Blizzard needs to EMBRACE flying...

[Krelivane]

No, the current system is just fine. In fact, there is no real benefit to having flying at all since most zones are designed with plenty of flight points nowadays.

So imagine if they embraced flying even further. Flying is such a big deal when looking at world navigation. The fact that it's 'just fine' means that it could be amazing!

[Shutupwalls]

Sorry I don't give a shit what a tree looks like after seeing it dozens of times.

It's about the potential interactions between other players moving around in the world instead of flying over everyone not seeing the same scenery. Trying to get past the UC and get to SM as an Ally player in classic is fun because you have to navigate enemy territory crawling with undead players. It's not because I want to look at Tirsfal glades.

[Krelivane]

No, I would hate it if flying was more readily available than it was now. I prefer to experience the world from the ground.

Then that's a sad perspective imo.

Flying was introduced and taking it away, at this point, would be detrimental to the current playerbase.

They need to enhance the system and make flying a way to interact with the world more. I like the chances that it will happen sooner rather than later. Maybe not this next expac though. But the one after; it wouldn't be a surprise.

[Kaleredar]

No, the current system is just fine. In fact, there is no real benefit to having flying at all since most zones are designed with plenty of flight points nowadays.

...so instead of having players manually flying over content, it's more engaging to have them... AFK while flying over content on a flight path?

What?

No, I would hate it if flying was more readily available than it was now. I prefer to experience the world from the ground.

Then you can always go do that while the rest of us fly and get on with our lives.

[nonameelf]

No, I would hate it if flying was more readily available than it was now. I prefer to experience the world from the ground.

Cool. You are perfectly able to do that even when flying is available. Literally no one is forcing you to fly.

[OokOok]

Or a crazy idea since they spend a shitload of time on creating zones, they want people to actually see it and not just fly from quest giver to objective and then back.

I see more of a zone when i'm able to fly, because when you're running in Zandalar, all you can see are trees and mobs attacking you for the entire zone so you're not really looking at the scenery. But when you can fly you fly around exploding and actually checking out the zone without being attacked by a fish

[nonameelf]

That is not how it works.

I -have to- play the game in several different ways because of the goals of myself and the people I play with. One of those ways is: fast-paced efficiency because I need to be raid-ready on that character as soon as possible. In that scenario I am forced to use my flying mount like a deranged junkie: kill 1-2 mobs, fly to the next 1-2 mobs and repeat, fly -over- the content to find the loot or bossmob objective ad nauseum. In fact the very thought of having to play the game like that, like I had to in earlier expansions makes me sea sick.

You guys keep ignoring the "path of least resistance"-argument over and over again while it is one of the most important aspects of core game design to consider.

And as for your other remark: yes, flight points are 100x better because with it you avoid the repetitive unpleasant gameplay scenario explained above. You can't flightpoint 5x between mobs who are only 10-20 yards away from eachother or separated by a cliff or wall...

Your argument basically boils down to "I like doing things this way, but I lack the self control to do them that way if other options are available, therefore everyone should be forced to do things my way."

Which is an incredibly selfish and petty argument.

[Kaleredar]

That is not how it works.

I -have to- play the game in several different ways because of the goals of myself and the people I play with. One of those ways is: fast-paced efficiency because I need to be raid-ready on that character as soon as possible. In that scenario I am forced to use my flying mount like a deranged junkie: kill 1-2 mobs, fly to the next 1-2 mobs and repeat, fly -over- the content to find the loot or bossmob objective ad nauseum. In fact the very thought of having to play the game like that, like I had to in earlier expansions makes me sea sick.

You guys keep ignoring the "path of least resistance"-argument over and over again while it is one of the most important aspects of core game design to consider.

And as for your other remark: yes, flight points are 100x better because with it you avoid the repetitive unpleasant gameplay scenario explained above. You can't flightpoint 5x between mobs who are only 10-20 yards away from eachother or separated by a cliff or wall...

That you let other people dictate the pace of the game for you does not mean you should expect or be able to do the same for others.

[Doomchicken]

I often wonder if flying would be as popular if it wasn't for the ridiculous speed difference between ground and air. If the speeds were reversed, I wonder if anyone would ever mention it.

[nonameelf]

Stop ignoring the "path of least resistance" arguments just because it does not suit you.

What we have right now is a compromise between both sides and yes I will heavily oppose any attempts to move towards 'more flying'.

The only selfishness here is from the people who wish to move away from the current compromise. Trust me, I would likevnothing more than flying to be removed entirely from the game, but you dont see me trying to campaign for it.

The compromise is bullshit. Things worked perfectly fine before Blizzard decided they needed to artificially inflate the amount of play time.

You are the selfish one. You're the one trying to enforce your way of playing on other people.

[Kaleredar]

It is dictated by circumstance, not people.

No, it's not. You COULD do everything without flying. The game is designed around that being possible.

You CHOOSE not to. It is 100% a choice you are making. Every single task that is currently relevant in WoW is doable without a flying mount.

When pathfinder is being arbitrarily gated, there IS no choice. If you wish to play the current expansion that you paid money for, you cannot fly. And the reason it's not possible is because a minority of angry voices are convinced that flying is the reason they're not having as much fun in WoW anymore and have apparently convinced Blizzard of the same, less to say the notion of it ALSO artificially making everything take longer.

[nonameelf]

They came up with pathfinder in WoD, a good amount of expansions after they introduced flying, I doubt it was a majority decision since it upset so many people.

Pathfinder is what Blizzard came up with when the community was outraged over their "no flying at all ever" decision.

[Zatetic]

locks flying so people see zones
has full control over zone creation
has full control over zone creation

[Isaelyn]

My stance on this debate is that i find flying is fun in very specific, niche circumstances but i typically prefer to experience the world from the ground outside of those circumstances. The argument could be made that i could just use my ground mounts then, but that argument doesn't really hold much weight for me since flying mounts are unequivocally better in every respect.

With that said, I *do* feel like this was a valid argument back in bc when at base flying (where most people were) flying mounts traded their convenience for speed.

If we went back to a system where all (not just base like it originally was) forms of flying were noticable slower than ground mounts as a trade off to being able to fly over obstacles? Sure i'd be down to open up flying more then. That would make ground vs flying feel like an actual choice. Maybe base flying could be 25%, epic flying would be 45% and max flying would be 65%.

[thilicen]

Actually they need to kill it once and for all.

[nonameelf]

I disagree.

You keep ignoring the path of least resistance as a concept. As long as you do there is no further common ground to discuss the subject.

Well, yes, because your argument literally is just, "I lack self control so I want everyone to be forced to do things my way," which is just not a position that anyone can ever find common ground with.

[Krelivane]

I disagree. There is no further discussion possible as long as you keep ignoring "the path of least resistance" game design concept.

- - - Updated - - -



I disagree.

You keep ignoring the path of least resistance as a concept. As long as you do there is no further common ground to discuss the subject.

This 'path of least resistance' concept is flawed.

The point is that there's a core aspect of the game that is being avoided and, in turn, hindering the game. Rather than being embraced and used to produce more, unique and diverse content.

[nonameelf]

The path of least resistance is a core game design aspect to consider.

It is not something you can just ignore, unless you want horrible game design and even worse gameplay experience.

That is a choice that you make. I should not be punished for your choices.

[nonameelf]

We are going in circles, but no, there is no choice involved.

Must be hard having no free will like that.

Still don't see why I should be punished because of it.

[Thetruth1400]

Main reason for restriction of flying is that it never was good for the game but by the time Blizz realized it was too late to take it out. So they gave us pathfinder as middle ground solution.

Agreed, but only on the PvP aspect of things. PvE, does it really matter if my open world content I can fly quickly over a bunch of mobs to the named mob in the group, kill him, and fly out? No, it doesn't.

PvP on the other hand, I think they just need to do away with flying if you have warmode enabled. There, it is completely cheapened when you can just tactically drop in from above and murder someone or manage to get OOC for a second and just fly away when losing a fight.

Of course doing away with flying on Warmode means the world can't be designed with flying in mind because those people wouldn't be able to fly to said locations.