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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Honestly,

    If you have to tell your kids to remain calm and very cautious in regard to the police, the people who are out there to protect them... then I'd say there is a serious problem.

    Teenagers need to be calm and de-escalating in their presence to not get shot. That's sad.
    It's a good idea to remain calm and cautious with any armed person who has legal authority to kill you under certain conditions, irrespective of their level of training. Maybe you shouldn't have to, but it will always be wise.

  2. #142
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    It's a good idea to remain calm and cautious with any armed person who has legal authority to kill you under certain conditions, irrespective of their level of training. Maybe you shouldn't have to, but it will always be wise.
    Honestly, most of the interactions i had with the police - getting mugged, getting my flat flooded - i was in need of getting calmed, not the other way round.

    Imagine: I was mugged and blood was running down my whole face, and i have to try to calm myself before speaking to the police, because otherwise i risk getting shot at?

    If you think that is normal, the problem is maybe even bigger.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Honestly, most of the interactions i had with the police - getting mugged, getting my flat flooded - i was in need of getting calmed, not the other way round.

    Imagine: I was mugged and blood was running down my whole face, and i have to try to calm myself before speaking to the police, because otherwise i risk getting shot at?

    If you think that is normal, the problem is maybe even bigger.
    Think about it from another perspective. If you're a victim, you don't need to worry about much. We're not talking about not being frightened/discombobulated, we're talking about not getting aggressive. When the police came to my home after I was mugged, I didn't worry about it much either. When they pull me over however, it's a different story.

    Traffic stops are a good example, since they're dangerous for police. They have to be alert because there is a genuine risk of being shot, which means getting agitated or making foolishly risky decisions like moving your hands out of view too quickly can escalate what should be a bland situation. Not to say a minor error should cost someone their life, I fully agree that well trained police should be a source of calm, and support more/better training for police. Just saying that if you're not aware that there is a risk when you deal with an armed person, you're being naive.

    Anyway please don't take this to mean I support what happened in the incident at hand. It's a tragedy and the officer in question deserves punishment, and the system which produced him needs to be reformed.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    Said it might have been and it was more plausible than he was a racist itching to go out and kill a black person as soon as possible that I've been hearing. All we know now is the gun she had wasn't in play. We know he shot her. That's it. We have no motive at this time. We'll learn as the process moves on what happened. But this jump to racial motivation is premature unless you got information I don't.
    I'd make a very large wager that what happened, would have happened much differently if it was in a predominantly white area, rather than a predominantly black area.

    Her owning a gun is irrelevant as was pointed out many times in this thread. She was in her own home and perfectly within her rights to defend herself with it.

    There was zero motive. Scared cop, not enough and/or poor training.

    I didn't say there was racial motivation as in "hey, there's a black person, im gonna kill her" ... but there's definitely a difference in how authority figures treat black people compared to white people. You deny there's racial disparity in the US?

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    Hopefully he gets atleast 10-20 years for this shit.
    From the video it clearly shows him jumping the gun and shooting way to quick.
    He should get more, simply because he failed basic requirements as a police officer, I believe they have to identify themselves when they talk try to arrest people. And clearly that didn't happen when he shot. From the little bit of video that I have seen he didn't. Hell, he didn't even give her enough time to put her hands up when he asked for it. This is exactly what happened when Tamir Rice was murdered, but the cop there wasn't prosecuted. Which was bullshit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    That is honestly disgusting. Both parts.

    I thought 28 months was a bit little, but how you guys can even consider feeling safe when the police have just 10 weeks of training before being sent out on the street, armed, with people saying stuff like that to them during training is.. Something I don't understand.
    I wish we had training for cops like wherever you are from. You are lucky TBH. But I am also guessing you don't have a lot of open killings by cops there.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    I wish we had training for cops like wherever you are from. You are lucky TBH. But I am also guessing you don't have a lot of open killings by cops there.
    Googled it, and it was hard to find the last time police killed ANYONE. Over the last 3 months we've had 3 shootings involving the police, but no one died in any one them.

    It's fairly nice living in a country where I don't have to be in constant fear that I'll get shot by armed people with little or no training.
    Might also help that guns are basically unheard of, so even if they were as untrained as the US counterparts, they wouldn't have to fear guns around every corner.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Think about it from another perspective. If you're a victim, you don't need to worry about much. We're not talking about not being frightened/discombobulated, we're talking about not getting aggressive. When the police came to my home after I was mugged, I didn't worry about it much either. When they pull me over however, it's a different story.

    Traffic stops are a good example, since they're dangerous for police. They have to be alert because there is a genuine risk of being shot, which means getting agitated or making foolishly risky decisions like moving your hands out of view too quickly can escalate what should be a bland situation. Not to say a minor error should cost someone their life, I fully agree that well trained police should be a source of calm, and support more/better training for police. Just saying that if you're not aware that there is a risk when you deal with an armed person, you're being naive.

    Anyway please don't take this to mean I support what happened in the incident at hand. It's a tragedy and the officer in question deserves punishment, and the system which produced him needs to be reformed.
    The woman who was shut WAS THE VICTIM.

    Se clearly had a lot to worry about.

  8. #148
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    As he should be. In this case, the evidence is clear he is guilty of reckless homicide. Murder.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Honestly,

    If you have to tell your kids to remain calm and very cautious in regard to the police, the people who are out there to protect them... then I'd say there is a serious problem.

    Teenagers need to be calm and de-escalating in their presence to not get shot. That's sad.
    But they are not out there to protect anyone. Their job is to enforce the law as per a Supreme Court ruling. Winter Blossom's advice for her children is a smart one.
    " America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
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    The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
    – George Washington.

  9. #149
    Not sure if mentioned, but the officer is being charged with murder.

    Good
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  10. #150
    The Unstoppable Force zenkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Not sure if mentioned, but the officer is being charged with murder.

    Good
    Yup, it's even quoted in the post above yours.

  11. #151
    Police are only bad if its the FBI investigating russians, then the police are corrupt, but if they murder people its completely fine

  12. #152
    Imagine being so bad at your job that you literally take out your gun and fire at the first shadow of a human being you see. No ducking down and asking to identify yourself, no calling out to see if its an intruder or the lady herself.

    Just, insta BLAP BLAP, like a fucking gang banger.
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  13. #153
    The Unstoppable Force zenkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    Police are only bad if its the FBI investigating russians, then the police are corrupt, but if they murder people its completely fine
    Not only was this post devoid of facts and nonsensical but it's also grossly wrong to think the FBI and Police are the same thing.

  14. #154
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    As he should be. In this case, the evidence is clear he is guilty of reckless homicide. Murder.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But they are not out there to protect anyone. Their job is to enforce the law as per a Supreme Court ruling. Winter Blossom's advice for her children is a smart one.
    I'm not arguing against the advice. It's good advice for the US. At the same time i think it's sad that advice of this kind has to be given.

    Maybe a mentality thing about power and state enforcement. As in my country the job of the police is very much to protect the population. They are not government goons.

    To clarify: I'm not thinking the institution itself is a problem, but the training and the corps mentality. They longer this runs unimpeded, the worse it will get, because by now the police seems to be attractive for people with power fantasies, as for the longest time they seem to get away with it.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    ...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house.
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    Castle Doctrine and no identifying as the police means the victim was justified to open fire, not the other way around.
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  17. #157
    The Unstoppable Force zenkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    If you're sneaking around someones house at night and don't announce you are police any rational person with a gun would be armed if they saw someone lurking outside their window. On top of that he never gave the person a chance to putt heir hands up. I bet he is one of those assholes who signals a lane change during a lane change and not before.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    So you're justified in shooting someone in their own home where they are keeping a legal firearm that they are using because there are suspicious people sneaking around outside who didn't identify themselves as police?

    'kay

  19. #159
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    You'd be wrong. The police hadn't announced themselves, so as far as the victim could be concerned, there were strange people sneaking around in the backyard, peeking into windows and vehicles. Every reason for her to assume they're criminals casing the place, and to arm herself against a potential home invasion.

    She had every right to arm herself.

    Worse, in Texas they have Castle Doctrine, so she should have pre-emptively shot the officers. It would have saved her life, and she'd have been in the legal right to do so, per Castle Doctrine.

    The reason some of us get so angry about this shit isn't because "yeah, dead cops", it's because cops like this have continuously demonstrated that the police are the enemy of the people, and this provides reasonable grounds for defending yourself from the threat they inherently pose to you. Better to take the shot and survive to stand trial than to let yourself be murdered, as she ended up doing. Cops acting like this, and departments defending them, and people doing the whole "the police have no duty to protect" thing, this all translates to "cops are your enemy, treat them accordingly". And that makes things far more dangerous for police officers.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Quote from your source: "...Officers entered the house and located an individual and a firearm..."

    If someone aimed a gun at me through an open window I'd call that justification.
    Fort Worth police have said they found a firearm inside the house, although it wasn't clear whether Jefferson was near the gun when she was shot. Merritt said it was legally owned and she had a license to carry.

    The Fort Worth Police Department quickly released bodycam footage from the shooting. The video did not include the interior of the house, except to show a blurry image of the gun officers found after the shooting. Lt. Brandon O'Neil declined to answer questions about why police released the images of the gun; in her open letter Monday, Price called the gun "irrelevant."
    Article

    She was in her own home, she had a license for the gun, and the gun was legally owned. Police parked away from the house, did not announce their presence, and crept around her house like thieves ... they were called for a welfare check on a non-emergency police line, as in not a 911 call.

    Cops had zero justification for murdering her.

    Like @Endus said, better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6 ... at least in this case.
    Last edited by dubious_doomhammer; 2019-10-15 at 02:39 PM.

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