[Spoilers] A plothole

[Piamonte]

If repurposing the reorigination device to only affect a specific place was so easy why didnt the Titans do that in the first place?? This way they could have killed every old god without hurting the planet. Problem solved.

[Aucald]

It's not the re-origination device that apparently kills N'Zoth, but instead the energies of the device channeled and lensed through the Heart of Azeroth, which didn't exist when the Titans touched down on Azeroth in its prehistory. This likely required an Azeroth that was more fully-formed and not under direct attack as it was then, one that had elected a Speaker to be able to act on its behalf.

[Piamonte]

It's not the re-origination device that apparently kills N'Zoth, but instead the energies of the device channeled and lensed through the Heart of Azeroth, which didn't exist when the Titans touched down on Azeroth in its prehistory. This likely required an Azeroth that was more fully-formed and not under direct attack as it was then, one that had elected a Speaker to be able to act on its behalf.

I dont think magni was necessary at all, you are making stuff up.

[Aucald]

I dont think magni was necessary at all, you are making stuff up.

"Making stuff up" implies what I said wasn't an attempt at speculation - which it is, hence the word "likely." It's not something we can know, really; but it's a theory that makes sense. There's no canon answer to your question, otherwise; beyond "we don't know."

[Ophenia]

I dont think magni was necessary at all, you are making stuff up.

I think he means the Forge of Re-Origination we'll use against N'zoth is boosted by Azeroth's power of whatever bullshit, which is enough to destroy N'zoth while the "simple" combined power of Nalak'sha and Re-Origination won't be enough to pull that out

That could explain it, but imo that's forgetting that even if Azeroth will be the strongest Titan, all the Pantheon with the power of the Seat of the Pantheon + pristine Re-Origination + Nalak'sha would have been probably a lot more powerful than Babyzeroth

My theory is that they'll pull the "dimensions" shenanigans. This probably couldn't work if N'zoth "hid" in Ny'alotha, but during the encounter, the veil is broken and N'zoth is physically, mentally, psychologically, voidically present there so we can kill him. Dunno, that seems to be hella stretched

Edit: Anyway, before calling anything a plothole, we'll need to wait for the real Ending Cinematic. He's probably not dead after this kamehameha.

[Aucald]

I think he means the Forge of Re-Origination we'll use against N'zoth is boosted by Azeroth's power of whatever bullshit, which is enough to destroy N'zoth while the "simple" combined power of Nalak'sha and Re-Origination won't be enough to pull that out

That could explain it, but imo that's forgetting that even if Azeroth will be the strongest Titan, all the Pantheon with the power of the Seat of the Pantheon + pristine Re-Origination + Nalak'sha would have been probably a lot more powerful than Babyzeroth

There's a couple ways you could approach it. When the Pantheon first arrived on Azeroth the Old Gods were dominant, and evidenced by Y'Shaarj they'd had sufficient time to dig themselves in such that dislodging them was a tremendous and dangerous undertaking. N'Zoth, by contrast, has just been recently freed from his prison and is contended with in short order - he hasn't had time to dig in, and thus can be neutralized without the same risk to Azeroth. But I still think having the active cooperation of the World-Soul itself is likely a big factor.

[chrisisvacant]

There's a couple ways you could approach it. When the Pantheon first arrived on Azeroth the Old Gods were dominant, and evidenced by Y'Shaarj they'd had sufficient time to dig themselves in such that dislodging them was a tremendous and dangerous undertaking. N'Zoth, by contrast, has just been recently freed from his prison and is contended with in short order - he hasn't had time to dig in, and thus can be neutralized without the same risk to Azeroth. But I still think having the active cooperation of the World-Soul itself is likely a big factor.

Well, isn't he already 'dug in'? They constructed the jails around them, I thought. So it should be like just taking the shackles off a person and now they are free.

Not disagreeing with the change in circumstances allowing for different approaches to killing them, but in his current form free of the prison he should be ready to go at full strength.

[Aucald]

Well, isn't he already 'dug in'? They constructed the jails around them, I thought. So it should be like just taking the shackles off a person and now they are free.

Not disagreeing with the change in circumstances allowing for different approaches to killing them, but in his current form free of the prison he should be ready to go at full strength.

If the Old Gods were imprisoned as-is, it would be difficult to hide their prisons as they'd be the city-sized abominations depicted in "Chronicle Vol. 1." It seems the armies of the Titanforged whittled away their mass substantially, paring them down into something a bit more manageable for imprisonment in installations like Ulduar. I'd also wager that after millennia of imprisonment N'Zoth is probably not yet at full power - that's part of what 8.3 seems to be all about, the Old God trying to re-insinuate itself back into Azeroth's systems by way of taking over via its "Visions" and infecting the world's fauna with madness.

[Piamonte]

My theory is that they'll pull the "dimensions" shenanigans. This probably couldn't work if N'zoth "hid" in Ny'alotha, but during the encounter, the veil is broken and N'zoth is physically, mentally, psychologically, voidically present there so we can kill him. Dunno, that seems to be hella stretched

Yes, this seems a logical explanation but if that is the case why didnt they do that with yshaarj, Cthun and yogg saron?? We have never heard of them hiding themselves in other dimensión.

[DeicideUH]

We don't even know the the reorigination kamehameha really kills N'Zoth.

What about waiting for the actual raid ending? I bet there's a cinematic after that cutscene. And I sure bet that Wrathion uses Xal'atath in the weakened N'Zoth.

[Shinrael]

If repurposing the reorigination device to only affect a specific place was so easy why didnt the Titans do that in the first place?? This way they could have killed every old god without hurting the planet. Problem solved.

And the people without vision just hurry to say bad writing/plot-hole without ever realizing that maybe, just maybe.... THAT is the point? We are dealing with the one-left Old God that has been plotting this moment for 10+ years of real life time (and 10 000+ years in-game time). Surely, we just nuke him with a lazor beam and call him bye bye? Surely, the "Gift of N'zoth" that I carry on my head for half a year now is just a pointless cosmetic thing, right?

[Shadochi]

Yes, this seems a logical explanation but if that is the case why didnt they do that with yshaarj, Cthun and yogg saron?? We have never heard of them hiding themselves in other dimensión.

Maybe they exist in both dimensions? And the only way to truly kill them without hurting Azeroth is by doing it in Nyalotha. And until now we had no way to enter it.

[Wrath of the Bolvar]

If repurposing the reorigination device to only affect a specific place was so easy why didnt the Titans do that in the first place?? This way they could have killed every old god without hurting the planet. Problem solved.

Because they couldn't kill the old gods, they were too intertwined with the planet. Killing them would have killed the planet as well.

[Piamonte]

Because they couldn't kill the old gods, they were too intertwined with the planet. Killing them would have killed the planet as well.

You dont get it, we have already killed two old gods and we didnt hurt azeroth, all that was needed was an army and the Titans had the titan forged, now blizzard is telling us that there was a way to cirgucally remove an Old God the same way you remove a tumor without hurting healthy tissue, why the titans didnt do that in the first place??

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe they exist in both dimensions? And the only way to truly kill them without hurting Azeroth is by doing it in Nyalotha. And until now we had no way to enter it.

Yes, i suppose, but it still a stretch because there have never been any mention of that until now with Nzoth and N'yalotha.

[Qualia]

You dont get it, we have already killed two old gods and we didnt hurt azeroth, all that was needed was an army and the Titans had the titan forged, now blizzard is telling us that there was a way to cirgucally remove an Old God the same way you remove a tumor without hurting healthy tissue, why the titans didnt do that in the first place??

We did hurt Azeroth by killing Yogg and C'Thun, though, just not as badly as Aman'thul did when he killed Y'Shaarj. We both have that Q&A section where they said two Old Gods' deaths caused the Cataclysm, and Chronicle 3 also stated that N'Zoth decided to put his plan with Deathwing into motion because the world was wounded / weakened over the course of the events in WoTLK (and the Dragon Aspects were consumed by their own struggles). It's entirely possible that with Azeroth being so heavily damaged after Y'Shaarj's death, the Titans and their Titanforged army just didn't want to risk hurting it any further.

Moreover, imprisoning the 3 Old Gods was a pretty good plan. It didn't work well because of circumstances, but it would have worked perfectly well if the Titans weren't killed by Sargeras in the same battle. There wasn't any need to find a way to remove the Old Gods right there and then.

[Qualia]

what I don’t get is why the titans didn’t just reoriginate after they learned they couldn’t kill the old gods without killing the planet

There wasn't any need to kill the Old Gods there and then (since the imprisonment plan was working well), and re-originating (even assuming it wouldn't hurt Azeroth at all, which might not be true) is only a last resort for them. The planet might survive reorigination process (again, this is a big "if", since Azeroth was terribly wounded back then), but every living beings on the planet would have been killed - the Titans don't want to do that unless they absolutely have to.

[Wrath of the Bolvar]

what I don’t get is why the titans didn’t just reoriginate after they learned they couldn’t kill the old gods without killing the planet

Reorigination would have killed the old gods. Killing the old gods would have resulted in killing the planet as well because the old gods were too deeply connected to the planet.

[Frozenbeef]

Didn't we destroy that during cataclysm?...

[Wrath of the Bolvar]

would it have killed azeroth outright, or just reset her development to the beginning?

It would have destroyed the planet.

[Piamonte]

We did hurt Azeroth by killing Yogg and C'Thun, though, just not as badly as Aman'thul did when he killed Y'Shaarj. We both have that Q&A section where they said two Old Gods' deaths caused the Cataclysm, and Chronicle 3 also stated that N'Zoth decided to put his plan with Deathwing into motion because the world was wounded / weakened over the course of the events in WoTLK (and the Dragon Aspects were consumed by their own struggles). It's entirely possible that with Azeroth being so heavily damaged after Y'Shaarj's death, the Titans and their Titanforged army just didn't want to risk hurting it any further.

Moreover, imprisoning the 3 Old Gods was a pretty good plan. It didn't work well because of circumstances, but it would have worked perfectly well if the Titans weren't killed by Sargeras in the same battle. There wasn't any need to find a way to remove the Old Gods right there and then.

That is just a dev talking out of his ass, if any is retconned lore, we know what caused the cataclysm and it wasnt yogg saron and Cthun dying, it was deathwing using his aspect powers and the breaking of the world pillar.

The titans tried to destroy the old gods right there and then but it backfired on them, if they could do it, they would do it and they certainly have the means for it.

The only reason i find plausible is that the Titans didnt want to risk hurting Azeroth anymore, but even then is hard to buy the idea that they simply didnt think about using the titanforged to beat the old gods to death or using the reorigination device in certain locations to cirgucally remove them.