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  1. #161
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubious_doomhammer View Post
    Article

    She was in her own home, she had a license for the gun, and the gun was legally owned. Police parked away from the house, did not announce their presence, and crept around her house like thieves ... they were called for a welfare check on a non-emergency police line, as in not a 911 call.

    Cops had zero justification for murdering her.

    Like @Endus said, better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6 ... at least in this case.
    Also, let's consider the 2nd Amendment. It isn't the right to own arms. It's the right to bear arms. Carry them; have them on your person. If having a gun on you becomes grounds for summary execution by chickenshit cowardly cop, then that's an infringement of your 2nd Amendment rights, over and above the murder part.

    I don't personally agree with the broad strokes of the 2nd Amendment, but its existence has to mean that a police officer cannot consider someone being armed as a threat to that officer. They have the legal right to arm themselves. If you're sneaking around without announcing yourself on their property, they have a right to draw that weapon and target you, for their own protection. This cannot constitute grounds for an officer to begin shooting. Not without attacking the 2nd Amendment rights of the citizen.

    As I said earlier in the thread, it doesn't matter if she was armed and had her gun aimed at the officer. It's still murder. She had the legal right to do so, per Castle Doctrine. If she'd be within her legal rights there, you can't argue that the officer was in any way entitled to shoot her.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    ...you can't argue that the officer was in any way entitled to shoot her.
    It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I'm not defending the officer's actions.
    Yes you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.
    So you're justifying not only murder, but the guy completely failing as a police officer too. Please never ever ever become a police officer, or join any other profession in which you deal with the lives of other people. America needs less people that have the same decision making skills as you and the officer that is the subject of this thread in positions like being a cop.

  4. #164
    Understanding is not the same as condoning my friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.
    If you're conducting a welfare check on a residence, wouldn't it be standard procedure to make your presence known to the occupants of the establishment, rather than creeping around like a burglar at 2AM? There actually isn't any justification here at all.
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.
    Don't we have a quote from the police saying he said hands up, and fired basically simultaneously.

    Stop fucking defending or justifying this monster. The officer deserves everything coming his way and then some. If you can understand his point of view, you can understand he was a power tripping moron.

  7. #167
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    It's a tragedy and the entire situation is suspect. However, when the OP says, "...I don't see how it could justify shooting someone through a window at their own house..." I was merely stating that I could see the justification. If an officer tells you to put your hands up while you are aiming a firearm at them and they shoot... yeah I can't say I'm surprised. I'm not defending the officer's actions. I can merely put myself in the situation and understand how the officer reacted.
    You are defending them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Understanding is not the same as condoning my friend.
    You're saying it was a reasonable response. That's "condoning".

    "Understanding" would involve acknowledging that the officer was a poorly-trained, cowardly piece of shit, all of which contributed to him choosing to murder someone. It doesn't present his actions as reasonable or justifiable, it identifies the failures of character that led to him choosing to murder someone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Don't we have a quote from the police saying he said hands up, and fired basically simultaneously.
    We have the body camera footage; he shot about 0.5 second after telling her to put her hands up. She didn't have time to react to anything he'd said before he shot her dead. Which is probably why the charges came down so quickly in this instance; there's no gray area.

  8. #168
    Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.
    Honestly I've already seen the facebook posts from black people I know saying, so not call a wellfare check. Call friends, call family, or get neighbors together to check. But don't call the cops.

    And frankly...who can blame them.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.
    Or common sense.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Or common sense.
    Asking for that leaves too much to chance.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The woman who was shut WAS THE VICTIM.

    Se clearly had a lot to worry about.
    I know there was a lot to read here, but next time try getting to the end.

    I'll make it easy.

    Anyway please don't take this to mean I support what happened in the incident at hand. It's a tragedy and the officer in question deserves punishment, and the system which produced him needs to be reformed.
    If you're referencing a scenario in which you're dealing with the police as a victim of a crime... you must not understand the context of the conversation we were having. There is nothing this woman could have possibly done differently, she had no idea she was dealing with the police.
    Last edited by Zaktar; 2019-10-15 at 06:06 PM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.
    or maybe just ring the doorbell and announce yourself as police?

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    I know there was a lot to read here, but next time try getting to the end.

    I'll make it easy.



    If you're referencing a scenario in which you're dealing with the police as a victim of a crime... you must not understand the context of the conversation we were having. There is nothing this woman could have possibly done differently, she had no idea she was dealing with the police.
    Precisely, which means she was the victims... meaning sometimes, victims of crimes do have plenty cause to worry about the police.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Maybe they should approach homes with drones from now on so no one gets shot needlessly.
    Maybe, not murdering people in their own homes would be a better call.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  15. #175
    Immortal Beazy's Avatar
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    I heard on the news earlier that this guy was on his way to being fired because of 3 or 4 "improper use of force" incidents in the past year or so.

    Sounds like a shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy. He committed a crime with a firearm, which in the City of Ft.Worth means he gets the maximum sentence allowed, outside of the judges discretion.

    Word to the wise kids, dont have a gun on you and commit ANY crime in FtWorth, Waco, or any other eastern TX city reall, or you're going to have a bad time in Huntsville. Also remember, there is no AC in the Huntsville prison.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    or maybe just ring the doorbell and announce yourself as police?
    People still end up getting shot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post


    Maybe, not murdering people in their own homes would be a better call.
    Well that's the goal. Just have to figure out how to get there.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Well that's the goal. Just have to figure out how to get there.
    Properly train your police.

    Like, from what others have said in this thread, it's <6 months training. How that is acceptable is beyond me, considering the amount of situations they're supposed to be able to handle

  18. #178
    Just saw this article - more details. Not sure if posted yet

    Link: https://news.yahoo.com/texas-woman-s...175635837.html
    Reuters) - A Texas woman was shot dead by a Fort Worth police officer through the window of her home after she heard noises outside late at night and picked up her handgun, the officer's arrest warrant showed on Tuesday.

    Atatiana Jefferson, 28, was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew around 2:30 am on Saturday when she heard noises in her backyard, according to the warrant for former Fort Worth Police Officer Dean Aaron's arrest for alleged murder.

    The noises were Dean and his partner creeping around the back of her home after they were called to investigate why her front door was open.

    Dean resigned on Monday before he was fired for breaching a string of police policies in shooting Jefferson dead with a single shot, according to Fort Worth Police Chief Ed Kraus.

    Jefferson's death brought outraged calls for an investigation into Fort Worth Police, whose officers are accused by her family's lawyer, Lee Merritt, of fatally shooting seven people in under six months.

    "She heard noises coming from outside, and she took her handgun from her purse," Jefferson's nephew told police, according to the warrant. His name was redacted from the warrant.

    "Jefferson raised her handgun, pointed it toward the window, then Jefferson was shot and fell to the ground," the warrant said.

    Dean's partner, identified as Officer Darch, said she could see Jefferson when Dean shot her.

    "She could only see Jefferson's face through the window when Officer Dean discharged his weapon," the warrant said.

    The officers did not knock on the front door of the home or announce they were police before Dean fired his weapon, according to Kraus.

    "It makes sense she would have a gun if she felt threatened or if there was someone in the backyard," Kraus said, ending a press conference after eight minutes as he grew emotional talking about the impact of the killing on police morale.

    Fort Worth has called in an independent panel of experts to evaluate the police department after the shooting.

    Jefferson was killed the same month another former Texas police officer, Amber Guyger, was convicted of murdering Botham Jean, a black man, as he sat in his home eating ice cream.

    Jefferson's family has called for the swift prosecution of Dean, who was arrested on Monday and posted bond overnight.
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  19. #179
    Over 9000! Freighter's Avatar
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    Don't you have the death penalty for people just like this guy?

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    Don't you have the death penalty for people just like this guy?
    For police who kill individuals due to their own errors? No. Typically said Officer is fired, and rehired by another police department a few years later. It's very rare if they serve any jail time.

    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

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