Migrants easily cut through Trump's wall with a $100 saw

[Malaky]

Ok, back up your hypothetical then because demanding evidence of mine without offering any evidence of yours implies there's merit to yours.

....Do you know what a hypothetical is?
Here, let me make it another: assuming humans will be able to colonize Vega, water will become a highly priced commodity there.
I don't need to back up anything, because this is a hypothesis.

You, howered, said the wall is pointless, which is a statement of fact.
I'm merely asking you to back that up.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, and we're supposed to blame immigrants for intentional moves on behalf of a company?

No, but we're supposed to acknowledge the reality of the system and plan ahead to address its shortcomings instead of weeping and burying the head into the sand.

Having a mass influx of unskilled cheap labour will by no means make things better, only worse, as companies will be able to hire people desperate to work for less and less so long they get something.

[zenkai]

Jesus christ.....

Why did you choose to quote and highlight.....the opinion when asked for a study?

Did you not bother to read or understand, you have yet to offer any rebuttal to the facts stated to you. Swearing doesn't make you right.

[Skroe]

For the love of god, Skroe.
Why.
You were actually being interestingly convincing and getting me to listen to you... until that bs part about "the monument to White Supremacy".

Because that is what it's been from the get go. If you think a border wall as Trump and his cult is either functionally, politically or philosophically in this country's best interests, then you're dreaming. It's been discredited from every angle. But most of all, to me, that's what the wall has always been. I called it a monument to White Supremacy as early as 2016. Because that's what it is. A symbol from the Trump Administration to his White base that he is keeping the brown people out.

But let's be clear about something. I'm about 2 years past reasoning with Trump supporters and Trump policy supporting "independent voters" *snort* about why their ideas are bad. We've had dozens of threads, thousands of posts on the topic. It's been covered in books, by experts, in research, in media, and so forth.

There is no convincing to be done. There is standing on top of the broken ruin of their so-called ideas and celebrating my side's victory.

So you can believe what I wrote, or not. It's irrelevant. We won. You lost. Game over. Trump is never getting his wall. And the next Democratic President will demolish much of these border fences just to make a point.

Then I realized: "Ah okay, it's just the usual derangement racist everywhere right=white supremacy" insanity.

Why. Stop hitting yourselves with this, stick with reality. You had me going for a while.

I have been fighting against Trump IRL since 2017 (aside from my job as a software engineer at a robotics firm, I moonlight 3 days a week at a non-Partisan anti-Trump PAC). It's not "derangement". It's principled opposition. This is what a political assault looks like. Namely American principles versus those who cloak their un-American prejudice and paranoia under a veneer of "security".

But we're beating them too.

If I sound satisfied Malaky, it's because I am. I am very very pleased with myself right now. It's because I am here, in late 2019 with Trump at the brink of impeachment, Democrats are on a string of electoral victories that bode well for 2020, hundreds of Republicans forced out of Congress since 2016, and most of Trump's policies - most importantly the wall - having been utterly defeated.

We've won. Trump may beat impeachment. He may not. He may win re-election. He may not. It's almost besides the point other than picking a day at which to draw this shambolic Administration to its long overdue close. But functionally, a President's most productive years are always the first two of his first term, and that's long since over.

You and he not getting the wall. Not now. And not ever. And I just want you to know, how very pleased that makes me.

[Malaky]

What can I say?

*tip*

[Orbitus]

Welp, better have open borders and hand out welfare to anyone who shows up I guess.... or beef up border security.

- - - Updated - - -



Migrants being good or bad people individually doesn't merit some right to be resettled in whatever country they want.

You do realize, that most of the people that come here illegally, come by plane right? That flies over invisible borders, walls and oceans, Right?

[Theodarzna]

You do realize, that most of the people that come here illegally, come by plane right? That flies over invisible borders, walls and oceans, Right?

So we need to beef up ICE? Glad you are on board.

[Orbitus]

So we need to beef up ICE? Glad you are on board.

Nope. We need to abolish ICE. But putting a useless wall on the border, isn't going to slow down illegal immigration.

[Theodarzna]

Nope. We need to abolish ICE. But putting a useless wall on the border, isn't going to slow down illegal immigration.

Ah, so no barriers, and nobody to throw people out who don't belong. So, Open Borders then?

[Kaleredar]

Resources are limited, by definition.
Just because there isn't a big scarcity today doesn't mean you won't get to that point if you keep spending and giving away recklessly, it's already happened.
A fridge that is plentyful today isn't gonna last long if everyone comes raiding it without accountability.

When the US manage to acquire infinite resources I'll reconsider my position. Until then, the answer is no. Borders are a necessity.

If only incoming immigrants would mean an increase in the labor force and an increase in taxes paid.

Oh, wait, that's exactly what that means.

And wherever those people live, US or otherwise, they're consuming resources anyway.

Because as I already explained more than once that doesn't address the essence of the problem. You can't open your house to everyone freely, it's just gonna turn into a mess.

But there's no statistics supporting the notion that it would become "a mess."

[Orbitus]

Ah, so no barriers, and nobody to throw people out who don't belong. So, Open Borders then?

Nope the barriers that we have now, are fine. You really do like putting words in peoples mouths. And the CBP is fine, we don't need the Gestapo of ICE doing illegal raids on people, sweeping up US citizens that aren't allowed to talk to anyone for almost a month, with no shower, no toiletries and no bed to sleep in.

[Edge-]

Ah, so no barriers, and nobody to throw people out who don't belong. So, Open Borders then?

Whatever did the US do before ICE was created in 2003?

[Theodarzna]

Nope the barriers that we have now, are fine. You really do like putting words in peoples mouths. And the CBP is fine, we don't need the Gestapo of ICE doing illegal raids on people, sweeping up US citizens that aren't allowed to talk to anyone for almost a month, with no shower, no toiletries and no bed to sleep in.

I'd say they aren't given how easily they are crossed. So we need to beef up CBP to comb the country and throw them out?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Don't let Theo put words in your mouth or be her usual hypocritical self that constantly contradicts her own words. We're not open borders, we don't need ICE or a wall, our system before was fine. Anyone who's for the concentration camps the Trump admin is running is a fucking fascist.

Our border security for a 2000 mile wall was fine as it was, unless you want to blow a bigger hole in the budget to capture 500 more migrants that the additional personnel MIGHT catch.

[Orbitus]

I'd say they aren't given how easily they are crossed. So we need to beef up CBP to comb the country and throw them out?

The only places they are crossing that are "easy" are the places that most of them die because of starvation and dehydration.

Yeah, keep having fun putting words in my mouth.

[Theodarzna]

The only places they are crossing that are "easy" are the places that most of them die because of starvation and dehydration.

Yeah, keep having fun putting words in my mouth.

Well I am just curious if we should or should not restrict migration into the country. I clearly say, eh, Its not a universal good. I don't believe a country is a shopping mall and job fair.

Since the 1960's and various changes to the laws, that has essentially been what it has been. An ever increasing free for all.

[Orbitus]

Well I am just curious if we should or should not restrict migration into the country. I clearly say, eh, Its not a universal good. I don't believe a country is a shopping mall and job fair.

Since the 1960's and various changes to the laws, that has essentially been what it has been. An ever increasing free for all.

Yeah, we know, your guy Trump has been using illegals in just about every property he has ever ran in the United States. Mar-A-Lago, hiring illegals to build his buildings, then trying to stiff them out of pay, and being sued into paying them.

[Theodarzna]

Yeah, we know, your guy Trump has been using illegals in just about every property he has ever ran in the United States. Mar-A-Lago, hiring illegals to build his buildings, then trying to stiff them out of pay, and being sued into paying them.

Oh no!!! Trumps a bad hypocrite? Welp, better have Open Borders. *shrug*

What are you expecting from telling me that?

[Orbitus]

Oh no!!! Trumps a bad hypocrite? Welp, better have Open Borders. *shrug*

What are you expecting from telling me that?

It is cute that you are still trying with this bullshit goalpost movement.

[Theodarzna]

It is cute that you are still trying with this bullshit goalpost movement.

Not really, I am curious why pointing out Trumps fault changes my position on immigration and borders?

[Malaky]

If only incoming immigrants would mean an increase in the labor force and an increase in taxes paid.

This would only be correct if the increase in labor force would be equal amongst all types of workforce, but that's not the case.

But there's no statistics supporting the notion that it would become "a mess."

Try it.
Keep your door open for everyone and put a sign "Everyone comes in! No worries! Enjoy my house!"

See how long it takes.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope the barriers that we have now, are fine. You really do like putting words in peoples mouths. And the CBP is fine, we don't need the Gestapo of ICE doing illegal raids on people, sweeping up US citizens that aren't allowed to talk to anyone for almost a month, with no shower, no toiletries and no bed to sleep in.

You've been lied to if you believe this is what happens. Hard.