new forsaken leader spoilers

[Maxilian]

To be fair, i don't disagree with a more "humane" forsaken, is just that, Calia have no real connection to them, this is one of those races that would benefit of a Council, just like they had when Sylvanas was AFK, but with more rooted ideologies, maybe even have some that differ, in this case we can still have those that follow Sylvanas and some of her teachings and those that don't.

The idea of the Horde and the Alliance being in peace is nice, but my fear is that, because of this, we won't see more of the Horde and the Alliance integrating with itself, i would really like to see the Gnomes and the Mechagnomes having a bigger impact in the Alliance, having the integration of the Void Elf and the Lightforged Draneai affect the Alliance somehow.

[Felixon]

That's why i want to see a redemption of Menethil in Calia. I know you and most of the people hate the "redemption" storylines but as for Lordaeron i wish they actually have Menethil ruler that doesn't follow the bad steps of her family.

I'm not a fan of Sylvanas, but what does Calia even know about being a forsaken? She was brought back to life in a different manner - she was revived by the Naaru, not by the hands of the Scourge. She was not turned against her family members,friends. I suppose,that she even has a different mindset - way more human than the ones of the forsaken. She hasn't been through the same shit as the other forsaken - so,how can such an invidual lead the race she knows nothing about? How long time is she forsaken - a year or less? And then she says,that she understands the forsaken...

[Melusine]

Yep, Sylvanas only knows the undead after being undead, she has no idea who were those people. She has literally no interest either.

This guy gets it...

[Skytotem]

Ooooh Nooooo, The Forsaken actually get to grow as a faction and have a new identity outside of its tyrannical ruler? The Horror!!

I don't care if its Voss or Calia, I just want to see the forsaken given a bloody chance to grow outside of the same leader whos been making them follow the same grotesque path since WC3.

What we're worried about is the "Cult of Sylvanas" just being replaced with a "Cult of Calia"

That and her aesthetic/thematic differences with all the rest of the forsaken might mean we never get to see the Forsaken put their alchemy and other stuff to better, more creative use that's not just stupid-evil.

[Verdugo]

And your ad Hominem is proof of far worse.

Worse than fucking Alliance player pretending he knows whats best for the Forsaken? Please...

[Shakana]

Elves do not come even close to the focus on humans, the forsaken had plenty of direction for 15 years you just had to do their quests and which told us what the forsaken are and calia is pretty much the antithesis to the race. Blizz made the mistake to put Sylvanas always on the forefront but the general people were never that different from her, heck many were even out for more blood as they sided with varimathras back in wotlk, or tried to emulate the scourge etc.

Excuse me if i don't actually mind with Calia leading them, because i'm already tired of the focus on Sylvanas and how hot she is and waifu babe.
I understand all your points concerning the forsaken but you're also failing to see that the forsaken only had one thing similar to Sylvanas that was sharing the fate that the lich king made them go through. Sylvanas after her last death has been acting around other interests. But she is still waifu.

I don't mind having redeemed undead and i also don't mind the original forsaken mindset, because many undead had a bad transition and some of them unpredictable had a crazy bad experience others had a more peaceful one, and others are just neutral, not all of the forsaken is likely, derek for example, he had standards himself, and he only didn't felt lost because baine took him home and he met Calia. But undeads that had nothing like this was struggling all their life after the undeath. They wanted revenge, they wanted to all to die, they were absolutely mad.

Both are acceptable. I just accept the fact that the rightful queen of Lordaeron is there. Doesn't mean i hate the original undead, or that they should not exist, because i love them too. And all their struggles make them interesting indeed. But god knows how relieved i am for Sylvanas to finally get the fuck away.

[TheImperios]

They should reclaim Lordaeron now!

[Verdugo]

Excuse me if i don't actually mind with Calia leading them, because i'm already tired of the focus on Sylvanas and how hot she is and waifu babe.

Oh you are one of THOSE. At least we know we cant take you seriously.

Infracted.

[Miseration]

Pussification of the forsake. rip

[Dudemanguy]

Excuse me if i don't actually mind with Calia leading them, because i'm already tired of the focus on Sylvanas and how hot she is and waifu babe.
I understand all your points concerning the forsaken but you're also failing to see that the forsaken only had one thing similar to Sylvanas that was sharing the fate that the lich king made them go through. Sylvanas after her last death has been acting around other interests. But she is still waifu.

Excuse me if I don't actually mind Sylvanas leading them, because I'm already tired of the focus on Calia and how hot she is and waifu babe. I understand all your points regarding the Forsaken but you're also failing to see that Calia had one thing similar to the Forsaken was that they were humans of Lordaeron. Calia before her death has no connections to the Forsaken. But she is still waifu.

[Combatbutler]

Seemed to me that the Forsaken slaughtered on the fields of Arathi, via THEIR queen, didn't share your sentiments.

Considering they were betrayed by a forsaken priest and slaughtered by other forsaken, outnumbering those on the fields by quite the margin I'd say you don't really have a point.

Everything you've stated here is of no consequence. Calia is not loved by the living. She is an enigma.... a question with no answer, concerning how she has come to be. Every day since the initial events of WC3, the loss of her father, and the knowledge of who was responsible (her own brother), the knowledge that the Forsaken were now suddenly, and inexplicably, in control of their own mind, and her not being able to do shit about any of that... until now.

Is that why she walks the streets of Kul'tiras not harassed and was greeted kindly when she was brought back from the dead.

When people start the game as an undead, they are not raised and immediately drafted into Sylvanas' unending army of pawns so they can die again at her whim.... they are offered a choice. Granted, their options are not great ones, and in some cases actually ARE to become Sylvanas' expendable pawns, before they were freed from the grip of the Lich King, they were none the wiser.

Don't try to misdirect all of this to Sylvanas, she is actually rather meaningless to this discussion. The forsaken were defined as a ruthless deceitful bunch.

I also know of several other individuals who became various undead, and didn't seem to be too affected by it. Kel'thuzad is likely the best example, and of course, can't forget about Arthas Menethil. Or Teron Gorefiend.

Are you seriously comparing extremely powerful high ranking scourge members with the rank and file fodder of the scourge?

Forsaken were humans once. Many of them seek to be humans through their deeds. Everything you stated is not Calia's vision for the forsaken. They are part of Azeroth. How they came to be, well, it's anyone's guess how it all happened, but it did happen. She's their best hope for her people to once again be treated as people rather than as monsters. Too bad not everyone has that vision for them.

Yes they were human once, they aren't anymore, they are undead and as such basically a race compromised mostly of sociopaths. They shouldn't crave approval

[Melusine]

The Menethils do not deserve such a chance after their screw up. Terenas doomed his kingdom, Arthas gleefully set it ablaze and Calia conveniently ignored any kind of responsibility, deciding to elope with a grunt and then ignoring the forsaken for well over a decade.

Terenas II chose to fight for his kingdom. I understand that. Running is not an answer in war unless you have a plan to regroup. Medivh did not offer a plan to regroup. Hard call without a crystal ball that sees the future what would happen.

Arthas, a death knight.... under the sway of the Lich King....bearing Frostmourne…. gleefully burned Lordaeron down, and later far worse.

So.... I'm curious. Exactly what was Calia's responsibility in all this? Did she tell Arthas to take up Frostmourne, no matter what the warning on the Dais said about the sword? Did she tell her father not to leave Lordaeron and flee to Kalimdor just as he was about to evacuate the city? Did she light the torches her brother was using to set the kingdom ablaze? Did she help create the undeath plague that started the scourge? Was she willfully delivering grain she knew was plagued? Did anyone one person, much less, Calia, have the ability to undo any of this from occurring? Did Calia's choice to elope with a grunt make these events occur? The answer to all of those things is NO.

It is not her fault. She wasn't able to do anything to change or stop these events from unfolding. If you're saying she is guilty by virtue of being a descendant, well I hope you're never held to the same standard. Her desire to help lead the forsaken has nothing to do with, and of right ought to have nothing to do with penance for her hand in what is now the Forsaken. She didn't have a hand in it. She has nothing to be sorry for, or take responsibility for.

[Super Dickmann]

All you really need to know about the people who support Calia is that virtually all of them didn't have a prior interest in the Forsaken or most often even the faction they're in and that their core arguments are either poor or completely disingenuous. "I'm tired of the Forsaken being a cult of Sylvanas, that's why I'm okay with their entire roster vanishing to be replaced by one that is a cult of a different Queen" or "Sylvanas is just waifu bait and that's why people like her, the real connoiseur respects this different undead Queen who has an even bigger pair of tits on her", etc. etc. It's not about them being one note, because the new version is even more one note and has zero dissent. It's not about complexity, as there's no complexity to be had - the drama that made characters like Zelling, Voss or even the goddamn Desolate Council run has been defused leaving them unconflicted clones.

The real reason people support Calia is because they prefer this new version of the undead over the old one and prefer humans with a skin condition and cosmetic difference with the living over the prior identity of the race. They can identify better with them. That's fine. There's nothing wrong in admitting that, but it'd save you a lot of trouble championing absolutely asinine arguments like the above.

[Combatbutler]

Both are acceptable. I just accept the fact that the rightful queen of Lordaeron is there. Doesn't mean i hate the original undead, or that they should not exist, because i love them too. And all their struggles make them interesting indeed. But god knows how relieved i am for Sylvanas to finally get the fuck away.

The rightful queen of Lordaeron is not forsaken , she does not fit the people she is set to lead. Calia is just narrative trash for the forsaken plain and simple, she is set to destroy the identity of the forsaken, they could have replaced Sylvanas with actual forsaken, like Lydon, Helcular or Belmont, but nope they had to go with the shiny non breathing human.

[Loveliest]

Oh no, the sky is falling! Identity ruined! Race dead!
This was set up with the novel before. Can anyone think what the Forsaken are and what their origins are? Who were they loyal to? How they viewed life? How some missed their families and wanted to reunite with them? How they're not all some mindless slaves. Why is everyone so dramatic.

[Combatbutler]

So.... I'm curious. Exactly what was Calia's responsibility in all this? Did she tell Arthas to take up Frostmourne, no matter what the warning on the Dais said about the sword? Did she tell her father not to leave Lordaeron and flee to Kalimdor just as he was about to evacuate the city? Did she light the torches her brother was using to set the kingdom ablaze? Did she help create the undeath plague that started the scourge? Was she willfully delivering grain she knew was plagued? Did anyone one person, much less, Calia, have the ability to undo any of this from occurring? Did Calia's choice to elope with a grunt make these events occur? The answer to all of those things is NO.

Her duty was to ensure a political marriage that would help the prosperity of Lordaeron, that was her burden. It wasn't fair but that is something that was expected of her as royalty and she threw all of these responsibilities to her people and her lineage into the wind to bang a guard, meaning she has a tendency to choose her own self interest over her people.

It is not her fault. She wasn't able to do anything to change or stop these events from unfolding. If you're saying she is guilty by virtue of being a descendant, well I hope you're never held to the same standard. Her desire to help lead the forsaken has nothing to do with, and of right ought to have nothing to do with penance for her hand in what is now the Forsaken. She didn't have a hand in it. She has nothing to be sorry for, or take responsibility for.

Oh not for the events, but for being selfish by ditching all her royal responsibilities to her kingdom to bang a guard.

[Skytotem]

Oh no, the sky is falling! Identity ruined! Race dead!
This was set up with the novel before. Can anyone think what the Forsaken are and what their origins are? Who were they loyal to? How they viewed life? How some missed their families and wanted to reunite with them? How they're not all some mindless slaves. Why is everyone so dramatic.

Because it changes the entire flavor of a faction that people have played for years, they don't want a leader very different from what they signed up for, and that might get rid of things they liked about the faction (Like their shadowpriests and such) especially when they might finally get out of Sylvanas shadow and stop being the stupid-evil 'scourge-lite' that they were before.

I wanna see them use SpookyAlchemy for good things not just boring plague. Calia might ruin all that.

[Combatbutler]

Oh no, the sky is falling! Identity ruined! Race dead!
This was set up with the novel before. Can anyone think what the Forsaken are and what their origins are? Who were they loyal to? How they viewed life? How some missed their families and wanted to reunite with them? How they're not all some mindless slaves. Why is everyone so dramatic.

Humans start to sacrifice babies in the next patch and start raping night elf refugees in the streets. This is basically what is done to the forsaken in reverse.

It is basically about consistency.

[Shakana]

The rightful queen of Lordaeron is not forsaken , she is does not fit the people she is set to lead. Calia is just narrative trash for the forsaken plain and simple, she is set to destroy the identity of the forsaken, they could have replaced Sylvanas with actual forsaken, like Lydon, Helcular or Belmont, but nope they had to go with the shiny non breathing human.

Lilian Voss tho is not the right either, yes she stands by the forsaken anytime of the day, but she is not the ruler type, she doesn't want to have that responsibility either. She will help them everytime they need but she doesn't want to have that on her back, she too struggles with a load of stuff and she even regrets doing some favors to Sylvanas. She is actually ashamed of some things.

I keep saying that i wanted to see Deathstalker Commander Belmont.



But because of the unification and all, and he was part of Gilneas attack and Darkshore, then it would be a problem, and tyrande would still want revenge even more, even with Sylvanas out of the picture, and Anduin trying to make peace with the horde, if he was the next leader there would have been more problems. I still think Tyrande will be mad for decades and want revenge. With or without Sylvanas or Calia leading them.

She hates the horde for what they did since they all participate in it. They all followed Sylvanas orders and she is not happy. So for that too, i wish forsaken still had a leader that understands war, what does Calia understand of war if something happens? Sure, having a council is just better they can give her some insight but still i think Belmont would be a proper better leader, than both Calia or Lilian Voss. I just accept Calia for what she is and Lilian i know well she doesn't want to lead but just help them.

[Rexosaurus]

Ewww. I'm glad that Sylvanas is gone, and that the Forsaken will have a chance to have their own identity going forward, but I was hoping that they weren't just gonna cram Calia down our throats. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best.