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  1. #1

    What exactly is Holinka so proud of when it comes to combat / class design?

    Remember this tweet from Holinka, one month before Blizzcon?







    What exactly is he so proud of or excited about? During Blizzcon I haven't seen anything that would warrant this excitement. Not one thing.

    - Unpruning classes by giving them back skills they barely use (e.g. Frostbolt for Fire Mages, Fire Totem for Resto Shaman etc.) is a nice fluff but nothing groundbreaking.

    - In Shadowlands we don't get a new talent row, it all stays the same with seven rows as we have it right now. This means no new talent row for the third expansion in a row, the last time we got a new row was 2014 with WoD. This means after Shadowlands we played 7 years without a new talent row although 30 new levels were added.

    - Class revamps are nowhere near as massive as they were with Legion because they deemed this as "not necessary". For some specs it might be true but many specs play so bland and boring that revamps are even needed more than before Legion (e.g. Shadowpriests, they've been perfectly fine before Legion and then been ruined and only became worse in BfA, the same about Resto Shamans and several other specs).

    - Compared to Covenants even Azerite traits look exciting. Covenants are Reputations with glorified Essences plus a pretty useless "fun" ability for mobility or movement; the passive talent trees (Soulbinds) are just boring passives, the main reason why they got rid of talent trees in the first place. It's not bad, it's just completely uncreative and shallow.

    So the only thing left to be excited for are self-craftable legendaries, something they only mentioned briefly and didn't even give us an example of an effect. Remember, in Legion most Legendaries were not only class but spec-specific and we had dozens of them for each class. If they do this for craftable legendaries it's huge but based on the effort they seem to put into class and combat design in Shadowlands I'd rather expect Prydaz & Sephus level of class-unspecific craftable legendaries (I know in his example Ion used the Fire Mage bracers yet that might have been just that, an example).

    The Ion panel and the deep dive yesterday were incredibly lackluster and shy of - at least - some details, so there might be more to come. But what exactly are the things to be excited about when it comes to the area Holinka is lead designer, combat & class design? I really want to know.

    Shadowlands looks like an amazing expansion for customization, the art team is nailing it as it always does,

    but when it comes to gameplay - as of now - it looks like it's incredibly lacking.
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  2. #2
    He's proud to keep his job, that's all.

  3. #3
    I, too, like to cry before I know any details.

  4. #4
    Obviously he is paid to create hype and excitement.

    Even the whole "if you had to be at a blizzcon, THIS is the one" is utter fucking garbage and bullshit.

    That would have been Legion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    I, too, like to cry before I know any details.
    This is literally the same shit as all those "wait for the deep dive" idiots said

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    We don't know enough at this stage. To me, it sounded like a lot of the decisions they make will rely on player feedback during the Alpha/Beta, similar to Legion.
    Terrible Writing 1 - 0 The Bolvar

  6. #6
    I really don't give a shit about unpruned abilities, I want talents to be a choice again. In BfA you have 1 talent build for most specs that does everything, in Legion you talent swapped for nearly every raid boss fight.

  7. #7
    I like the new class identity + sort of new talent trees in the Soulbinds.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans ercarp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spurious View Post
    This is literally the same shit as all those "wait for the deep dive" idiots said
    1. Wait for the Deep Dive, guys!
    2. Wait for the Q&A! They're sure to answer everything there!
    3. Wait for the Alpha! It's stupid to argue before we even get to play the game.
    4. Wait for the Beta! The game was clearly in an unfinished stage in Alpha!
    5. Wait for the first patch! They weren't able to get everything fixed in time, but by the first patch, I'm sure they will!
    6. Wait for the second patch! The first patch is always a bit messy with every expansion, guys.
    7. Wait for the third patch! The last patch will redeem this expansion.
    8. Wait for the next expansion! After they fucked up this expansion so bad, there's no chance in hell that the next expansion could be bad.
    Terrible Writing 1 - 0 The Bolvar

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogguh View Post
    I, too, like to cry before I know any details.
    This is a problem caused solely by Blizzard because they've stayed so incredibly vague about most things. By giving us some detailed examples (e.g. one reworked spec, one craftable legendary) they could have stopped all controversy and "crying" (as some might rate it) but they choose to stay as vague as possible.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again
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  10. #10
    Yea to say I was expecting more would be an understatement.

    No new talents, specs, or classes. Just a promise that our classes will be better? Ok but this could’ve all been achieved with a pre expac patch

    This may be the most feature light any wow expac has ever been so far

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    1. Wait for the Deep Dive, guys!
    2. Wait for the Q&A! They're sure to answer everything there!
    3. Wait for the Alpha! It's stupid to argue before we even get to play the game.
    4. Wait for the Beta! The game was clearly in an unfinished stage in Alpha!
    5. Wait for the first patch! They weren't able to get everything fixed in time, but by the first patch, I'm sure they will!
    6. Wait for the second patch! The first patch is always a bit messy with every expansion, guys.
    7. Wait for the third patch! The last patch will redeem this expansion.
    8. Wait for the next expansion! After they fucked up this expansion so bad, there's no chance in hell that the next expansion could be bad.
    Yea it’s eye rolling and from my experience the way it is in alpha/beta is how it’s gonna launch anyway so the legwork was presented at blizzcon and felt very meh

    They couldn’t even add a necromancer class in an expansion about death. Pathetic

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    (Soulbinds) are just boring passives, the main reason why they got rid of talent trees in the first place. It's not bad, it's just completely uncreative and shallow.
    This is not true

    Have you seen both the passives that were presented to us?
    Have you actually read them?

    1)5% crit increase against people with lower health pool than you creates a snowball effect in PvP

    2)30% reduced damage when you fall bellow 35% health is INSANE in PvP

    And this are just a SMALL option in the tree.

    Are...you...insane?

  12. #12
    I like that you guys are learning to stop listening to hype comments
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  13. #13
    Exactlty , They are bringing back abilities which wont be used in core rotation , i doubt fire mage would use frostbolt , it feels more like cosmetic spells ...

    We need fundemental changes to classes ,
    Bring back artifact abilities as baseline
    Remove all useless talents and replace them with new ones
    Give more baseline class abilities
    New talent row



    It seems holinka is proud he was able to convince people classes will be good , when in reality they will just change few things like BfA and be done with it




    Plus covenants are rehashed artifacts and order halls , and will create many problems for dual spec , thats without mentioning balancing

    Tower of doom is island expeditionds rehashed

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    No new talents, specs, or classes. Just a promise that our classes will be better?
    And then they went and said that they were trying not to change classes too much... Make of that what you will but to me that statement breaks said “promise”.

  15. #15
    While we know there wont be major overhauls, we know that some changes to the classes will happen. More spells will be universal, and some will be moved to baseline from talents, meaning new playstyles or talents at least.

    I just hope DH get made fun again.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  16. #16
    Probably proud of the fact he hasn't be fired yet.

  17. #17
    I don't really know. The classes in the shadowlands demo looked exactly like the the specs we had in BfA.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I don't really know. The classes in the shadowlands demo looked exactly like the the specs we had in BfA.
    The "reworked" classes weren't part of the demo as far as I know. That doesn't mean you shouldn't show us at least one example of a reworked spec and how they approach changes / improvements for classes and specs in general (when it comes to gameplay).
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  19. #19
    I feel like part of his job is to hype up events that promote world of warcraft, whether what he's saying to excite people is true or not.
    change can't wait.

  20. #20
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    What exactly is Holinka so proud of when it comes to combat / class design?
    He's proud of the fact that they changed very little from Legion and looking to change very little in Shadowland, thus making a noticeable increase in profits for the shareholders.

    There is no other way to view this that accounts for reality.

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