World of Warcraft: Shadowlands

[ringpriest]

Did anyone else think of the fact that Icecrown's spire aligns perfectly with the tower of the damned (?).

Didn't Kil'jaeden throw Ner'zhul randomly and he landed there? I thought Icecrown didn't exist from the start, but now it looks like some form of connection between Azeroth and the Shadowlands.

Shh, you're not supposed to bring up the parts of the lore that the writers have forgotten about.

[Saltysquidoon]

Aslong as they don't contradicts themselves it's not retcon. They can expant the lore all they want and maybe this might have been the plan from the very start, you absolutly have no idea.

This has to be a troll post, no one can be this deep into the cool aid.

Also changing the helm of domination from the remote control of the legion's 4th scooby doo attempt at taking over Azeroth to a mystical artefact with a direct connection to the shadowlands is a retcon until we get another Golden asspull that Tichondrius stole it from the shadowlands/deathgod.

[Xi Jinping]

After the reveal of The Necrolords of Maldraxxus, I think it's pretty obvious that there have been a connection with them and the Undead's from the very start of Warcraft III. Maybe even the Dreadlords have some insight to all of this or the origin.

Blizzard have to justify at some point how all of a suddenly the Helm of Domination is connecting a supposedly brigde between Azaroth and Shadowlands. Maybe it wasn't there from the begining of the Lich king, but came later

[Houle]

After the reveal of The Necrolords of Maldraxxus, I think it's pretty obvious that there have been a connection with them and the Undead's from the very start of Warcraft III. Maybe even the Dreadlords have some insight to all of this or the origin.

Blizzard have to justify at some point how all of a suddenly the Helm of Domination is connecting a supposedly brigde between Azaroth and Shadowlands. Maybe it wasn't there from the begining of the Lich king, but came later

Uhm, dude, u just described what a retcon is. Maldraxxus didnt exist in WC3 (!) , and even chronicles states that Ner'zhul used the Nerubian buildings as inspiration. Now suddenly saying "But wait! Theres this part of the death realm that totally looks like the scourge and thats where they have the idea for their buildings, their creatures and whatever from" is literally the definition of a retcon, because IT DIDNT EXIST UNTIL NOW.

[Xi Jinping]

Uhm, dude, u just described what a retcon is. Maldraxxus didnt exist in WC3 (!) , and even chronicles states that Ner'zhul used the Nerubian buildings as inspiration. Now suddenly saying "But wait! Theres this part of the death realm that totally looks like the scourge and thats where they have the idea for their buildings, their creatures and whatever from" is literally the definition of a retcon, because IT DIDNT EXIST UNTIL NOW.

You're right I agree, it's a retcon. I digress, but could't it still be a good thing? I mean, the weird Warcraft III summoning ritual of undead buildings seems very otherwordly. Could't this be a good thing?

- - - Updated - - -

Somebody is havin a dicussion on this threat about some of the stuff we're talking about
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...fore-Lich-King

[Qualia]

Also changing the helm of domination from the remote control of the legion's 4th scooby doo attempt at taking over Azeroth to a mystical artefact with a direct connection to the shadowlands is a retcon until we get another Golden asspull that Tichondrius stole it from the shadowlands/deathgod.

Wait, when did they say that the Helm is “a mystical artefact with direct connection to Shadowlands”? Well, more of a connection than “it uses Death power”, anyway.

[Lordcuasa5]

The expansion is brilliant. I think they did a good job with the Chronicles book, cause they introduce the 5th Old God, the one of the skulls, whose lore will begin to be developed here in this plane of the Shadowlands. That Old God physical form is there, probably in The Maw. There, we will know about the Death entity that have been stolen all the souls, the one that is guiding Sylvanas. But my bet is that a conspiracy related to the last Old God trying to recover its body will be essential. I think that they are going to do with this last Old God the same that they did with Nzoth. Also we are going to see the Supreme being of Death here, which gives they an expansive field for other realities related to the other Powers of the Universe with their respectives Supreme beings. For example, it is Sargeras the king of Fel? or there are other one. The game could endure 25 years more in this context.

[Tiwack]

Did anyone else think of the fact that Icecrown's spire aligns perfectly with the tower of the damned (?).

Didn't Kil'jaeden throw Ner'zhul randomly and he landed there? I thought Icecrown didn't exist from the start, but now it looks like some form of connection between Azeroth and the Shadowlands.

Isn't that just a reflection signifying it's a mirror world similar to the emerald dream? I could see it keeping the world around as if it was all splintered, dead, devoid of life and desolate - while the dream is the opposite.

[Xi Jinping]

lright I think I've figured it out. (Just a quick theory).

-> In Wotlk all the souls of the dead was being harvested into Icecrown

-> They besicly builded a soulhavester machine to fuel Arthas scourge army

-> So there was always the idea of a artifact to containing souls -> Frostmourne right?

-> Frostmourne is ONLY containing souls personally killed with it -> Alot of them show's themselves in Hall of Reflection

-> Meanwhile Icecrown Citedal serves as a giant "soul havester" complex on a industrial scale -> Look at The Forge of Souls

-> The Helm of Domination Serves as it's "Remote Controller" -> It break = All the souls contained in Icecrown is released all at once

-> Souls contained would naturally, then released, travel to The Shadowlands

-> We could imagin a devatating "Burst", because of giant quantities of souls travling between the two planes. -> This could break the barrier

Should I lay down the crack or you think this could be going somewhere?

May I also add blizzard talked about "Anigma"

-> Anigma is souls counted in currency form or big quantities of souls

-> Icecrown releases all the Anigma into The Shadowlands at the start of Expansion -> Spread's it all around The shadowlands

-> We the players have to go around and collect this new-found Anigma (released from ICC) as the new "Azerite Grind" and give it to our covenent

[Mehrunes]

So apparently Sylvanas helped Varian in Legion "as a way to thrust herself into a position of power". Fascinating. Given how she didn't expect to become Warchief, what was her plan with that, exactly? Becoming Horde's ambassador to the Alliance? And we've seen how eager she was to be in a position of power in Before the Storm where she was salty about becoming the Warchief and having to deal with Horde's issues instead of chilling in Undercity with the Forsaken and not being in the spotlight.

Next thing we'll learn is that she created her whole plan with the Shadowlands and the Maw before Arthas even resurrected her even though as late as the start of BfA (i.e. before she touched Azerite for the first time) her plan was simply something as mundanely Forsaken as invading Stormwind and resurrecting its population as Forsaken to refill their ranks. And prevent those souls going into the Maw in the process, which would prevent her from gaining more personal power.

Typical Blizzard consistency is already starting to seep in.


Also, the Jailer is a completely new character. Fuck Mueh'zala I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Nothing says "the driving force of an expansion" as a completely new character no one has any investment in.

[DemonHunter18]

another Wrathgate clusterfuck like I said.

[Mehrunes]

What makes it even funnier is that BtS was written by Golden and Shadowlands is he first expansion she worked on from the beginning. Just stellar.

From other news, Alliance won both warfronts. Despite being outnumbered by Sylvanas' Horde even with Saurfang's bunch of traitors reinforcing them. Unless they won them only after Sylvanas bailed out on the plot and Baine et al bent over for their new master.

[DemonHunter18]

Q: Is Chronicle cannon?
A: It is, but it is from the view of the titans and so there is room to explore the more obscure mythology.

ummmmmmmmm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII....... ummmmmm............... wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

--- snip ---

I don't even...

Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

ummmmmmmmm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII....... ummmmmm............... wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

--- snip ---

I don't even...

Simply amazing. Nothing says "quality" more than spending time to create an explanation weaseling out of contradicting the book that was supposed to set the story straight. If only they spent that time and effort on writing things that don't contradict the Chronicles in the first place, rendering the need to create this explanation moot in the first place... Wait, what am I even saying, that's just physically impossible /s

Also, I wonder how Titans' shattered soul remains are capable of knowing what was going on Draenor, for example.

[Saltysquidoon]

Remember, when it comes to WoW retcons, ignoring internal consistency and just generally bad writing are handwaved as 'not knowing the full story'.

EDIT; 'Chronicles is canon but only from a certain point of view...' Jesus Christ this is a new level of pathetic even by the non existant standards I hold blizzard too, why make the damn books in the first place?

Also, does anyone still believe the obvious lie that they plan two expansions ahead? Nothing about anything in BFA suggests the events of the shadowlands.

[DemonHunter18]

Simply amazing. Nothing says "quality" more than spending time to create an explanation weaseling out of contradicting the book that was supposed to set the story straight. If only they spent that time and effort on writing things that don't contradict the Chronicles in the first place, rendering the need to create this explanation moot in the first place... Wait, what am I even saying, that's just physically impossible /s

Also, I wonder how Titans' shattered soul remains are capable of knowing what was going on Draenor, for example.

it's like they were purposely retconing stuff and then suddenly got enough of that so the Chronicles are just Titans point of view which means they can change whatever they wish without screaming retcons.

I'm lost for words...

[Eucep]

ummmmmmmmm IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII....... ummmmmm............... wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

I don't even...

Yeah, kind of suspected that the writer might be Algalon.

[Aucald]

So apparently Sylvanas helped Varian in Legion "as a way to thrust herself into a position of power". Fascinating. Given how she didn't expect to become Warchief, what was her plan with that, exactly? Becoming Horde's ambassador to the Alliance? And we've seen how eager she was to be in a position of power in Before the Storm where she was salty about becoming the Warchief and having to deal with Horde's issues instead of chilling in Undercity with the Forsaken and not being in the spotlight.

Next thing we'll learn is that she created her whole plan with the Shadowlands and the Maw before Arthas even resurrected her even though as late as the start of BfA (i.e. before she touched Azerite for the first time) her plan was simply something as mundanely Forsaken as invading Stormwind and resurrecting its population as Forsaken to refill their ranks. And prevent those souls going into the Maw in the process, which would prevent her from gaining more personal power.

Typical Blizzard consistency is already starting to seep in.


Also, the Jailer is a completely new character. Fuck Mueh'zala I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Nothing says "the driving force of an expansion" as a completely new character no one has any investment in.

If Sylvanas' partnership with the Jailer in the Maw began in "Edge of Night," and the Jailer is the entity responsible for bending Vol'jin's will and pronouncing Sylvanas as the next Warchief, then Sylvanas was likely aware of what was going to happen to some degree - perhaps not becoming Warchief directly, but aware her power and influence within the Horde was likely to grow in scope (given that in "Before the Storm" she seems surprised herself that she was made Warchief). We also don't know what the nature of those dealings in "Edge of Night" actually were, per se; so it's probably not a case where the current scheme was hatched entirely then and just now has come to fruition.

We also don't know and have never encountered Mueh'zala to any real degree, so the Jailer could still Mueh'zala - or at least "Mueh'zala" is the name the Trolls have given to this enigmatic figure.

[Mehrunes]

If Sylvanas' partnership with the Jailer in the Maw began in "Edge of Night," and the Jailer is the entity responsible for bending Vol'jin's will and pronouncing Sylvanas as the next Warchief, then Sylvanas was likely aware of what was going to happen to some degree - perhaps not becoming Warchief directly, but aware her power and influence within the Horde was likely to grow in scope (given that in "Before the Storm" she seems surprised herself that she was made Warchief). We also don't know what the nature of those dealings in "Edge of Night" actually were, per se; so it's probably not a case where the current scheme was hatched entirely then and just now has come to fruition.

Given how the Horde's political system before BfA demolished the Horde and turned it into an Alliance client state was that of the Warchief being an absolute dictator with zero accountability to anyone, what exactly were the alternatives to her becoming the Warchief that would still end up with her gaining more power within it? The Jailer telling Vol'jin a specific plan on how to remodel the Horde's political structure? With Vol'jin falling for that because he'd think he's listening to the Loa of Political Sciences? Even then, why would that rely on her teaming up with Varian instead of doing something specifically for the Horde?

[Aucald]

Given how the Horde's political system before BfA demolished the Horde and turned it into an Alliance client state was that of the Warchief being an absolute dictator with zero accountability to anyone, what exactly were the alternatives to her becoming the Warchief that would still end up with her gaining more power within it? The Jailer telling Vol'jin a specific plan on how to remodel the Horde's political structure? With Vol'jin falling for that because he'd think he's listening to the Loa of Political Sciences? Even then, why would that rely on her teaming up with Varian instead of doing something specifically for the Horde?

That seems like a bizarre segue into an unrelated topic. Regardless, she could've just been entrusted with more power or influence within the Horde - as it's not as if certain leaders don't enjoy more than others, as it were. If the Jailer could influence Vol'jin to name Sylvanas Warchief it could've easily influenced Vol'jin to speak well of Sylvanas' courage and decisiveness at the Broken Shore, raising her esteem in the eyes of her fellow leaders, etc. etc. I mean why did Vol'jin name her to begin with? He says in BfA he has no memories of the event, and that a powerful darkness had overtaken his consciousness, so if it was the Jailer it could've done whatever it wanted in that timeframe.

Her teaming up with Varian was all about being in the right place at the right time, to ensure that regardless of what went down she was seen as a hero and savior of the Horde in light of their defeat by the Legion originally.