it sounds a lot there will be nothing to do at max öevel

[Krille]

Torgast was described as hardcore content.

unless you gonna claim it will have some sort of "normal mode"

It gets harder and harder? It's definitely not hardcore content. There's obviously a limit for everyone and good/no-life players can reach further in Torghast, doesnt mean theres not an ever-increasing limit for casuals to chase too. Just because it's difficult at the very top doesnt mean nobody else can do it.

[letssee]

i honestly think that the current wow team have forgotten how to mmorpg. unbelivable

[Aeula]

World Quests
Mythic+
Raiding
The usual PvP stuff
Torghast

That seems to be it. Basically BfA but with Torghast replacing islands and warfronts.

[Wyrt]

Torgast was described as hardcore content - they compared it direckly to mage tower which was ignored by majority of playerbase untill last 2 weeks of expansion when people by getting free full unlock on artifact and full raid gear from last tier were finaly able to do some of them by basickly i

unless you gonna claim it will have some sort of "normal mode" for regular people

It's not hardcore content. It's content that gets harder the further into it you go. Bad players will still be able to do Torghast, they just won't be able to get as deep into it as good players.

[Nevcairiel]

I wonder what people really want as max-level content to finally be happy. Because I don't think that exists.

Look at Legion, for example:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Patch content, like zone invasions, Mage Tower, Argus

In BfA:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Disliked features like Islands and Warfronts
- Patch content, like zone invasions, Nazjatar/Mechagon, 8.3 N'Zoth stuff

In Shadowlands:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Thorgast
- Maw??? We don't really know whats going to go on in there, but its not just going to be a zone you go through into Thorgast
- Patch content: ???

Sounds to me like its not any less then previously. Features from BfA that people didn't like got canned, and Thorgast is a new feature they are trying in their place.

So what are people looking for in "content"?
Any one-time story content is done within a week, or its time-gated, which is also hated. Repeated content is boring after a few weeks and a hated "grind". What do you actually want?

For me, Thorgast is actually what I'm looking forward to quite a bit, content-wise. Yes, its repeated grinding content, but the randomness and scaling, and solo possibilities, make me really excited for it.

[Krille]

I wonder what people really want as max-level content to finally be happy. Because I don't think that exists.

Look at Legion, for example:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Patch content, like zone invasions, Mage Tower, Argus

In BfA:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Disliked features like Islands and Warfronts
- Patch content, like zone invasions, Nazjatar/Mechagon, 8.3 N'Zoth stuff

In Shadowlands:
- Baseline features: Raid/M+/WQs/PvP
- One-time Max-Level Campaign
- Thorgast
- Maw??? We don't really know whats going to go on in there, but its not just going to be a zone you go through into Thorgast
- Patch content: ???

Sounds to me like its not any less then previously. Features from BfA that people didn't like got canned, and Thorgast is a new feature they are trying in their place.

So what are people looking for in "content"?
Any one-time story content is done within a week, or its time-gated, which is also hated. Repeated content is boring after a few weeks and a hated "grind". What do you actually want?

Millions of people that want different stuff, it's impossible to get it right.

[Big Thanks]

Torghast to make legendaries

Covenant system and soul link

(this is probably replacing artifact power)

[Lucetia]

people left game and went to plan on Nost.

Glad you have all that completely unbiased accurate data that you are going off of and sharing with others.

[lappee]

There was nothing to do in WoD but raidlog.

There was plenty to do, you just didn't have to do it in order to raid. WoD was superior expansion to Legion and BfA in that regard.

[Reinhart11]

I had high hopes for the advanced A.I. from island expeditions to be implemented in the open world, in questing zones for important mobbs, rares or groups of mobbs etc, so mobbs don't just stand and walk around like they always did.

But either they don't want to use this A.I. anymore or aren't ready for it on an larger scale. But i think that A.I. could make world content on any level more interesting and not so repetitive as it is now.

Especially for the Maw, as it was described that kill squads will actively hunt you, that A.I. would be handy. But maybe we will learn more about it latter and they use it in the Maw and Torghast.

[Nevcairiel]

There was plenty to do, you just didn't have to do it in order to raid. WoD was superior expansion to Legion and BfA in that regard.

And it was inferior if you were actually looking to play the game, because there still was nothing worthwhile to do. Plenty to do sure, but nothing of consequence for your character.

Being able to do meaningful things, and feeling an obligation to do so unfortunately often come together, but personally I prefer to actually be able to play the game I love in a meaningful way, instead of .. well, not, and only show up to raids.

[Blupparen]

Ofc there is nothing to do at max level when there is no ap farm! The whole point of doing wqs, raids, m+ etc. is to increase your artifact level. Now you can only progress by getting rep and better gear. Thats just not enough! /s

[krl]

"There is nothing to do at max level" is objectively untrue. Raiding, M+, Arenas, Cosmetics, collectibles, achievements are all max level activities. With consequences for you character (titles, gear etc). That one does not like the max level activities in WoW is a more honest way to put it.

[grexly75]

Ofc there is nothing to do at max level when there is no ap farm! The whole point of doing wqs, raids, m+ etc. is to increase your artifact level. Now you can only progress by getting rep and better gear. Thats just not enough! /s

The new AP farm for Shadowlands will be the anima and conduit farm for the new Covenant talent trees..

[Dracullus]

It's possible. We had "nothing to do" (I'm not talking about lack of patches, but launch where there were no reason to repeat dungeons or apexis daily) in WoD -> RNG in Legion -> grind in BfA -> maybe "nothing to do" in Shadowlands.

But maybe with mythic+ and new solo dungeon they'll hit sweet spot this time, for sure I'm interested what will be the point of world quests/daily content without AP. We'll see.

[Nathasil]

...

The covenants of SL will be similar to Order-Halls...you will need to do stuff to build them up. I would argue that it was BFA which had nothing to do once you hit max-level. Yes, sure, you could do WQs every day and Island Expeditions. No thanks. I would rather do something that actually VISIBLY progresses my character and his/her agenda in the world. BFA did not do that. It only started to in 8.2.

So just from what we know by know - which is not much - SL will already have more to do at max level than BFA.

[Dakara]

Yea, I don't need... actually, I don't want something to do every single day at Max level. That's half the problem with WOW these days, it's become a chore. It's ok if you don't play WOW every single day.

[Gorsameth]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

So.. the only reason your playing WoW is to endlessly grind AP and without it you would be to bored?
Well, sucks to be you then but most people don't seem to enjoy semi-forced endless grind content.

because aside from that Shadowlands looks to have just as much to end at the endgame as BfA.

- - - Updated - - -

Yea, I don't need... actually, I don't want something to do every single day at Max level. That's half the problem with WOW these days, it's become a chore. It's ok if you don't play WOW every single day.

obligatory

[erifwodahs]

why do you even play WoW? there has been nothing to do for last 5 expansions it seems...

[Nite92]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

I think they meant it differently.

There will be multiple means to an end. In BFA that would compare to, need 2 Neck lvls? You can farm either M+ or Island, without one taking 3 times longer.