Forgive and “not” forget.

[Artelia]

Well my little Alliance friends.

I can just say we don't want this peace either. Many of us just wanted smash Alliance skulls and now our little traitor Baine is somewhat leader of new Horde democracy.

[bulletnipz]

Horde and Alliance leadership really did die with Garrosh and Varian afterall.

[Tiwack]

Well there is a bigger evil around and what's a little war between friends? It's not peace, it's a ceasefire to get over things and deal with something else. What'd you expect? It's warcraft, not massacrecraft.

[RH92]

The winners were very kind to Germany after WW1, especially compared to what they did to France in 1870. Stop falling for this german/american propaganda that the reason Germans went full nazi was because of France. The treaty was never enforced btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNzD1p5C7TQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ81UefiiJc

I mean, let's not compare what Germans did afterwards, but your statement is wrong.

[Soulwind]

Alliance players who wanted peace got a war expansion in which their faction lost stuff with no consequences.
Alliance players who wanted war were forced to be the victim and forgive their agressors.
Horde players who wanted peace got forced into a villanous, submissive position.
Horde players who wanted war are now told only the mad banshee queen was responsible for it, and they must now relearn what honor is.

And anyone who played in MoP would have known this is what a faction war means in an MMO, and wouldn't have thought of making another expansion with the exact same story.

[Raisei]

I have a better idea. What the Alliance should actually do is split the Horde in two and put it under occupation, with one half going to the humans and the other to the night elves until a later reunification once other things are accomplished first. But only after moving all the people who belong to its component races back into the core Horde territories of Durotar and the Barrens. The Alliance should then have its citizens tour the blighted remains of Darkshore and the husk of Teldrassil and remind them that they did this by supporting Sylvanas. The higher leadership should all be put on trial and sent to the Underhold or executed because the jurors, who would be Alliance officials, wouldn't accept 'Sylvanas told me to' as an excuse. Afterwards they should integrate the Horde into their own military bloc, while keeping some number of troops there indefinitely and prevent rearmament, as well as focusing on reeducating this and future generations to always remember that they made the Burning of Teldrassil possible.

Okay, you did make me laugh in a good way this time. 9/10. Nice work.

Frankly though the idea of an occupation feels not entirely wrong. The Alliance is indeed getting hugely shafted here, told to forgive and forget AGAIN all the warcrimes and lives destroyed.
Sure it was on Sylvanas orders, no doubt, but Sylvanas alone could not have waged a war. Her power comes from the dumb masses of orcs, goblins, trolls and forsaken that have learned nothing from the past experience with Garrosh. All it needed is another genocidal psychopath to shout "For the Horde" and boom we got another war.

Far from forgiving the Horde members for their part in supporting Sylvanas I have to ask: Can we trust them not to follow the next psychopathic warmonger that steps up? Have they finally learned something? Anything? I am not sure and that worries me. Empirical evidence leads me to believe that the Horde either doesn't want to learn or is unable to as a result of being trapped in the cultural system of the Orcs.

(Which still confuses me. Why would highly educated and advanced societies like the Belfs and Nightborn start speaking in that savage orcish gibberish and adopt orcish customs... so weird) Anyway!

Maybe this new council works and we see a changed Horde, but chances aren't too high for that, so I really wonder if we could not at least have some Alliance representatives among the ruling council (no, Calia does NOT count)?

At least give us some reason to believe that Thrall and Baine got this...

[Super Dickmann]

Far from forgiving the Horde members for their part in supporting Sylvanas I have to ask: Can we trust them not to follow the next psychopathic warmonger that steps up? Have they finally learned something? Anything? I am not sure and that worries me. Empirical evidence leads me to believe that the Horde either doesn't want to learn or is unable to as a result of being trapped in the cultural system of the Orcs.

(Which still confuses me. Why would highly educated and advanced societies like the Belfs and Nightborn start speaking in that savage orcish gibberish and adopt orcish customs... so weird)

The less you think, the happier you'll be for it. The Horde simply does not hold together as having a unitary motive to follow a leader, be it like Sylvanas, Baine or what have you, because the Horde is, or rather was, heterogeneous. Races like the blood elves tried to leave earlier and they, along with the Forsaken and goblins, joined the Horde solely for the benefits attached and have never had much of anything in common with the Kalimdor races. In turn, the Kalimdor races as a bloc also are bound chiefly by bonds of friendship and shared shamanic and tribal customs, than other aspects of culture, since the militant and industrious stint of the orcs is a trait not shared by the tauren or trolls. Funnily enough, the only ones who do have something like Mak'gora are the nightborne.

Blizzard has taken the faction pride angle in a stupid, but unsurprisng angle by culturally homogenizing all parties, placing the 'Horde' or 'Alliance' identity ahead of the racial or even faith/class-based identity. While this has been on-going for a while with the Alliance, this wasn't actually the case in the Horde even back in Mists and especially in Cataclysm, where the internal conflict in the Horde was based around how despite being on the same side and fighting the same enemy, they had an in-built friction because of their fundamentally different natures and beliefs.

tl;dr: Garrosh's opposition was for different reasons tied to their identity and he had actual cultural reason to be followed regardless. Sylvanas is an interloper in that system and all her opposition oppose her for the same reasons because they've been made to have identical beliefs. Hence Lor'themar, who'd never spoken to Thrall and turned on both Garrosh and Sylvanas preemptively is ragging on about how he and his people always looked up to the Warchief with zero sarcasm.

On the Alliance-side it means everyone's an Anduinist except future raid bosses.

[Yoshingo]

man i cant believe leaders who have seen their people die for stupid, pointless, wars that drain their resources, morale, and numbers would be willing to stop fighting.

its truly shocking.

we should make ten more threads complaining about it.

Also I find it funny the people screaming that Tyrande is a villain are the only ones actually calling her a villain. Nobody in the actual story is. Shockingly its more nuanced than just, "PURPLE LADY MAD, SHE BAD NOW!"

[Super Dickmann]

we should make ten more threads complaining about it.

Also I find it funny the people screaming that Tyrande is a villain are the only ones actually calling her a villain. Nobody in the actual story is. Shockingly its more nuanced than just, "PURPLE LADY MAD, SHE BAD NOW!"

If you'd direct me to a character who opposed Anduin and didn't end up aligning with him on all relevant points later on or becoming a world baddie, I'd be glad to hear it, Necroxis. But since no such character exists, I'll instead say that I hope you join in me shilling for Tyrande next expansion if she keeps her current route against the Unifaction. It'll be a nice team-building exercise and we can both be sad when she either sucks on Shalamayne or coughs up her glaive for my DH.

[Wangming]

This is so fucking bad. At least it will end soon.

[Tartys]

“Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had FORGIVEN?”

So, we have to prepare to Putress 2.0? ^^;



and btw look who is neutral now:
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/11...298241/photo/1

[VladlTutushkin]

“Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had FORGIVEN?”

So, we have to prepare to Putress 2.0? ^^;



and btw look who is neutral now:
https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/11...298241/photo/1

I mean, Velen is also neutral and he is pro-Anduin stan.

- - - Updated - - -

This is so fucking bad. At least it will end soon.

For Alliance suffering never ends.

[Wangming]

For Alliance suffering never ends.

True, but BfA will. Soon we will know what 9.0 is gonna be about, get excited and have the beta kill our excitement. Good times.

[Devilyaki]

Good some sexy loving to be had now.

[thilicen]

So apparently in 8.3 Anduin hosts some kind of meeting in the Stormwind, main topic of which is “peace” with the Horde. And what do you know... Our little dear Shandris is there, talking of that oh so wonderful future with their new friends

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...01/unknown.png

“Rebuild”... Rebuild ashes? Rebuild the dead? Rebuild land that isnt yours anymore? Where will she “rebuild”?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...219_185600.jpg
You know its bad when Dark Iron Queen starts spewing things like that.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...219_190043.jpg
And when Falstadt also buys into this spiel...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...91/unknown.png
And of course no “peace” is complete without some of that fortune cookies “wisdom” of Velen.
Baine also appears, apparently as some kind of Horde ambassador but either has no text or just wasnt screenshotted.

Why do people work so damn hard to take things so literally? She obviously means the NE people / culture / presence. And with Tyrande leading them to Hyjal, they have a place to do it. This doesn't have to be as hard as you think.

[VladlTutushkin]

True, but BfA will. Soon we will know what 9.0 is gonna be about, get excited and have the beta kill our excitement. Good times.

I bet that difference between BfA and 9.0 will be like a difference between a wheel and a rack.

- - - Updated - - -

Why do people work so damn hard to take things so literally? She obviously means the NE people / culture / presence. And with Tyrande leading them to Hyjal, they have a place to do it. This doesn't have to be as hard as you think.

If they do not retake Ashenvale and Darkshore then they might as well not be night elfs anymore. They can be “gypsi elfs” or “ homeless’dorei”.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I didn’t think it was possible just to laugh that hard at a story, especially after watching game of thrones I thought I had reached peak hysterics with bran the broken.

[VladlTutushkin]

I didn’t think it was possible just to laugh that hard at a story, especially after watching game of thrones I thought I had reached peak hysterics with bran the broken.

And then people say that Alliance arent a whipping boy of Blizz. They forced us not to just forgive what Horde did but to say that we are just as bad and we are also sorry.

[Wangming]

I didn’t think it was possible just to laugh that hard at a story, especially after watching game of thrones I thought I had reached peak hysterics with bran the broken.

Baine the Broken. One can hope.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And then people say that Alliance arent a whipping boy of Blizz. They forced us not to just forgive what Horde did but to say that we are just as bad and we are also sorry.

It’s hard to decide who got shat on more this xpac. Is it Alliance who are reduced to peace loving Anduin sucking morons who are big meanies if they don’t agree with anduin? Or is it the Horde who is forced to watch an old orc with memory issues break down multiple times in cinematics until he proudly gets one shot by the only Horde character that wasn’t an Alliance suckup, and for that reason a big meanie?

- - - Updated - - -

Baine the Broken. One can hope.

I’d actually resub to watch Baine get shoved out a tower window.