Ppls and their „new class“ fetish

[Niwes]

New classes didn't stop them from overhauling existing ones in WotLK, MoP, and Legion. It's safe to say most couldn't care less about balance and would sacrifice streamlining in favor of fun gameplay. And if a new class is just a reskin then I'm guessing you're vehemently against cosmetics. Adding insult to injury, the art department has nothing to do with balance and numbers.

it should be obviously since many xpacs that wow is on the cost effective development route. most QoL changes were simple made to make develoment easier, faster, cheaper, less maintable and recycable. regardsless if we talk about pruning, or autogenerated items instead lootlists or rng concepts or stuff like sceenarios or rebuilded dungeons and scenes by gfx artfifacts from other expansions or cheap systems like azerite that are easy and cheap to implement and maintain while giving the imagination of complexity and deepness. long story short: wow is based on cost effective development since years. you can call it „milking the cow“ if you wish.

that said: in this development environment you get a budget. ion get a budget. and regardless if there is a team that making the class gfx styles and another team that making the mechanics that doesnt matter. because the gfx team i.e. do not work on other wow gfx for content or even (in agile development companies) on D4 stuff etc. in the end it costs money. and effort. and blizz have to decide where this effort goes. therefore you have a budget.

to say „making a class“ can go in parallel and therefore is pseudo for free or anything weird, is from ppl that have no glue how these companies work and whats happen there in real world. to me its horrible to read some ppls statements on mmoc because that ppl or kids have so totally no glue how real life works in bigger companies. i was a sw developer in such a company for over 15 years and some ppl here are completely dellusional.

so, long story short: when you bring a new class in a wow xpac, you LOOSE something else. thre is no way around this. and to say, as above quoted poster, you can bring both, a new class and the features of shadowlands, is totally right. but this means investment. and wow is since years on a cost effective development route and blizz is not willing to make that investment. what you get is what is in the budget. and the budgets mantra is: „make most possible profit with the least possible effort.“ and thats the reality.

to be a bit sarcastic here: ion would say „your class costs you a raid tier“.

[Ielenia]

Hey,

what does ppls have with this „new class“ fetish ?

Its the same BS in another packing. A new class will be also based on the same builder/consumer pattern as every other class. They have already done ANY mechanic on the other 36 specs. So we talk solely about GFX and style.

And even if not: Most ppl do not stop playing their main and have ZERO value of a new class. Also Blizzard, which are not able to balance the existing 36 specs, have 2-3 specs more that influences balancing. They were so fukin out of ideas already that DH only got 2 specs in Legion, because every shit is already done before in the other 34 specs. Why bring that shit again on the table in a game that obviously can not handle them and have no real value of it ?

If the 36 specs get new or changed talents, or varying/customizable playstyles, everyone profits 10 times from that, than from a new class. The game feels better. For everyone. Instead „yeah, we have another class“.

I dont get it. I, personally, trade a new class against „NO RNG“, „better talents/class design“ and „playable alts“ EVERY FUKIN DAY in my life!

/discuss

• A different class to level up.
• Shaking up the meta.
• Greater diversity in the class line-up.
• Some people like to try new things.

Those are four possible reasons why one would want a new class.

[Niwes]

I have a fetish for fun, you got me there. I feel so foolish now.

blizzard as a company sucks these days. they want your money but they will not invest too much so they make most profit possible. they piss on long term customers. they piss on you and your fun. they are interessted in good quarter numbers. regardles whose bring them the money or how. this is 2019. this is something you can not change.

so. that said, i ask you a question: when they would say „we give you a new class, but therefore you get 1 raid and 3 dungeons and a half assed filler expansion with nothing to do“ would that be still so fun for you ?

ppl in 2019 should learn what „tradeoffs“ means.

[Triceron]

i am not trying to defending anything here. i am still sceptical and my oppinion will built up if i see more of it. but this has nothing to do with this tread. nonetheless i do not understand the outcry or the need for a new class. and this is what the thread is about.

You're attacking one side though, so if you're nit defending anything then you're just being an asshole.

Just saying.

[bufferunderrun]

Hey,

what does ppls have with this „new class“ fetish ?

Its the same BS in another packing. A new class will be also based on the same builder/consumer pattern as every other class. They have already done ANY mechanic on the other 36 specs. So we talk solely about GFX and style.

And even if not: Most ppl do not stop playing their main and have ZERO value of a new class. Also Blizzard, which are not able to balance the existing 36 specs, have 2-3 specs more that influences balancing. They were so fukin out of ideas already that DH only got 2 specs in Legion, because every shit is already done before in the other 34 specs. Why bring that shit again on the table in a game that obviously can not handle them and have no real value of it ?

If the 36 specs get new or changed talents, or varying/customizable playstyles, everyone profits 10 times from that, than from a new class. The game feels better. For everyone. Instead „yeah, we have another class“.

I dont get it. I, personally, trade a new class against „NO RNG“, „better talents/class design“ and „playable alts“ EVERY FUKIN DAY in my life!

/discuss

a new class usually bring a new story, some new mechanics, new animations and effects and is actually something really new; also customizable playstile is just a pipe dream once spreadhsheeters start analyzing logs the customization part will fly out of the windows unless blizzard close damage meters and logs thats it; rng? Ahaha you really think blizzard gonna get rid of it? gonna change the name and the way you deal with it but get rid? no fucking way.
So in the end you trade a new class for nothing but a smoke screen that will dissipate just 1 month into the new xpack (if not before there is always the card that something they announced at blizzcon didn't made it to the game).

[Lochton]

Hey,

what does ppls have with this „new class“ fetish ?

Its the same BS in another packing. A new class will be also based on the same builder/consumer pattern as every other class. They have already done ANY mechanic on the other 36 specs. So we talk solely about GFX and style.

And even if not: Most ppl do not stop playing their main and have ZERO value of a new class. Also Blizzard, which are not able to balance the existing 36 specs, have 2-3 specs more that influences balancing. They were so fukin out of ideas already that DH only got 2 specs in Legion, because every shit is already done before in the other 34 specs. Why bring that shit again on the table in a game that obviously can not handle them and have no real value of it ?

If the 36 specs get new or changed talents, or varying/customizable playstyles, everyone profits 10 times from that, than from a new class. The game feels better. For everyone. Instead „yeah, we have another class“.

I dont get it. I, personally, trade a new class against „NO RNG“, „better talents/class design“ and „playable alts“ EVERY FUKIN DAY in my life!

/discuss

Well, if we followed the past, it would've been a new class. Hence why it was a topic in the first place.

[Niwes]

Honestly, my Demon Hunter feels very different from anything else I have played. Especially enjoying the mobility and the high burst AoE.

so, you like your DH it seems. what reasons you have to switch to new class ?

most ppl out there maintain 1 main. half of their life. mostly you have to decide. you have to sacrifice 1 of 12 classes for 1 new class. its simple not a great deal for most ppl out there.

dont get me wrong: i am one of the heaviest altoholics here. i am that person that by faaar would profit most of a new class. because i played all classes since 2005 excessively (besides monk). so i should call for the new class feature.

but i am aware that i have to make a tradeoff then. and the things i have to tradeoff for a new class is it not worth imo. even when you are an altoholic like me.

ofc a new class is fun. but a good designed xpac and content also. for me, a new class is not worth that tradeoff. and lets be honest here: from blizzard 2019 you will NOT get both (as said above).

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I will believe that "no new class" was a good idea when the specs we have actually get the improvements they should have had 5 expansions ago. I want new stuff that makes me excited to play again. Even something like more cosmetic choices for existing classes would've been really cool. Maybe if I play a night elf priest I want my abilities to have a more lunar aesthetic. Or maybe I want my shamans spells to have a more witch doctor vibe. Or maybe I want my demonology warlock to feel more like a necromancer. Cosmetic stuff like this would've been just as good or even better than getting a new class. And it wouldn't bring any of the "balance issues" 3 new specs would bring.

same oppinion here.

[HCLM]

Feels like you're just being purposefully obtuse. Not sure why it's so hard to understand. Classes have changed over the years, but a Warrior is still a Warrior. A Mage is still a Mage.

People want new/different archetypes to have fun with. Like a new Ranged Physical DPS, or maybe an Intellect-based tank.

If you can't understand that people like new things, then you just need to give up arguing against it because you quite simply are incapable of understanding/accepting that people having a different opinions than you doesn't make them wrong.

I believe OP was refering to people who were straight up saying Shadowlands is garbage because no new class.

Anyway I still prefer if they fix current classes than they waste resources on new class that wont bring anything to the table except from a new OP class that will need to be fixed.

[Mixxy]

Hey,

what does ppls have with this „new class“ fetish ?

Its the same BS in another packing. A new class will be also based on the same builder/consumer pattern as every other class. They have already done ANY mechanic on the other 36 specs. So we talk solely about GFX and style.

"Why even play new video games? You'll just be pushing buttons and looking at a screen, which is exactly the same thing you do with old video games!"

[Clozer]

You can have both. Good class design and a new class.

If you think that all classes will be improved with 9.0 you gonna end up very disappointed.

[Niwes]

I don't know why it's so hard to understand why some people like new classes to play. People have been playing the same classes for 15 years in some cases.

when you played the same class for 15 years you have 11 other classes you can play. everyone of them is new for you. class number 13 from 2019 is not newer or brings any more reasons to play exactly that class now than another.

and the same goes for ppl that have changed, after 13 years, to DH, 2 years ago. that ppl can no longr say what you said and have no reason for a new class. and you could time travel back 2 yeras and say them the same shit.

what i wanna say with this: your argument is totally stupid and weird, offers no logical reasons for anything and says factual nothing.

[Teekey]

Anyway I still prefer if they fix current classes than they waste resources on new class that wont bring anything to the table except from a new OP class to be fixed.

Why not both? I don't see why it has to be an either/or situation.

what i wanna say with this: your argument is totally stupid and weird, offers no logical reasons for anything and says factual nothing.

LOL. People like playing new stuff. That's all there is to it. Doesn't matter whatsoever if you find it stupid, illogical, or non-factual.

In fact, I find it stupid and illogical that you can't understand whatsoever why some people might want a new class

[Niwes]

There's nothing to discuss if this is your stance. It's like saying 'I hate broccoli and the people who love it. Discuss'. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that someone else wants or likes something different then you do.

i would even agree to that, when ppl would realize that a new class has tradeoffs. and that makes the difference in your comparisson, imo.

you CAN discuss 1kg brocolli vs 1 chicken nugget, when you sit on an island and have nothing else to food. even if you love chicken nuggets and hate brocolli. as some weird example to make my point above more clear.

we dont talk here about an endless, free wishlist where ppl can say „i want this, i want that“ etc. in such an environment your argument is right. if we can get everything we want, its all about taste. but we dont.

[Mixxy]

A new class means a new style, new talents, new builds, new abilities... just, new gameplay.

Rebalancing specs doesn't provide new gameplay. It refines gameplay. Gameplay that I've already experienced.

The only times in the game's entire lifespan that a spec overhaul has ever felt like a truly new experience are when Survival Hunter and Demonology Warlock got their recent reworks.

[Shadowbans]

Well. Blizzard’s take on new classes is as it follows;”if it makes sense, we will introduce one”
But to be honest I am a bit sceptical regarding this comment, as a necromancer class would highly make sense in this expansion

[Niwes]

If they don't like ANY other class than there is a solid chance they won't enjoy a new class either.

i would also say there is a solid chance such a guy is in the wrong game lol

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Also, why the fuck is any feature that someone disagrees with personally ridiculed as a "fetish"?

Grow up.

i dont disagree to new classes. i just fear the tradeoff. ppl do not realize that there is a tradeoff at blizz2019 for a new class. so i just can not understand why they state that above everything else. to me that feels fetishishshshs.

[Mixxy]

i would even agree to that, when ppl would realize that a new class has tradeoffs. and that makes the difference in your comparisson, imo.

What tradeoffs do you think a new class has?

Why do you think it's a new class or good class design? Why can't we have both?

Neither Blizzard, nor the players, should ever accept bad class design. Regardless of whether or not there's a new class to play with.



Look at it this way... there's already 36 specs in the game. What in the world makes you think 36 is a manageable, balance-able number, but 39 is absolutely not?

[Kumorii]

It's almost as if new gameplay and new class fantasies is compelling somehow.
New gameplay is actually a BIG reason to be excited about ANY game.

[Niwes]

While I am not one of those people who every expansion want a new class and sometimes I do scratch my head over some of the desired choices, I can understand the desire of some people who really want a certain class. I, myself, don't understand how a tinkerer would be much different from a hunter with engineering spec. But maybe the player has this really unique vision of how they would work and would be.

Maybe some of this comes from playing other games. Would a barbarian be that much different than a warrior? No, but would I still like one? sure. The argument that there is already 36 specs, pick one nad be happy, is like saying there is 20 flavors of ice cream we don't need any more. And while I could say maybe so, that new Honey graham cracker is pretty damn good.

Every expansion represents a chance to get your ideal dream class\race\spec\feature added. I get that it disappoints people when the announcement is made and that dream is dashed against the rocks.

this all assumes, as often said now, that we get a new class for free. this will not happen. we loose something else.

so yes, i am not a fan of ice cream sort 21 if i have to tradeoff the waffels or other things like cofee, ice choclate etc. for that 21th sort.

[Teekey]

i dont disagree to new classes. i just fear the tradeoff. ppl do not realize that there is a tradeoff at blizz2019 for a new class. so i just can not understand why they state that above everything else. to me that feels fetishishshshs.

Some people just hope for some value with the hundreds of dollars we pour into this game.

We pay $15 a month and $40 for expansions. I don't see why it should be an either/or situation. They absolutely should be able to give us a new class AND fix the classes they broke.

Good for you that you're able to settle for less, but some of us feel like we deserve more for our money.