Shadowlands paladin changes

[Kalisandra]

The system I want wouldn't have any debuffs. It would essentially be a 3x3 grid of 'HoPo' where each column is a different seal that gives different passives. The 3rd row would give a mastery proc (damage burst for ret) instead of the seal passive. Each builder will only fill a certain column, and filling the column will generally make that builder better to use (but never quite as strong as the spender). Spenders will consume 3 'HoPo', but will consume them evenly across the grid if they can.

This is all about adding depth and decision making to the core of the spec, and class. Prot and Holy would aslo work well with this system.

So, you go builder-1, builder-2, builder-3 three times (you could go 1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3), but when the bars are full and you're doing build-spend you'll want to be doing 1-2-3, so you might as well start like that too), and then start to actually do damage after nine GCDs just building stacks. There's no decision-making here. Not during combat anyway. If one of the buffs is to Haste you'll stack that first, but otherwise it's just this simple fixed rotation.

[roboscorcher]

So, you go builder-1, builder-2, builder-3 three times (you could go 1-1-1-2-2-2-3-3-3), but when the bars are full and you're doing build-spend you'll want to be doing 1-2-3, so you might as well start like that too), and then start to actually do damage after nine GCDs just building stacks. There's no decision-making here. Not during combat anyway. If one of the buffs is to Haste you'll stack that first, but otherwise it's just this simple fixed rotation.

Here's where it gets interesting.
- Single-target short fight, you probably spam Crusader Strike and spend on TV.
- AOE short fight, you spam Consecrate (long CD removed) and spend on DS.
- To close gaps, spam Blade of Justice, which gives crit AND movespeed.

As for long fights, a lot of factors could come into play to make a full bar more challenging:
- seals could have a limited duration, but adding a stack could refresh it.
- other abilities (like Wake of Ashes) could refresh the seal durations.
- as with the current HoPo system, a proc could allow you to gain 2 stacks on a single cast, or spenders cost less.
- procs could make certain seals become more desirable to build/spend during the fight.

[StrawberryZebra]

I never claimed that the classic seals were better than HoPo. You are correct that the seals were janky and most were only useful if you had the right scenario AND weapon speed.

So, what you're really saying here is "Seals sucked and I want a completely different mechanic to borrow the Seal name".

Although the system you're proposing here is, in reality, Holy Power with a different name. You'd spend 3, then quickly refill the 3 you spent, and then spend them again. The big difference would be that you'd have a cap of 9 instead of 5. What you're proposing here is a system where you would have 3 builders, 1 spender and a bunch of passive damage. In many ways, you'd be more restricted with your version, only being able to go from 6-9 without any excess before needing to use a finisher.

That's excluding other issues like the long ramp up time to get to 9 before you can use a spender. It's also completely lacking in any form of interesting decision making. You'll press 1, 2, 3, spender over and over and over with no room for variation.

[roboscorcher]

So, what you're really saying here is "Seals sucked and I want a completely different mechanic to borrow the Seal name".

Although the system you're proposing here is, in reality, Holy Power with a different name. You'd spend 3, then quickly refill the 3 you spent, and then spend them again. The big difference would be that you'd have a cap of 9 instead of 5. What you're proposing here is a system where you would have 3 builders, 1 spender and a bunch of passive damage. In many ways, you'd be more restricted with your version, only being able to go from 6-9 without any excess before needing to use a finisher.

That's excluding other issues like the long ramp up time to get to 9 before you can use a spender. It's also completely lacking in any form of interesting decision making. You'll press 1, 2, 3, spender over and over and over with no room for variation.

No, you can use a spender as soon as you have any 3 'HoPo'. If you cast Wake of Ashes and it gives u 1 stack of each seal, go ahead and spend it! Or spam CS 3 times and spend. The second option will run you out of mana over time though, so you will want to also have a seal up that reduces mana cost. Going up to 9 is just for long fights, and would ideally be harder to maintain than spending at 3. It is better overall though, because filling a seal gives you bonus damage every time. Bigger risk, bigger reward.

The goal here is to build a higher skill ceiling with the existing rotation.

And yes, the old seal system is not going to work. No one wants to press a separate 'seal' button, then judge, and reapply it for every new target. It doesn't work for retail.

[Kalisandra]

Here's where it gets interesting.
- Single-target short fight, you probably spam Crusader Strike and spend on TV.
- AOE short fight, you spam Consecrate (long CD removed) and spend on DS.
- To close gaps, spam Blade of Justice, which gives crit AND movespeed.

As for long fights, a lot of factors could come into play to make a full bar more challenging:
- seals could have a limited duration, but adding a stack could refresh it.
- other abilities (like Wake of Ashes) could refresh the seal durations.
- as with the current HoPo system, a proc could allow you to gain 2 stacks on a single cast, or spenders cost less.
- procs could make certain seals become more desirable to build/spend during the fight.

Except that you can't spend out of a single seal, according to your previous posts. So a proc is just annoying, and at most just means you skip that one builder and continue your rotation.

[Lemondish]

"Seals" should have just been the name for "Holy Power".

When you gain a point of holy power, you "forge a seal". When you spend a point of holy power, you "shatter a seal".

[roboscorcher]

Except that you can't spend out of a single seal, according to your previous posts. So a proc is just annoying, and at most just means you skip that one builder and continue your rotation.

You can spend any 3 HoPo you have. But the system would try to spread the consumption across the 3 seals. The goal is that it can be flexible: you can spam a single builder 3x and spend if the situation is right for it. Or you can build all each seal to 3 stacks for more longevity.

Another plus to this system: you can stack 3 spenders in a row as a finisher. This would be good when using that bonus-damage mechanic for consecutive TVs.

EDIT: Here's a mockup I did a while ago of the UI. In it, Seal of Command (red) is filled, Seal Of Righteousness (blue) is at 2, and Seal of Light (yellow) is at 1. Using a spender now would eat the top stack from each seal, leaving SoC at 2 and SoR at 1. You could then spend again, eating all the remaining stacks.