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  1. #1

    Shadowlands paladin changes

    So with shadowlands on the horizon, I am excited to see what iconic spells are going to return and how the devs will implement that. Will they be impactful or rather lackluster (looking at you, Ret Aura).
    From the Deep Dive it seems Consecration is going to return to all paladins (not sure if I am happy about that), so does Hammer of Wrath.
    I also read about Exorcism for prot (hopefully ret and holy will get the spell, too).
    So what do you expect? What abilities or even mechanics do you want to see returning?
    Last edited by ExiHext; 2019-11-07 at 07:10 AM. Reason: HoW baseline, not a talent.

  2. #2
    I am excited to see auras return. But I do hope they keep away from the blessings (as buffs). They are so insignificant as is I honestly forget to use them and as actually real buffs there was really just Kings. Maybe if they return as a 5 min cd, 5 min buff for an ally?

    Exorcism will be great for this expac thematically!

    I also wonder if they will add holy power to each spec or remove it from ret?

  3. #3
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    please god let them remove holy power.

  4. #4
    Even if i really love the "Unpruning" thing, i never thought auras were something really exciting because their effect were not that impactul.

    I would love if every paladin got auras that you want to switch like Lucio in OW, with aura mastery being the "Boost the current one for Xs" with a short CD
    Aura for speed, aura for mastery buff, stat buffs, damage reduction, heals... stuff like that.

    The future will tell.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gioderpington View Post

    I also wonder if they will add holy power to each spec or remove it from ret?
    This I can't see happening, if I am honest. But I have to admit that I play WoW since Cata, so I don't know Ret without HoPo.

    I wouldn't be too mad if we got Blessing of Might and Blessing of Kings back as 1h group buffs, but I don't think they will add it back. On the other hand: those where quite iconic abilities, too. So who knows?
    They were quite unspecific about everything it seems. Hope we will get some more info out of the interviews that are held the next few days.

  6. #6
    If they removed Holy power from ret id play it in a heart beat!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjiiim View Post
    Even if i really love the "Unpruning" thing
    To be quite honest, "unpruning" sounds like an awful idea. I don't want old abilities back, I want this expansion to bring new and interesting abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cringers View Post
    If they removed Holy power from ret id play it in a heart beat!
    Being limited exclusively by cooldowns is how we got to "faceroll Ret" in WotLK. While that was a good time to be a Ret, that was in large part due to how hard most of the core abilities hit rather than anything mechanical.

    Being limited by Mana is how we got to Classic Ret - Where you need to constantly throttle your damage in order to not run out of Mana. That's not a fun or interesting playstyle either for a melee class. It works fine for Arcane Mages, but it's their whole schtick. A Melee version of that wouldn't work out anything like as well, Mages can afford to stop casting to channel Evocation but stopping auto attacking would cripple your damage output.

    If Holy Power was removed what would you add instead? The spec needs more mechanics than "Press all the buttons!".

  8. #8
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Being limited exclusively by cooldowns is how we got to "faceroll Ret" in WotLK. While that was a good time to be a Ret, that was in large part due to how hard most of the core abilities hit rather than anything mechanical.

    Being limited by Mana is how we got to Classic Ret - Where you need to constantly throttle your damage in order to not run out of Mana. That's not a fun or interesting playstyle either for a melee class. It works fine for Arcane Mages, but it's their whole schtick. A Melee version of that wouldn't work out anything like as well, Mages can afford to stop casting to channel Evocation but stopping auto attacking would cripple your damage output.

    If Holy Power was removed what would you add instead? The spec needs more mechanics than "Press all the buttons!".
    Being limited by cooldown is still functionally what Holy Power is from a balance perspective.
    You can just slap a cooldown on Templar's Verdict that corresponds to roughly the amount of Crusader Strikes/Judgements/Blades of Whatever you needed to get enough Holy Power, and outright remove the system and it'd play exactly the same.

    Having the spec turn into a slow, lumbering slugfest of a mess just to slap Holy Power on it was just a colossal mistake.

  9. #9
    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Being limited by cooldown is still functionally what Holy Power is from a balance perspective.
    Damn, beat me to it, lol

    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    If Holy Power was removed what would you add instead? The spec needs more mechanics than "Press all the buttons!".
    I mean, for people that just don't like to keep track of HoPo as a UI element. I think they could do cooldown ret, and just have the abilities that generated holy power instead reduce the CDs on the abilities proportional to the amount of HoPo they provided before. Exactly the same gameplay, same casts per min of finishers, but now they can say "We removed holy power!" and all the memers can be satisfied

  10. #10
    Immortal Kithelle's Avatar
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    Meh...auras are just little buffs that do almost nothing, not particularly excited. Now if they can bring back something like Divine Storm with how it worked in WotLK or WoD that would be cool. Maybe some seals...
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    You can just slap a cooldown on Templar's Verdict that corresponds to roughly the amount of Crusader Strikes/Judgements/Blades of Whatever you needed to get enough Holy Power, and outright remove the system and it'd play exactly the same.
    Not quite. Blade of Justice being 2 Holy Power and with a chance to reset it's cooldown can drastically alter the moment-to-moment optimisation choices you make. Like not using Blade of Justice at 4 Holy Power, because one will go to waste, where in a cooldown priority system you'd hit it on cooldown every cooldown. Having a choice of finishers as well as the posiability to use them at anything from 3-5 Holy Power also opens up a couple of optimisation choices for the player too.

    I agree that Holy Power isn't the best system, and I'm not trying to start that debate. I was asking what would you replace it with?

  12. #12
    If I get my auras, I am a happy man. Plus I will take the Hammer of Wrath as prot. Finally it is back...

  13. #13
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    Not quite. Blade of Justice being 2 Holy Power and with a chance to reset it's cooldown can drastically alter the moment-to-moment optimisation choices you make. Like not using Blade of Justice at 4 Holy Power, because one will go to waste, where in a cooldown priority system you'd hit it on cooldown every cooldown. Having a choice of finishers as well as the posiability to use them at anything from 3-5 Holy Power also opens up a couple of optimisation choices for the player too.

    I agree that Holy Power isn't the best system, and I'm not trying to start that debate. I was asking what would you replace it with?
    Replace it with some more similar to Maelstrom that the shamans have, call it Zeal or something similar, and voilá you now have more modularity over what you actually do in a rotation and what you can do, on top of the devs having greater control over resource modifying talents impacting combat flow.
    Slap the ol' Divine Storm proc from T10/WoD and you get something that feels a lot better to play.

  14. #14
    I'd like to see a priority system set up, get rid of the random procs except for templars verdict/divine storm resets through divine purpose. So judgment would still empower your templars/divine storm, but it would be an x>y>z system, all with diffrent cd's affected by haste, so as your gear progressed your rotation was altered more.

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  15. #15
    Aura's back, along with Consecration and Hammer of Wrath baseline. Overall good changes, although I hope they make aura's more useful to Ret for once.

    Now they just need to keep Holy Power and make sure Seals keep rotting in the boring hellhole that spawned them.
    Last edited by Elkas; 2019-11-03 at 12:18 AM.

  16. #16
    Paladins simply just aren't as fun as they used to be for me. At least in legion I felt artifacts produced some more "oomph" to them, but bfa killed that for me. Part of the reason i quit playing honestly. I really enjoyed holy paladin the most in wotlk and cataclysm. Wotlk had the 100% beacon, as broken as it was. And in cataclysm we had 3 primary healing spells outside of holy shock & word of glory. I liked having that choice. I really enjoyed the beginning of cataclysm before it was nerfed I think in 4.3 when you judged with seal of insight, gaining a portion of mana back. All these healer changes over the years have just killed it for me.

  17. #17
    I hope auras will be somehow impactful or made impactful through talents.
    Cons is a quite iconic spell, but I hope it will be not as stationary as it is.

    One thing I really miss since Legion is Hammer of the Righteous. An AoE-Builder would be great.

    Oh, and I read something about PvP talents. This really sucks. I had hopes they were going to trash them.:-/

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringers View Post
    If they removed Holy power from ret id play it in a heart beat!
    Same. Also if palas somehow got divine intervention back I'd also main a paladin without hesitation

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryZebra View Post
    To be quite honest, "unpruning" sounds like an awful idea. I don't want old abilities back, I want this expansion to bring new and interesting abilities.



    Being limited exclusively by cooldowns is how we got to "faceroll Ret" in WotLK. While that was a good time to be a Ret, that was in large part due to how hard most of the core abilities hit rather than anything mechanical.

    Being limited by Mana is how we got to Classic Ret - Where you need to constantly throttle your damage in order to not run out of Mana. That's not a fun or interesting playstyle either for a melee class. It works fine for Arcane Mages, but it's their whole schtick. A Melee version of that wouldn't work out anything like as well, Mages can afford to stop casting to channel Evocation but stopping auto attacking would cripple your damage output.

    If Holy Power was removed what would you add instead? The spec needs more mechanics than "Press all the buttons!".
    Yellow combo points aren't any more fun thanbase Mana.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    Just give back the mobility row!
    It's high noon.
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