What if Blizzard means "breaks the cycle" in the WORST POSSIBLE WAY?

[Katchii]

I really liked the questing and overall story of WoD, but after playing through it on 1 Horde character and 1 Alliance character, I just didn't care about it at all aside from doing each of the raids on LFR difficulty once to see it. BfA is about the same.

Legion, WotLK and MoP are my favorites, but Cata is up there too. I played the hell out of all of them throughout the entire expansion lifespan.

TBC was cool, but it just didn't have the same oomph as the others to me. I played it a lot though, mainly because I had to, to keep current with anything and everything still took forever just like it did in Vanilla.

I wouldn't say any of them were "bad," but there were definitely some that were just more fun for me than others.

[kaminaris]

You like Titanforging that kills the incentive for progress?

It DOESN'T kill anything. Gear is just a tool, not end goal. The only incentive for progress I have is the challenge itself.

You see, it's quite counterintuitive, yet the system allows players to access the gear they should never be able to obtain.

So what? Are you jealous that some dude got one better item than you do? It won't allow random joe from LFR to kill mythic boss. Skill is what matters.

The upgrade is neither dependent on your skills or time-commitment - it's just a pure luck.

Like it always was, havent seen procced arcanocrystal for half a year and guildmate got max ilvl titanforged first week. Similarly in mop, I waited couple of months to get a damn assurance of consequence. But killed boss regardless of it.

It's funny you like today's iteration of Titanforging, while it's probably the worst one in WoW's lifespan. Look at the time, when it has been fully introduced into the game. In Siege of Orgrimmar the items had a chance to get a Warforge - a bonus that changed probably little to nothing, yet was something you smiled upon. Look even futher - thanks to your time commitment, you were able to upgrade the gear for YOURSELF eliminating the randomness and shifting the decision over you.

Couldn't give a single damn about all this. It's a BONUS, not even remotely required to clear all Heroic (back then heroic was hardest difficulty) / Mythic raid. At the very least I have non-zero incentive to run raid again. And if you played at that level, you would know that titanforging for mythic raid practically doesn't exist (cause base is minus 10 ilvl from max ilvl).

You call legendary bad because of RNG, and so do I. But Titanforging is the same problem,

Nope not even remotely close. Titanforged 455 vs 445 ilvl is maximum of 0.5% upgrade - and we have to assume its not cape/wrist. Having bis leggo vs having shit one (especially at beginning) was 10% difference. AND you usually got one leggo per month, AND remember about leggo soft cap of 4. It was so fucking bad, people rolled another alt if they were unlucky with leggos.

People have no fucking clue what are they talking about because basic math is too hard.

although I do not hunt for a specific item to upgrade for like 50 item level, some people will always have adventage over others thanks to their pure luck. Of course, you can adapt it to the entire drop system, on normal items too which are bound to drop rates, but a serious person would instatnly detect the problem.

Detect a problem? Did you read what you wrote? If someone gets full titanforged gear he must have spent tremendous amount of time to get them all - he deserves it. One item doesn't to literally anything. Again, basic math + probability.

Funny, that Titanforging is defended usually, if not only by the players who lack skills or have no time to play so they would love to enjoy powerful time without commitment.

You must be completely insane, defending titanforging comes from people who understands basic math and theory of probability. There is no fukken way to get powerful gear without time commitment, with or without TF.

I have literally no idea what changed in mythic+ since Legion? I personally don't like it, but it's just due the fact I think is a reverse concept of Challenges Mode which were cool.

Then why are you even trying speak on topic you have no idea?

I mean, your comment is so biased it's even hard to read. World Quests didn't change whatsoever, it's still the same stupid system, which people think is thousand times better than daily quests. Funny, because all you need to do for the WQ is just fly into the area, join a random group, AFK, and leave, while in daily quests it at least required some effort to go for the quest and do the task, which in many cases were something more than kill X mobs and get you epic titanforged ring at the item level of normal raid gear.

Oh yes world quest DID change. I don't have to do them at all because there is no damn legendary from emissary chests.
And no you cannot get titanforged gear from WQ that rivals mythic gear, not even close. You would need to do insane amount of WQ to get upgrade from heroic gear and never rival average mythic raider.

WQ rewards 370 base + 60TF = 430ivl, chance of that happening 1:50000, amount of WQ you need to do to get a single damn 430 item: 50000, even with INSANE luck, at best it would be 10000. Not to mention having full 430 gear from WQ.

https://www.wowhead.com/titanforged-...-reward-system

It's weird that expansion that introduced these systems was absolutely garbage, while the follow up expansion that introduced two WORST features ever (Warfronts, Island Expeditions) is admired by you. The improvement barely exists. In Legion you had 6 zones to play, here we have 3 to level up. I thought the War Campaign would be worth it to be limited to 3 zones. It wasn't. Look how much material hss been wasted by that stupid idea to split Alliance and Horde.

Because they are not garbage, garbage was legiondary system. Titanforging is ok, at least now that its capped at 60 ilvl and chances are way lower than in legion. Warfronts are Islands are completely optional. And I do like islands as a change of pace.

Although I hate storytelling in WoW since WoD, BfA is truly an icing on the cake here. It's just so terrible I can't stop laughing when I read about another inconsistency. The fact that Sylvanas literally is still something we don't know is a great indicator of how character development went this expansion. We were told to explore her character and understand her motives througout the expansion, but it seems like the idea has been shifted to another expansion. I want to vomit whenever I hear any character saying: "For Azeroth!" - I can't think of more cheesy text.

Story was never good.

Truly, it's BfA that's garbage. Expansion after expansion Blizzard is giving players more rewards for free. The incentives have been killed absolutely. The single fact for getting OVERPOWERED reward for doing Warfront is a proof for that this system is wrong.

Whatever, there are thousands of things that went the wrong way.

No, you need to go back to school and learn basic math. You won't be powerful running any content except for Mythic raids or massive amount of M+ (and maybe high rating pvp), period. Legion system was shit because your performance was dependent of pure luck + farming AP. BfA has this properly done.

[GreenJesus]

Yeah, true. Such a pity that WoD had a HUGE potential to be one of the best expansions, but they murdered it terribly. The story became flat as hell, the features were reduced entirely, half of the content was deleted leaving the expansion in a point, where they decided to end this madness and get asap to the last patch

Faralon, Auchindoun raid, an Ogre continent, Doomhammer being a peon... what a pity.

And don't forget about the capital cities... instead we got Trashran.

[Soulwind]

... nnnnNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Blizzard, you BASTARDS!

If it makes you feel better, I found it funny.

[Nefastus]

Everything post Wrath is an abomination. I know TBC had awful lore but at least introduced some new stuff and the game was still new. Cata and everything else were just a complete disaster. The only expac I was tempted into trying was Legion, the premise looked cool. I bet it was cool using itens such as Ashbringer, Doomhammer and the reforged Frostmourne.

When it comes to the story/lore TBC and cataclysm are easily the worst offenders. No matter what people say about BfA it doesnt even close to screwing up the lore or retconning it as bad as the other 2.

I think WoD had was actually an interesting idea but I read the executing was bad.

[Lazuli]

Not even close though. Artifact abilities and powers gave much more towards game play than azerite powers that mainly only passively amplify certain abilities. Legendary items made certain abilities more fun to use. Not having every single freakin ability on the GCD was MUCH better than how it is in BfA. Faster paced game play is so much more welcomed than the mess now. Feels horrible to pop major CDs and have to wait a ton of time just to start using damaging abilities.

Combat felt slightly better without gcd on major CD but it was still trash. Are you forgetting ret,sub,combat,surv,demo, all destroyed in legion? You are in denial if you think artifacts were better than azerite. Its LITERALLY THE SAME THING now. Sure there was a lot less in the beginning, but in current patch especially it is quite the carbon copy. And maxing out artifact wasn't fast at until like mid-xpac so it felt very similar.

But that's a typical WoW trope, make you feel dogshit useless and weak in the beginning of an xpac only to buff you later.

[Notdev]

I used to buy into this because I agree with most of the ratings but then I remembered that I disliked Legion and took the only break from the game I've ever taken since late BC because my guild fell apart. BFA sucks too but I'm still playing because my guild reformed and I still enjoy raiding with them a decent amount. Although I can agree that general public opinion does follow that pattern.

[Firefall]

Well, it added updated PC models, it added the updated Garrison architecture (which is now in many new zones and probably going to be the basis for the World Revamp in 9.0). .

You have good points here, and I still loved WoD, it is just my least favorite. A least favorite of a favorite game is still a beloved game, haha! And another fair point: Not sure which meaning of "architecture" you meant here, but the tech advancements in WoD were pretty massive to be fair. It is the expansion that made the game into the highly responsive version we have today, adding faster server pings and better tech for knowing where players, objects, enemies and AoEs are. So that was pretty massive for the future. The expansion just didn't grip me like many others did. I'd put most of that into professions and the garrisons making it so I just didn't see other players all that often outside of occasional trips to Warspear. And while Tanann Jungle was good content, it was only at the end of an expansion with very little to do in the world before that and couldn't survive the content draught.

[Vorality]

Combat felt slightly better without gcd on major CD but it was still trash. Are you forgetting ret,sub,combat,surv,demo, all destroyed in legion? You are in denial if you think artifacts were better than azerite. Its LITERALLY THE SAME THING now. Sure there was a lot less in the beginning, but in current patch especially it is quite the carbon copy. And maxing out artifact wasn't fast at until like mid-xpac so it felt very similar.

But that's a typical WoW trope, make you feel dogshit useless and weak in the beginning of an xpac only to buff you later.

Felt like trash compared to what? It's all subjective, of course, but Legion was in a good place for class game play. Ret, sub, and combat were all extremely fun for me. I much preferred MoP/WoD survival and demo, though.

I'm not in denial with the artifacts at all. Azerite gear is horrible. Takes away 3 of your slots, where we had tier before that changed game play slightly from patch to patch, which was better imo. The lottery system of trying to get your BiS traits every time the ilvl increases is mind numbing. And you can't tell me that practically every single artifact ability didn't make the game play for most classes more enjoyable. Ret, UH/Frost DK, Feral/Balance, all mage specs, Spriest, Enh/Ele, Fury....all vastly changed how good they felt to play...and now in BFA...most of these choices are through talents, which we have to give up for the previous talent choices we had in Legion.

I really implore you to go back and really look at the artifact traits and how much we received from them. It is NOTHING like receiving the traits from our azerite pieces - not even close. I'll just list a few that changed the way some classes felt in a better way.

Freezing Rain - Frozen Orb makes Blizzard instant cast.
Frozen Veins - Frostbolt critical strikes reduce the remaining cooldown on Icy Veins by 0.5 secs.
Call to the Void: Mind Flay has a chance to spawn a Void Tentacle that channels Mind Flay at your target for 10 sec.
Lash of Insanity: Void Tendrils summoned by Call to the Void generate 3 Insanity for you when they deal damage with Mind Flay.
Thrive in the Shadows: Dispersion heals you for 50% of your maximum health over its duration.
Elementalist: Reduces cooldown of Fire Elemental by 2 seconds every time Lava Burst is cast.
Lashing Flames: Your Flametongue damage causes the target to take 2% increased damage from your next Lava Lash. This effect stacks up to 99.

This is just a few...

Finally, getting stronger throughout the game play is normal in every mmorpg. It doesn't feel good to be strong in the beginning of an xpac and not get stronger towards the end...

[Lazuli]

Felt like trash compared to what? It's all subjective, of course, but Legion was in a good place for class game play. Ret, sub, and combat were all extremely fun for me. I much preferred MoP/WoD survival and demo, though.

I'm not in denial with the artifacts at all. Azerite gear is horrible. Takes away 3 of your slots, where we had tier before that changed game play slightly from patch to patch, which was better imo. The lottery system of trying to get your BiS traits every time the ilvl increases is mind numbing. And you can't tell me that practically every single artifact ability didn't make the game play for most classes more enjoyable. Ret, UH/Frost DK, Feral/Balance, all mage specs, Spriest, Enh/Ele, Fury....all vastly changed how good they felt to play...and now in BFA...most of these choices are through talents, which we have to give up for the previous talent choices we had in Legion.

I really implore you to go back and really look at the artifact traits and how much we received from them. It is NOTHING like receiving the traits from our azerite pieces - not even close. I'll just list a few that changed the way some classes felt in a better way.

Freezing Rain - Frozen Orb makes Blizzard instant cast.
Frozen Veins - Frostbolt critical strikes reduce the remaining cooldown on Icy Veins by 0.5 secs.
Call to the Void: Mind Flay has a chance to spawn a Void Tentacle that channels Mind Flay at your target for 10 sec.
Lash of Insanity: Void Tendrils summoned by Call to the Void generate 3 Insanity for you when they deal damage with Mind Flay.
Thrive in the Shadows: Dispersion heals you for 50% of your maximum health over its duration.
Elementalist: Reduces cooldown of Fire Elemental by 2 seconds every time Lava Burst is cast.
Lashing Flames: Your Flametongue damage causes the target to take 2% increased damage from your next Lava Lash. This effect stacks up to 99.

This is just a few...

Finally, getting stronger throughout the game play is normal in every mmorpg. It doesn't feel good to be strong in the beginning of an xpac and not get stronger towards the end...

Compared to anything post-wotlk and pre-legion. Ret used to be a midrange battlemage instead of wheelchair, combat felt much better with deep insight and no butt pirate theme (magic pistol while you're dual wielding wot m8 lol) and a really strong killing spree. Sub is atrocious, beyond horrible. 'Backstab' now does 0 dmg, in fact for many specs now your auto attacks hit as hard or harder as your fillers which looks and feels bad.

You have 2 builds on sub, one with near permanent shadowdance that does no burst damage which kinda defeats the purpose of the skill and one with previous xpac shadow dance damage but on a huge downtime and hitting like a literal wet noodle in between. Previously sub was effective both during and out of shadow dance windows, but Blizzard had to push this spec towards a braindead pve mindset to appease the dragonslayers which its pvp potential and fun in the process.
Not a single spec is allowed to be pvp focused, even though I was comfortably playing sub in pve sine cata.. just don't shadow step or fight bosses like in BWD magmaw. I also solo'd an entire mechanic in cata raid I can't remember the fight but was using feint to cheese the aoe dmg.

It used to be ok that specs were situational, but now they have to be available in literally every aspect of the game which makes them far less unique and really mundane. Rogue had 3 fucking dps specs. Not all of them have to do everything.

[Candy Cough]

AHHAHAHHAHHAHAH never in my days would I have thought that people would call Wotlk trash

[Zenfoldor]

Vanilla/Classic = Good
BC = Great
Wrath = Great
Cata = Meh
MOP = Great
WoD = Bad
Legion = Great
BFA = Bad
9.0 = ??(great?)

I think we're due for a great one myself. IMO, BFA is probably the worst one so far, mainly due to it being the first xpak that felt like a step backwards at launch.

[Vrinara]

This stuff is just a myth. I think people are over thinking stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Vanilla/Classic = Good
BC = Great
Wrath = Great
Cata = Meh
MOP = Great
WoD = Bad
Legion = Great
BFA = Bad
9.0 = ??(great?)

I think we're due for a great one myself. IMO, BFA is probably the worst one so far, mainly due to it being the first xpak that felt like a step backwards at launch.

I wouldn't say BFA is bad.. I'd say it's meh. Just my opinion of course. It's got some good.. but it's got a lot of bad.

[VinceVega]

Vanilla/Classic = meh
BC = Amazing
Wrath = Okish
Cata = Horrible
MOP = Great
WoD = Amazing/Bad.... really confusing for me^^
Legion = Meh
BFA = Okish
9.0 = No AP i hope so propably great again^^

[therealbowser]

I liked Cataclysm, Warlords of Draenor and Battle For Azeroth.

The question is, did you like them more than Wrath of the Lich King, Mists of Pandaria, and Legion?

Wrath of the Lich King being good.

My stars.

PS: This looks like bait.

[Zenfoldor]

This stuff is just a myth. I think people are over thinking stuff.

- - - Updated - - -



I wouldn't say BFA is bad.. I'd say it's meh. Just my opinion of course. It's got some good.. but it's got a lot of bad.

I think it depends on where in BFA you look. Just imo, the beginning of BFA when warfronts came out, was one of the worst/most depressing times of WoW. It felt like the xpak had launched unfinished and everything just felt bad, unrewarding, and boring. They made BFA a LOT better since then, but you've got to think those who quit during those relatively early days will remember BFA like that from now on.

However, I could also see a meh for BFA.

Same could be said about WoD. Raids were great, and the leveling content was some of my favorite, but at the end, there was just very little content. I remember the patch where you had to go down and manage boats, and that was my second lowest point in wow, lol.

On Cata, one of my favorite things ever in wow were those early ghostcrawler mythic dungeons. They were so hard and fun, lol. However, the xpak went down hill after those were nerfed, and never really got its legs under it.

Most of the other xpaks started and stayed strong. Overall the game has had relatively few slumps over the years, but I have a feeling that it isn't really "A Team or B Team" but more like bad ideas cause a panic with the devs to swap back to content types that they know are loved by the community and iterate on them. They try something, it works, they try something else it doesn't, they panic and really work hard to make sure the next thing will work. That type of thing. It's an ebb and flow imo.

[MoltenIceCream]

BC-best expansion
Wotlk-good
Cata-fine
MoP-ok
WoD-bad
Legion-bad
BFA-belongs in trash

[pewpmeiser]

I dunno, i feel like every expansion has had good stuff, and some okay stuff. Every expansion I would still consider awesome, as a whole. It's still warcraft! The greatest game on earth.

[arboachg]

I like how this meme skips TBC for the sake of having it's convenient pattern.

[Reaper0329]

Lots of people say WoD was bad, but don't give a good reason for why. What did you hate about it? Was it the time travel aspect? Was it how they portrayed characters compared to how you imagined them in your head? Was it how orc-focused it seemed? Are you just one of those people who really really really hated the garrisons? That kind of confused me because one of the major aspects of Warcraft has always been building your base. I thought the only really bad thing about WoD was that they tried to take away flight.

For me, it was that I felt like I had little to do outside of raiding. I think "raid or die" gets seriously misused, but it felt like WoD's gameplay loop was raid on main > raid on alt > level alt. At the time, I thought it woefully boring. I also didn't care for the time-travel theme, nor do I give half a damn about Orcish culture and society (Draenei kinda bore me too, with their one-dimensional goodness).

In retrospect, I infinitely prefer having too little of what I want to do available as opposed to BfA, wherein I have far too much stuff I don't want to do in order to remain relevant for the things I want to do.