Unless you learn how "exceptions to rules" work.

When the rules are there are NO DKs who can raise skeletons, and we find a DK that can, your rule is meaningless and your argument is debunked.

Again, his only "big role" happened almost completely off-screen. The vast majority of the time you saw Chen he was lazying around and making/drinking beer.

Its lore though, so what does it matter.

[Ielenia]

Yes, I was talking about Necros and DKs, you bought up Warlocks for no reason.

Not for "no reason", but simply to demonstrate how "draining life" is not exclusively necromancy.

Thank you for proving my point. Kind of hard to be a Paladin when you've never displayed Paladin abilities.

I haven't "proved your point". We never saw or read about Baron Rivendare in action before his turning into a death knight. Hence, we cannot prove he was not a paladin, or that he was one. So stating either way, which is what you are doing, is a fallacy.

So to prove to you that Rivendare isn't a paladin, Blizzard would need to tell YOU that Rivendare isnt a Paladin? That's pretty dumb.

You're the one that is saying that Blizzard must explicitly tell you that he was a paladin four you to even consider the possibility that he could have been one.

When the rules are there are NO DKs who can raise skeletons, and we find a DK that can, your rule is meaningless and your argument is debunked.

No, because exceptions don't debunk perceived rules.

Its lore though, so what does it matter.

His role was basically negligible, though, unlike Illidan's and the Lich King's.

[Teriz]

Not for "no reason", but simply to demonstrate how "draining life" is not exclusively necromancy.

It is via blood magic.

I haven't "proved your point". We never saw or read about Baron Rivendare in action before his turning into a death knight. Hence, we cannot prove he was not a paladin, or that he was one. So stating either way, which is what you are doing, is a fallacy.

Actually there is history of Rivendare before he was a DK. Nothing says anything about him being a Paladin.

You're the one that is saying that Blizzard must explicitly tell you that he was a paladin four you to even consider the possibility that he could have been one.

No, that would be you. Multiple posters have already discussed this with you, yet you refuse to admit that you're wrong. This back and forth has once again shown that discussing anything with you is a waste of time.

[Trollokdamus]

Warden would still be a better option though.

SOOOOOOO much better.

Can any of you Warden fans please explain why you find this concept so interesting? Not looking to start an argument, just curious. To me, Wardens seem to be just melee fighters who are using a little bit of moon and shadow magic to me, which is not terribly exciting.

[Ielenia]

It is via blood magic.

We're going in circles here. I already said warlocks don't use blood magic.

Actually there is history of Rivendare before he was a DK. Nothing says anything about him being a Paladin.

There's nothing in his bio about his childhood. Does that mean Rivendare was never a child? So was he born as an adult? There's nothing about his parents, does that mean he just 'appeared', fully adult, into the world?

This is why I say that just because his bio doesn't say he's a paladin doesn't mean he's not one.

No, that would be you. Multiple posters have already discussed this with you, yet you refuse to admit that you're wrong. This back and forth has once again shown that discussing anything with you is a waste of time.

I'm not wrong. The ones who are wrong, here, are the ones that are stating, as fact, that Rivendare is not a paladin, dismissing all other possibilities simply because it goes against their narrative.

I'm simply saying he could have been one, since the lore of the first death knights state they came from paladins.

[jellmoo]

I'm not wrong. The ones who are wrong, here, are the ones that are stating, as fact, that Rivendare is not a paladin, dismissing all other possibilities simply because it goes against their narrative.

I'm simply saying he could have been one, since the lore of the first death knights state they came from paladins.

It's really not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of asking somebody to prove something that's impossible to prove. At this point we may as well say that Rivendare was a Tinker since it never explicitly states he wasn't a Tinker, and this therefore proves the existence of Tinkers as the next class. It's obviously a stupid conclusion, but since there's nothing that says he wasn't...

Do we know for 100% certainty that Rivendare wasn't a Paladin? Of course not. Can we reasonably come to the conclusion he wasn't because it's never mentioned that he was? Absolutely.

But honestly, the two of you have had the same sniping discussion in how many different threads now? Is there even anything left to discuss at this point? We'll have our answers in a little more than two weeks. You are never convincing one another and it seems really silly to continue trying.

[therealbowser]

Or Bard!

Bard would make a great secondary profession. Playing music is not a great theme for a class (especially in a game that did away with any kind of support-style classes over a decade ago), but it would be fantastic to have for playing music in the open world!

[Jinpachi]

Remember, Tinkerer is the epitome of bad class choice for the next expansion. Shadowlands is appearing most likely right now.

Wrath - Theme was Undead. Death Knights are new class.
Mists - Theme was Panda. Monks were of that theme ("elevation").
Legion - Demons were king. Demon Hunters were matching that theme.

Assuming the next expansion is shadowlands (or related to dark/shadow), how would someone possibly connect Tinkerer to that theme? Unless we have some mechanically-themed expansion, I highly doubt we should get Tinkerer. And that's completely putting aside the facts that all ideas of Tinkerer have been astronomically flawed and have no basis for them. If we're throwing random ideas out there, I'd much prefer Bard as I think it would be hella fun to play, but again, that doesn't match any kind of theme we're approaching.

There is the chance Blizzard goes off-theme, but that would definitely be unexpected.

tinkers find a way to make portals to the shadowlands. would fit with the rest of the terrible writing in the game. They'll probably just make them a buff-bot like the illusionist in eq2, with turrets that dps and/or heal

[VinceVega]

I still can't get on board with tinkers... everywhere people talk about making Warcraft more fantasy again with less spaceships and stuff. An then you want basically eiter a drone flinging gnome or an Ironman Goblin... it is just so... out of place from every other class in the game.

[kaminaris]

I still can't get on board with tinkers... everywhere people talk about making Warcraft more fantasy again with less spaceships and stuff. An then you want basically eiter a drone flinging gnome or an Ironman Goblin... it is just so... out of place from every other class in the game.

Whuut? More fantasy means more aliens more races, more stuff. In case you didn't notice, WC3 was also tech based. We had tech since beginning.

[Teriz]

I still can't get on board with tinkers... everywhere people talk about making Warcraft more fantasy again with less spaceships and stuff. An then you want basically eiter a drone flinging gnome or an Ironman Goblin... it is just so... out of place from every other class in the game.

Would that mean that Gnomes and Goblins are also out of place?

Technology is very prevalent in Warcraft. I would argue that it's as prevalent as some forms of magic. Its defibrillator more prevalent than martial arts and demons, so It should have its own class.

[Watchers]

maybe they release 2 classes on next expansion? would be reeaaally really cool...

[VinceVega]

Whuut? More fantasy means more aliens more races, more stuff. In case you didn't notice, WC3 was also tech based. We had tech since beginning.

Would that mean that Gnomes and Goblins are also out of place?

Technology is very prevalent in Warcraft. I would argue that it's as prevalent as some forms of magic. Its defibrillator more prevalent than martial arts and demons, so It should have its own class.

Like i said: out of place with the classes not the world. The world has spaceships and whatnot. So meh. That is fucked up since BC^^. But they managed to brush it under the rug as needed. Why didn't we attack Dazaralor with spaceships?

You can ignore it. But the moment there are players running around in Battlesuits it is not so easy to ignore anymore. Why can't a Warrior use that suit? He can't build it ok. But why not use?

[Pigglix]

Idk my dude, maybe the same reason why cap america didnt asked tony stark a battle suit too?