Kiljaedan and Nathrezim didnt create Frostmourne & Lich King Armor

[HighlordJohnstone]

Your basic NPC protagonist/antagonist hierarchy, pretty much a repeated motif throughout WoW?

Yeah, basically.

[TigTone]

Literally just play the game. Three were sent to control the Scourge on Azeroth. A Dreadlord was Ner’zhul’s jailer.

Stop thinking the Lich King is special. He’s not.

someone provide else provide the info and then I responded with more info regard what made Lich king special. If you care to go back and read.

[Aedrielle]

Bolvar: The new Khadgar, Wrathion, and Illidan.

Sylvanas: The new Garrosh, and Gul'dan.

See what's up here?

Except Sylvanas has such a huge fanbase that Blizzard will never dare make her the new Garrosh & Gul'dan (in the sense that she will die...soon). Both Garrosh and Gul'dan were nuisance for an expansion, and kicked the bucket at the start of the next expansion. If they were to do the same to her, then she needs to die and be gone in the first raid tier at the latest. Just...isn't going to happen really.

[HighlordJohnstone]

Except Sylvanas has such a huge fanbase that Blizzard will never dare make her the new Garrosh & Gul'dan (in the sense that she will die...soon). Both Garrosh and Gul'dan were nuisance for an expansion, and kicked the bucket at the start of the next expansion. If they were to do the same to her, then she needs to die and be gone in the first raid tier at the latest. Just...isn't going to happen really.

Okay, dude, you do realize that guys like Arthas have an even bigger fan base, yes? And yet he still died. Same thing with Gul'dan, and Azshara, and the Legion...

Fan bases mean fuck all towards Blizzard.

[Aucald]

Okay, dude, you do realize that guys like Arthas have an even bigger fan base, yes? And yet he still died. Same thing with Gul'dan, and Azshara, and the Legion...

Fan bases mean fuck all towards Blizzard.

That's not really true, the fans are very important to the developers at Blizzard, but the story has to be told the way it's meant to be told. No author worth his or her salt is going to substantially change their story because of fan outcry over a specific character.

[HighlordJohnstone]

That's not really true, the fans are very important to the developers at Blizzard, but the story has to be told the way it's meant to be told. No author worth his or her salt is going to substantially change their story because of fan outcry over a specific character.

Honestly doesn't matter. Blizzard would be extremely dumb to push for a Sylvanas "redemption arc". This expansion just screams setting up her downfall.

[KainneAbsolute]

Maybe the Dreadlords are related to the Venthyr

[derpkitteh]

imo, it would make sense to me for the nathrezim to have access to the shadowlands.

they were some of the greatest masters of all forms of magic in existence. necromancy is very much within their power to command, and getting into the shadowlands isn't exactly hard even for mortal necromancers, let alone demonic ones.

so nathrezim go to the shadowlands, maldraxxus specifically, and use their forges to make the helm and frostmourne, and they probably made apocalypse there too.

[Aucald]

Honestly doesn't matter. Blizzard would be extremely dumb to push for a Sylvanas "redemption arc". This expansion just screams setting up her downfall.

Oh, I don't disagree with that at all. I'm just saying that Blizzard is going to tell the story they're going to tell, and both the fans of Sylvanas and her detractors don't have much say in it - it will be what it will be. But yes, I'm pretty confident she's being set up for a long (and, personally speaking, quite satisfying) fall.

[bloodmoth13]

Honestly doesn't matter. Blizzard would be extremely dumb to push for a Sylvanas "redemption arc". This expansion just screams setting up her downfall.

Its gonna be redemption dude. Her motives arent world domination, her battle has always been for the shadowlands ever since she killed herself and realised something was wrong there and couldnt die in peace. She doesnt care for life or living. She will defeat her enemy in the shadowlands, 'free' everyones souls and then her job will be complete. Whether she dies afterward (very likely what she would want anywa) ' or is imprisoned (likely by tyrande) she wont care.
Acting like death is punishment for someone who wanted to commit suicide is a little silly. Imprisonment and denying her death would be a significantly bigger punishment for her.

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imo, it would make sense to me for the nathrezim to have access to the shadowlands.

they were some of the greatest masters of all forms of magic in existence. necromancy is very much within their power to command, and getting into the shadowlands isn't exactly hard even for mortal necromancers, let alone demonic ones.

so nathrezim go to the shadowlands, maldraxxus specifically, and use their forges to make the helm and frostmourne, and they probably made apocalypse there too.

Its damn near all but confirmed that they could access the shadowlands. Most dreadlords we meet use necromantic magic instead of fel magic, they are incredibly well attuned to death magic and are vampiric by nature. I always thought the old explanation that 'kill jaedin and the dreadlords forged the most powerful death related artifacts in existence' was an insufficient explanation. What, was it forged in the nether? An area saturated in fel magic?

[HighlordJohnstone]

"Her motives aren't world domination" Pretty sure Sylvanas wants to be a goddess of Death, and conquer everyone and everything, but okay.

[Goldfingaz]

"Her motives aren't world domination" Pretty sure Sylvanas wants to be a goddess of Death, and conquer everyone and everything, but okay.

She wants to dethrone the jailer so when she dies she can be at peace, and she is using us to do so.

You can take that to the bank.

[HighlordJohnstone]

She wants to dethrone the jailer so when she dies she can be at peace, and she is using us to do so.

You can take that to the bank.

He can't die then when she dethrones him. So no, the bank has nothing there.

[Restors]

how do you know that the nathrezim didnt go to the shadowlands to craft the helm of domination and frostmourne??

because demons cant enter the shadowlands. unless blizzard changed their opinion about that matter aswell...

[Goldfingaz]

He can't die then when she dethrones him. So no, the bank has nothing there.

Take. It. To. The. Bank.

Come on, you know he's going to be dethroned and a redeemed Arthas is going to take his place, don't you?

[Kathranis]

because demons cant enter the shadowlands. unless blizzard changed their opinion about that matter aswell...

Nothing says they can't enter it, they just don't go there when they die.

[valky94]

because demons cant enter the shadowlands. unless blizzard changed their opinion about that matter aswell...

just because demons dont go to the shadowlands when they die doesnt mean that they cant inflitrate it

[HighlordJohnstone]

Take. It. To. The. Bank.

Come on, you know he's going to be dethroned and a redeemed Arthas is going to take his place, don't you?

He's the main villain of the Expansion. If anything, she'll be gone before him.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

All necromancy comes from the Shadowlands. Its not significant. The entire point here is that they’re trying to paint the Lich King as unique when he’s not. He’s no different than a Dreadlord.

Except that he was waaaaay better at it than any of the Dreadlords? Even the high ranking Scourge members in WC3 like Arthas and Kel'Thuzad made the Dreadlords look like amateurs when it came to Necromancy. They were outplayed and outsmarted by Arthas and Ner'Zhul on every occasion.

Dreadlords, Necromancers, Liches and DKs all commanded parts of the Scourge, but the only one with the ability to control the entire Scourge was the LK. That's why he was unique.

[Selah]

Admittedly I've been scratching my head with this one. I am excited to see how Blizzard works out the kinks in this one because I do think that as they begin to explain the story of this they're going to begin to unravel the more cosmic forces of the universe in Warcraft. I suspect we started to touch on this with the Remnant of Chaos that dropped in WoD with it being in the possession of Archimonde seeming to suggest that he had managed to travel to the Rift of Aln (and subsequently the Emerald Dream) and snag it. If Archimonde managed that journey, whose to say they couldn't also travel to places like the Shadowlands?